Zach Hyman A.K.A Babcock's Son Appreciation Thread

[ErnieLeafs]

I don't think anyone hates him, per say, they just hate his role in the line up currently. I mean he'd be universally loved if he was on the fourth line, maybe third line.

Ideally, the Leafs could upgrade a with a similar player that has more skill but Hyman has produce well enough to show he's not a complete liability. He's not the biggest issue despite the fact that they could do better.

While I agree, I still think it’s overdone at times. He plays hard, and plays the right way. Where he’s slotted isn’t ideal, but the job he does is never out of place on a line. Digging and forechecking is good for any line.

 

[BertCorbeau]

This misunderstanding gets verbalized a lot yet the debates still rages.

The debate of him belonging in the top 6 or not?

 

[Ratboy]

Guy is scoring at 105 point pace so far -- 18P in 14GP, tied for 8th in the league... It's crazy to think that Marner might actually not make the All-Star team.

Yeah I could see a time where we could legitamitely have 3-4, maybe even 5 players in the All-Star game, but it won't happen. I'm not sure if there's a limit per team, but when it was held in Montreal a few years back there were like 5 habs there and that was a f***ing joke.

 

[Ratboy]

Having top 6 hands isn't the only requirement to get into the top 6. Especially when he's not the offensive driving force on the line.

I know what you're saying and he does his role well, except for the fact that he really has stone hands in close. I mean the guy has trouble buying garbage goals which is something a player in his role should do pretty easily.

I look at him as sort of a placeholder right now. He's the only player who can do what he does, but at some point we'll find another with better hands and we can slot this guy on the 3rd line with PK duty and everyone will be happy.

 

[DarkKnight]

Wasn't it reported that Matthews asked for him to be taken off his line in his summer meeting with Babs?

I always thought that stuff was pure bullshit.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

If we're looking for a guy with great hands who's a natural on the 1st line, we should trade him and get JVR back.

Nobody ever criticized that guy's hands....

 

[meefer]

Heck of an appreciation thread we got going here

 

[BertCorbeau]

If we're looking for a guy with great hands who's a natural on the 1st line, we should trade him and get JVR back.

Nobody ever criticized that guy's hands....

Touché sir

 

[ACC1224]

If we're looking for a guy with great hands who's a natural on the 1st line, we should trade him and get JVR back.

Nobody ever criticized that guy's hands....

Not his hands but the rest of his game left a lot to be desired.
At a 3rd of the price(or is it more?), Hyman brings much more, minus the hands.

 

[Liminality]

I know what you're saying and he does his role well, except for the fact that he really has stone hands in close. I mean the guy has trouble buying garbage goals which is something a player in his role should do pretty easily.

I look at him as sort of a placeholder right now. He's the only player who can do what he does, but at some point we'll find another with better hands and we can slot this guy on the 3rd line with PK duty and everyone will be happy.

If we do find a player who is Hyman but with better hands, we're going to probably have to pay a lot for him. Maybe since he works and we're already closer to the cap, they'll keep him there and use that cap space somewhere else. I'd be fine with that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If we do find a player who is Hyman but with better hands, we're going to probably have to pay a lot for him. Maybe since he works and we're already closer to the cap, they'll keep him there and use that cap space somewhere else. I'd be fine with that.

Haha yeah, see the 11M Tavares exhibit. Not exactly the same thing but close enough. We already have our Tavares and we need our Hyman too. Really happy to have Hyman on our team, kids a beauty.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Hyman is the kind of guy this fan base has always loved in the past. Not sure why people hate on him. Solid, effective, and 100% effort.

Tucker and Roberts had way more talent and the Leafs haven't had anyone like that in years.

 

[hockeywiz542]

“It’s weird,” he continued. “You do the same thing over and over and over again and as long as you’re getting your chances you know that eventually they’re gonna go in. That’s kind of the mentality. But at the same time, it’s frustrating when they don’t — especially when you’re sitting on nothing, it can weigh on you a little bit.”

In light of that first goal, it’s worth wondering how much room, if any, there is for Hyman to still grow offensively. His 38 even-strength points last season sat just inside the top 90 for forwards — one more than more Ryan Johansen and Logan Couture and two more than Nazem Kadri and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins — and he was just a bit outside the top 100 (among forwards to play at least 800 minutes) when it came to 5-on-5 point production per 60 minutes (1.9).

More surprising is that Hyman was actually inside the top 50 in primary 5-on-5 assists per 60 (0.83) and somehow topped the likes of Taylor Hall, Mitch Marner, and Jack Eichel. And he had more total 5-on-5 assists per 60 (1.15) than Jeff Skinner, Gabriel Landeskog and T.J. Oshie. Hyman is obviously inferior to those players offensively, but it does suggest that, contrary to how it sometimes looks, Hyman is good in his own rough and ragged way at helping the Leafs score.

“For me, it’s always been a comfort thing,” said Hyman, who had 28 points as a rookie. “I’m going to bring that same work ethic every game, but once you start to get more comfortable and more patient you can do more things. You’re more comfortable around the net. You’re more comfortable with the puck — you’re not rushed. And then you’re shooting to score rather than just shooting it. I think that those things happen in time."

“Hopefully I can just continue to progress.”

 

[LeafGrief]

If we do find a player who is Hyman but with better hands, we're going to probably have to pay a lot for him. Maybe since he works and we're already closer to the cap, they'll keep him there and use that cap space somewhere else. I'd be fine with that.

Hyman with better hands and any vision whatsoever would be an All-Star winger. His skating and drive train are very effective, if he had high level offensive talents to match he would be unstoppable. He doesn't score a whole lot, but he still creates goals using his guts and his feet. His goal against Boston in the playoffs is a great example of what he does. He's better suited to the third line, but I've really come to appreciate what he brings to the top6. He's an effective hockey player and there's zero complaints with his contract.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I think everyone understands that he is good at the role he plays. He's very good on the forecheck, and often occupies two defenders down low, freeing up space, etc.

That said, there are many people, me included, who think you simply need to contribute more offense than he does when playing with the types of players Hyman does.

But if you do get a guy who will get the 60+ points we want, we're going to have to pay for that. If Hyman can help top players the way he does, can give 40 pts, without PP time, while making 2 million dollars, that's pretty damn good mileage on cap space.

 

[Mr Hockey]

People on here think we have a boat load of top 6 guys, how come all these better options are not scoring with Kadri or on the 4th line? who are these options people talk about is it Levio, Johnsson, ennis, etc?

 

[Crease Master]

The only people who rag on Hyman are dumb kids who play lots of EA hockey and have never played actual hockey. They have their little fantasy rosters and do the math, according to their calculations a guy with a better shooting percentage will automatically result in more offense for a line. They don't factor in how many more puck battles are lost per shift to have that guy with better hands, which of course results in lower possession and gasp! fewer shots! They don't factor in how that lower possession results in more goals against and likely increased penalties because that line is trying to get the puck back more often than before. Their simple minds aren't capable of seeing the complete picture, they see one play where Hyman doesn't bury a chance (created by his hard work) and they talk about Hyman's hands of stone. Its such a childish and simple minded view, it's best not to engage the anti Hyman crowd in discussions about it because that's a clear violation of their safe space policy. Questioning their crap logic could trigger them, whatever that means.

 

[Muston Atthews]

The only people who rag on Hyman are dumb kids who play lots of EA hockey and have never played actual hockey. They have their little fantasy rosters and do the math, according to their calculations a guy with a better shooting percentage will automatically result in more offense for a line. They don't factor in how many more puck battles are lost per shift to have that guy with better hands, which of course results in lower possession and gasp! fewer shots! They don't factor in how that lower possession results in more goals against and likely increased penalties because that line is trying to get the puck back more often than before. Their simple minds aren't capable of seeing the complete picture, they see one play where Hyman doesn't bury a chance (created by his hard work) and they talk about Hyman's hands of stone. Its such a childish and simple minded view, it's best not to engage the anti Hyman crowd in discussions about it because that's a clear violation of their safe space policy. Questioning their crap logic could trigger them, whatever that means.

Paragraphs help. I tried to decipher the wall of text there but:

You can understand that Hyman is probably the hardest working Maple Leaf most nights and wins more than his fair share of puck battles. You can also understand that he has terrible puck skills and probably does not belong on lines with premier players like Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander while we are generating little offense or trailing in a game.

Life doesn’t have to be so black and white

 

[666]

People on here think we have a boat load of top 6 guys, how come all these better options are not scoring with Kadri or on the 4th line? who are these options people talk about is it Levio, Johnsson, ennis, etc?

The point is that Hyman isn't scoring as expected like a top liner so let's give some of these other plugs a chance for more than a few games.
Also if Hymans is so good let's see if he can do anything on the 3rd or 4th line.
It's truly remarkable that a guy with stone hands and zero vision has been allowed to play on a top line for 3 years.

 

[Muston Atthews]

People on here think we have a boat load of top 6 guys, how come all these better options are not scoring with Kadri or on the 4th line? who are these options people talk about is it Levio, Johnsson, ennis, etc?

This is exactly what people were saying about Kapanen and then he got his shot and look what happened.

 

[Crease Master]

Paragraphs help. I tried to decipher the wall of text there but:

You can understand that Hyman is probably the hardest working Maple Leaf most nights and wins more than his fair share of puck battles. You can also understand that he has terrible puck skills and probably does not belong on lines with premier players like Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander while we are generating little offense or trailing in a game.

Life doesn’t have to be so black and white

Yeah, I forgot reading is a challenge for them too. It has to be millennial formatted so it can be easily digested, my apologies junior. Hyman clearly has the skills to play on the top line, he doesn't have the skills to satisfy the ignorant.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Yeah, I forgot reading is a challenge for them too. It has to be millennial formatted so it can be easily digested, my apologies junior. Hyman clearly has the skills to play on the top line, he doesn't have the skills to satisfy the ignorant.

Mjllennial formatted? People have been using paragraphs for a looooooong time man

It is harder to read a block of text on a cellphone than it is broken up paragraphs. I see you’re just having a tantrum about young folks so carry on, I’ll get off your lawn

 

[Mr Hockey]

The point is that Hyman isn't scoring as expected like a top liner so let's give some of these other plugs a chance for more than a few games.
Also if Hymans is so good let's see if he can do anything on the 3rd or 4th line.
It's truly remarkable that a guy with stone hands and zero vision has been allowed to play on a top line for 3 years.

From what i see, Babcocks coaching systems needs just 2 skilled forwards on his #1,2 lines ... He gets the extra offence from the D'men pushing forward (Rielly, Gardiner) this allows Babcock to have more depth down the lineup. You need to understand Babcocks coach's systems, structure, etc.

NHL coaching is not as easy as just putting the guys with the best hands on a line and telling them to just win. lol

If you give 30 nhl coaches all the same players do you actually think you will get the same lineup with all the coaches? they all have there own coaching philosophy on how to win.

i also follow Babcocks interviews on the Leafs youtube channel, he is pretty chatty and knows his shit

 

[Crease Master]

Mjllennial formatted? People have been using paragraphs for a looooooong time man

It is harder to read a block of text on a cellphone than it is broken up paragraphs. I see you’re just having a tantrum about young folks so carry on, I’ll get off your lawn

Yes but complaining about their proper use in an internet forum is exclusively millennial territory. Its a tactic used to deflect attention from the salient points being made so they don't have to be addressed. You don't have to give any credit to what I'm saying about Hyman's place on a top line because I didn't put in a paragraph break. Now once again you don't make any mention of the many points I made in my wall of text, you're going to run away and pretend I'm an angry grampa. That's cool, I know your generation doesn't do confrontation because they aren't good at it. Its what I would expect. Go ask your councilor at school how to deal with fact shaming or something.

 

[DoobieDubas]

From what i see, Babcocks coaching systems needs just 2 skilled forwards on his #1,2 lines ... He gets the extra offence from the D'men pushing forward (Rielly, Gardiner) this allows Babcock to have more depth down the lineup. You need to understand Babcocks coach's systems, structure, etc.

NHL coaching is not as easy as just putting the guys with the best hands on a line and telling them to just win. lol

If you give 30 nhl coaches all the same players do you actually think you will get the same lineup with all the coaches? they all have there own coaching philosophy on how to win.

i also follow Babcocks interviews on the Leafs youtube channel, he is pretty chatty and knows his ****

Babcock's thought process isn't that hard to understand.

His goal is to spread our talent over the roster instead of stacking talent within the roster. Also he rolls with pairs and a complimentary player to the pairs in regards to forward lines.

Even defence he spreads our best 3 defense out. Reilly gardiner dermott all play different pairs so that at least one is on at all times.