Speculation: Yzerman's first move.

[Zetterbeer]

How do you know Cholowski is expendable? And how do you know Trouba's plan isn't to sign with Detroit as a UFA?

I'm not going to imagine like I can see the future, no one knows what's going to happen. The reality is that 30 other teams have the option to trade for him, show him why he should sign there and then put 60 million only a signature away. As a betting man, the odds he makes it through to FA and signs here are not high, so why not improve your odds drastically by trading for him?

Honestly nothing would make me happier than him signing here and giving up no assets, but the odds are not in our favour.

 

[vladdy16]

You can't go out looking for a #1 dman and only be offering spare parts in return. It's just not realistic. That's way too low, and someone will pay more than that. AA or Mantha will almost have to go the other way because we're not giving up a 1st. Winnipeg will want value for the value they're losing.



What do you think will be the next opportunity? And why do you think it'll be cheaper than getting Trouba?

I personally think compared to this thread, people will be kinda shocked at how simple the return for Trouba ends up being. WPG doesnt have a ton of leverage unless they can get a bidding war going, and that depends on a lot of teams valueing Trouba highly and equally.

As for alternatives to Trouba, keep in mind I see him as a well rounded #2-4 and not at all a boneafide #1.

The appeal to having someone like him this year is pretty high, because I think guys like 52, 65, Daley, bowey etc, really handicap the top 4, by being serviceable but one dimensional, which makes it a lot harder for the coach to work a kid into those pairings.

So if we get outbid, or talks go cold, i'd say we have a lot of ammunition on draft day to try and dig up a guy to play a more modern style, and give him the opportunity that we're pretending to give Bowey.

Beyond that, over the next couple years I'm happy enough with our past draft record to expect a surplus at forward, as we find out who we're going with beyond 71 and 59 up front, and unload either guys like AA/Mantha or Ras/Zadina to round out the top 4. (I'm not there yet, but expecting by the end of summer to feel pretty darn confident that 17 and 21 will have a lengthy run in our top 4)

And then further beyond that, all the old contracts are off the books, so a good GM should be able to convert that into a solid top 4 guy.

I'm not saying that guys like Trouba are available all the time these days, but I lean towards standing pat compared to trading a 1st pair package for a guy who I'm worried is hitting his ceiling as either shotgun on the top pair, or great 2nd pair.

Tyler Myers is a UFA btw. He has as much untapped potential as Trouba imo. It's not that cornerstone #1 everyone is looking for, but theres only like 10-20 of those at any given time, and I rank Cholowskis odds of getting there ahead of Trouba, and if pressed it's easier for me to see Myers actually turning into the next Chara, than it is for me to see Trouba being more than the next Brad Stuart.

All that said I love player combos that act as multipliers, and if the Red Wings see Troubas shot blocking and hitting skills as a perfect long term combo with Cholowski or something like that, I would happily re-evaluate my nerfed impressions of Troubas potential and value.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I personally think compared to this thread, people will be kinda shocked at how simple the return for Trouba ends up being. WPG doesnt have a ton of leverage unless they can get a bidding war going, and that depends on a lot of teams valueing Trouba highly and equally.

As for alternatives to Trouba, keep in mind I see him as a well rounded #3-4 and not at all a boneafide #1.

The appeal to having someone like him this year is pretty high, because I think guys like 52, 65, Daley, bowey etc, really handicap the top 4, by being serviceable but one dimensional, which makes it a lot harder for the coach to work a kid into those pairings.

So if we get outbid, or talks go cold, i'd say we have a lot of ammunition on draft day to try and dig up a guy to play a more modern style, and give him the opportunity that we're pretending to give Bowey.

Beyond that, over the next couple years I'm happy enough with our past draft record to expect a surplus at forward, as we find out who we're going with beyond 71 and 59 up front, and unload either guys like AA/Mantha or Ras/Zadina to round out the top 4. (I'm not there yet, but expecting by the end of summer to feel pretty darn confident that 17 and 21 will have a lengthy run in our top 4)

And then further beyond that, all the old contracts are off the books, so a good GM should be able to convert that into a solid top 4 guy.

I'm not saying that guys like Trouba are available all the time these days, but I lean towards standing pat compared to trading a 1st pair package for a guy who I'm worried is hitting his ceiling on the 2nd pair.

Tyler Myers is a UFA btw. He has as much untapped potential as Trouba imo. It's not that cornerstone #1 everyone is looking for, but theres only like 10-20 of those at any given time, and I rank Cholowskis odds of getting there ahead of Trouba, and if pressed it's easier for me to see Myers actually turning into the next Chara, than it is for me to see Trouba being more than the next Brad Stuart.

Jacob Trouba is a shutdown D-man that just scored 50 points. He is absolutely a #1 in this league right now. Buff has just been taking his PP1 time. But man he is at worst a spectacular #2, I don't get how anyone can call Trouba a second pairing D-man. He plays big heavy minutes with a lot of bite in his game, I think most underselling him in this thread would realize pretty quickly how good he is by mid-season next year after watching him night in and night out if we are lucky enough to get him. He is a Team USA guy if we go to the Olympics in China. Him, Jones and Carlson would make up the right side of the defense. He is that good.

 

[vladdy16]

I'm barely disputing that. And I may be speaking too loosely, because by #1 d-man, I dont mean top 30 d-man. I mean the #1 d-man on a championship calibur team.

So if you lined Trouba up with the true championship calibur no.1's currently or through history, I would say that Trouba's explosiveness and lateral/diagonal mobility would be a tick below, and his ability to distribute the puck on the move through the neutral zone instead of station to station is a concern to me when talking about slotting guys in permanently for championship runs.

Brad Stuart was a 3rd oa pick, that was capable of putting up impressive hit and block totals, and hovering near the 50 pt mark. Would I trade blue chips or 39/72 for Brad Stuart? It's definitely worth thinking about.

Really not trying to ruin the fun or develop an obscure hottake. As a casual Jets observer just want to stick to my $.02 as I think there are mitigating factors to Troubas great statistical year that dont neccesarrily imply that his age 25 year has catapulted him to guaranteed elite status.

Or in other words, I dont disagree that he's at the top of his class, I just think the class that follows (heiskanen etc) is more dynamic and may marginalize the impact of the slightly less fluid d-men that preceeded them.

I think I'm way less opposed to an aggressive package for Trouba than it's coming off. And there are plenty of things that I can imagine hearing from our front office in the wake of a trade for Trouba that would make me a huge fan of almost any deal that doesnt involve Cholowski.

 

[obey86]

I think with Trouba on your top pair and Hronek on your second pair finding the left side is easier to accomplish. There are after all more left handed D-man to go around.

I am not saying it fixes it this year, obviously DK would be a beneficiary of a very good partner in this scenario. Yes ideally soon Cholowski (assuming he isn't dealt to Winnipeg for Trouba) and McIsaac would be ready to make some progress. We need help in a lot of areas to get back to where we want to be. I want stars and Trouba is a star, so I will take him and nail down the left side later if that makes sense.

I am not sure Mike Green is even going to play hockey next year. If he does it should be his last year in Detroit if we go out and get Trouba. So I am not overly concerned with the vets entering their last year of their deal. I would like to get some assets at the trade deadline. I think what we do with our blueline and how Yzerman builds on that cannot really factor in some of those issues this year.

Red Wings have said he's expected to be ready to start the season

 

[lilidk]

Red Wings have said he's expected to be ready to start the season

Still means nothing.

 

[obey86]

Still means nothing.

Yeah, the Red Wings saying Mike Green is going to be ready to start the season means nothing in a conversation about "Is Mike Green even going to play next year?"

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yeah, the Red Wings saying Mike Green is going to be ready to start the season means nothing in a conversation about "Is Mike Green even going to play next year?"

I'm sure they didn't expect him to hurt his back two years ago, or get a virus to start last year, or to have that virus return at the end of last year. They can spin whatever words they want, until he is laced up and playing for multiple games, nothing should be assumed.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Come on man, how is giving away expendable assets to fill our biggest need considered fear? That's what smart GM's do, it's common sense.

Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
Mathew Barzal for Griffin Reinhart

New GM came in, panicked and listened to those who said the team couldn't draft and develop dmen, had too many young wingers and so should right now, yesterday even, trade picks and young wingers away for a former 4thOA and a prospect.

Nobody anywhere today dosent call those moves 2 of the worst ever made in the game.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
Mathew Barzal for Griffin Reinhart

New GM came in, panicked and listened to those who said the team couldn't draft and develop dmen, had too many young wingers and so should right now, yesterday even, trade picks and young wingers away for a former 4thOA and a prospect.

Nobody anywhere today dosent call those moves 2 of the worst ever made in the game.

I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone talk about the Griffin Reinhart trade....at all. Ever. You are using hindsight, pretending that Barzal was a known value, and thus was a mistake. You don't know what Edmonton decides to do at 16 that year. They could have picked Evgeny Svechnikov for all you know.

The Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson deal was bad of the jump, but you are comparing apples to oranges. Taylor Hall is Jacob Trouba in this iteration; you are comparing position to position which is not remotely close to being accurate. Hall's return was down because Edmonton was punting on their relationship, which had grown stale. Larsson was never going to meet the value of Hall, as long as Hall was playing to his potential (which he has). Same goes for this trade, but Trouba is Hall. If we give up Athanasiou and a second round draft pick, or Dennis Cholowski, it's going to be more level than Hall-Larsson, but if Trouba comes in and plays to his potential, it's still a trade that is going to favor the Wings. If you take position out of consideration, Trouba is a fantastic player, and all we want to give up is quality players.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah, the Red Wings saying Mike Green is going to be ready to start the season means nothing in a conversation about "Is Mike Green even going to play next year?"

They also refuse to admit what virus he actually has. They have been kind of vague about the whole ordeal, but it returning isn't a small thing for me, especially without confirmation of what it is and why we shouldn't expect it to return a third time. We have speculated about what liver attacking virus this could be given no outright statement on it and most of them were troubling. I hope he is healthy first and foremost, I just am not counting on him until we can see him get through training camp without a set back.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone talk about the Griffin Reinhart trade....at all. Ever. You are using hindsight, pretending that Barzal was a known value, and thus was a mistake. You don't know what Edmonton decides to do at 16 that year. They could have picked Evgeny Svechnikov for all you know.

The Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson deal was bad of the jump, but you are comparing apples to oranges. Taylor Hall is Jacob Trouba in this iteration; you are comparing position to position which is not remotely close to being accurate. Hall's return was down because Edmonton was punting on their relationship, which had grown stale. Larsson was never going to meet the value of Hall, as long as Hall was playing to his potential (which he has). Same goes for this trade, but Trouba is Hall. If we give up Athanasiou and a second round draft pick, or Dennis Cholowski, it's going to be more level than Hall-Larsson, but if Trouba comes in and plays to his potential, it's still a trade that is going to favor the Wings. If you take position out of consideration, Trouba is a fantastic player, and all we want to give up is quality players.

I think you're simply biased towards Trouba and can not possibly see any alternative to or opinion against trading assets for him right away

 

[Ezekial]

I'm sure they didn't expect him to hurt his back two years ago, or get a virus to start last year, or to have that virus return at the end of last year. They can spin whatever words they want, until he is laced up and playing for multiple games, nothing should be assumed.

So should we not expect any players to be ready to start the year because any of them could die in a car accident at any time?
We expect him to be with the team to start the year.

 

[Richard Gibson]

Mike Milbury trades

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I think you're simply biased towards Trouba and can not possibly see any alternative to or opinion against trading assets for him right away

I mean, Hall for Larsson WAS bad at the jump. It was a terrible trade from the moment they agreed on it. And if you're using that as a barometer, congrats! The Wings can't possibly match the deal because they don't have anyone as valuable as Hall. Or if they do, it's Dylan Larkin who they aren't trading for Trouba.

Basically though, if someone wants Trouba, the smart move is to deal assets for him now, because his trade value as a top pairing D is depressed because Winnipeg has a good core of D and Trouba has been giving them contract headaches. You can certainly hope to sign him at 2020, but this is kind of like the awesome car you found on the used car lot. You could buy it now and ensure that you get it, or take your chances leaving it for a while to hope that anyone else who is looking at it also doesn't jump on it.

It's fine if you don't want to give assets up for Trouba. That's perfectly okay. He's not a bonafide stud on the top pairing. But if that is your position, you should not be upset in 2020 when he goes elsewhere. You have the chance to get him now and likely at a depressed value for the player he is.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

They also refuse to admit what virus he actually has. They have been kind of vague about the whole ordeal, but it returning isn't a small thing for me, especially without confirmation of what it is and why we shouldn't expect it to return a third time. We have speculated about what liver attacking virus this could be given no outright statement on it and most of them were troubling. I hope he is healthy first and foremost, I just am not counting on him until we can see him get through training camp without a set back.

Is there an actual need to be specific? He's got a virus. It's kept him out of games, but he should be ready for 19-20.

 

[obey86]

I'm sure they didn't expect him to hurt his back two years ago, or get a virus to start last year, or to have that virus return at the end of last year. They can spin whatever words they want, until he is laced up and playing for multiple games, nothing should be assumed.

I'm sure they have been following his condition throughout the offseason and have a good handle on the likelihood of recovery. Nobody is correct 100% of the time, but i'm sure the medical professionals understand his prognosis, certainly better than you or I speculating baselessly on a message board.

Using your logic we can't assume Dylan Larkin will play at all next season either. I mean, as you said, he could hurt his back like Green did two years ago and Larkin did hurt his back last year actually. So no point in penciling him into the lineup.

 

[obey86]

They also refuse to admit what virus he actually has. They have been kind of vague about the whole ordeal, but it returning isn't a small thing for me, especially without confirmation of what it is and why we shouldn't expect it to return a third time. We have speculated about what liver attacking virus this could be given no outright statement on it and most of them were troubling. I hope he is healthy first and foremost, I just am not counting on him until we can see him get through training camp without a set back.

The Red Wings have no incentive to lie to the fans/press about if they believe Green will be back or not next year.

No doctor is ever 100% correct all the time obviously, but they probably have a good idea of what's happening and the likelihood of being ready, certainly better than you or I do.

 

[obey86]

They also refuse to admit what virus he actually has. They have been kind of vague about the whole ordeal, but it returning isn't a small thing for me, especially without confirmation of what it is and why we shouldn't expect it to return a third time. We have speculated about what liver attacking virus this could be given no outright statement on it and most of them were troubling. I hope he is healthy first and foremost, I just am not counting on him until we can see him get through training camp without a set back.

Are you a medical professional? Serious question. Do you have access to his medical records/history? Not a serious question.

Not sure how you knowing the virus name would change anything when the actual medical professionals with access to his medical history are telling the Red Wings he will be ready for the season. Doctors are wrong sometimes of course, but the Red Wings's words (via what they hear from the doctors) have infinitely more credibility to them than your baseless speculation/interpretation.

No offense, but even if you knew what type of virus it was you still aren't informed enough to make a credible statement that he won't be ready, when the medical professionals are saying he will be.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I mean, Hall for Larsson WAS bad at the jump. It was a terrible trade from the moment they agreed on it. And if you're using that as a barometer, congrats! The Wings can't possibly match the deal because they don't have anyone as valuable as Hall. Or if they do, it's Dylan Larkin who they aren't trading for Trouba.

Basically though, if someone wants Trouba, the smart move is to deal assets for him now, because his trade value as a top pairing D is depressed because Winnipeg has a good core of D and Trouba has been giving them contract headaches. You can certainly hope to sign him at 2020, but this is kind of like the awesome car you found on the used car lot. You could buy it now and ensure that you get it, or take your chances leaving it for a while to hope that anyone else who is looking at it also doesn't jump on it.

It's fine if you don't want to give assets up for Trouba. That's perfectly okay. He's not a bonafide stud on the top pairing. But if that is your position, you should not be upset in 2020 when he goes elsewhere. You have the chance to get him now and likely at a depressed value for the player he is.

I would say tsweeny I would be 100% fine with that happening.

I think he is good but not great

I do not think he is worth considerable assets

I do not care for his attitude whatsoever whether it was holding out, publicly indicating he wants to be traded or publicly indicating he wishes to not play in an entire country, all while as a RFA.

 

[The Zermanator]

I personally think compared to this thread, people will be kinda shocked at how simple the return for Trouba ends up being. WPG doesnt have a ton of leverage unless they can get a bidding war going, and that depends on a lot of teams valueing Trouba highly and equally.

As for alternatives to Trouba, keep in mind I see him as a well rounded #2-4 and not at all a boneafide #1.

The appeal to having someone like him this year is pretty high, because I think guys like 52, 65, Daley, bowey etc, really handicap the top 4, by being serviceable but one dimensional, which makes it a lot harder for the coach to work a kid into those pairings.

So if we get outbid, or talks go cold, i'd say we have a lot of ammunition on draft day to try and dig up a guy to play a more modern style, and give him the opportunity that we're pretending to give Bowey.

Beyond that, over the next couple years I'm happy enough with our past draft record to expect a surplus at forward, as we find out who we're going with beyond 71 and 59 up front, and unload either guys like AA/Mantha or Ras/Zadina to round out the top 4. (I'm not there yet, but expecting by the end of summer to feel pretty darn confident that 17 and 21 will have a lengthy run in our top 4)

And then further beyond that, all the old contracts are off the books, so a good GM should be able to convert that into a solid top 4 guy.

I'm not saying that guys like Trouba are available all the time these days, but I lean towards standing pat compared to trading a 1st pair package for a guy who I'm worried is hitting his ceiling as either shotgun on the top pair, or great 2nd pair.

Tyler Myers is a UFA btw. He has as much untapped potential as Trouba imo. It's not that cornerstone #1 everyone is looking for, but theres only like 10-20 of those at any given time, and I rank Cholowskis odds of getting there ahead of Trouba, and if pressed it's easier for me to see Myers actually turning into the next Chara, than it is for me to see Trouba being more than the next Brad Stuart.

All that said I love player combos that act as multipliers, and if the Red Wings see Troubas shot blocking and hitting skills as a perfect long term combo with Cholowski or something like that, I would happily re-evaluate my nerfed impressions of Troubas potential and value.

TZE already touched on this but I'd love to know about any other #3/4 who can put up 50 pts while being a defensive rock who plays a physical game and skates well. Those are all top pair guys.

If you're ready to move AA/Mantha in a couple years to round out the top 4 why wouldn't you just move them now for a top pair dman? You're favouring foregoing a real opportunity now for a potential opportunity in the future which isn't even defined. Why do you think we will ever get an equal player for cheaper than what Trouba is now?

Tyler Myers does not have the same untapped potential as Trouba, not even the same ballpark. He's 4 years older and about to enter his 30s. He's not physical at all, he's not nearly as good defensively, skating is about par, and he is worse offensively. He is what he is at this point. Trouba is 25 and this season is the 1st he got a real opportunity to be the #1 for a long stretch while Byfuglien missed ~40 games. And he had a career year. He wants that kind of role permanently which is a big part of why he wants out of Winnipeg and I think he can handle it (at worst a very good #2).

I'm barely disputing that. And I may be speaking too loosely, because by #1 d-man, I dont mean top 30 d-man. I mean the #1 d-man on a championship calibur team.

So if you lined Trouba up with the true championship calibur no.1's currently or through history, I would say that Trouba's explosiveness and lateral/diagonal mobility would be a tick below, and his ability to distribute the puck on the move through the neutral zone instead of station to station is a concern to me when talking about slotting guys in permanently for championship runs.

Brad Stuart was a 3rd oa pick, that was capable of putting up impressive hit and block totals, and hovering near the 50 pt mark. Would I trade blue chips or 39/72 for Brad Stuart? It's definitely worth thinking about.

Really not trying to ruin the fun or develop an obscure hottake. As a casual Jets observer just want to stick to my $.02 as I think there are mitigating factors to Troubas great statistical year that dont neccesarrily imply that his age 25 year has catapulted him to guaranteed elite status.

Or in other words, I dont disagree that he's at the top of his class, I just think the class that follows (heiskanen etc) is more dynamic and may marginalize the impact of the slightly less fluid d-men that preceeded them.

I think I'm way less opposed to an aggressive package for Trouba than it's coming off. And there are plenty of things that I can imagine hearing from our front office in the wake of a trade for Trouba that would make me a huge fan of almost any deal that doesnt involve Cholowski.

DK-Green
Kronwall-Hronek
Ericsson-Daley
Cholowski-Kaski

What part of that makes you think we're in a position to turn our noses up at a top 30 dman because he's not a championship calibre #1? I'd love to get that player (and there's one available this offseason) but beggars can't exactly be choosers. And at this point I've yet to hear a name (not from you specifically) about who that could possibly be.

It's fine if we're able to leverage assets for a top 4 dman like you mentioned in your first post there. But if a top pair continues to elude us then we're in the same position that we've always been. Our problem has never been 2nd/3rd pair dmen. Our problem has been that we have no top pair so our 2nd pair dmen like DK, Green, and Kronwall have been tasked with containing top lines when they are way out of their depth doing so. If Cholowski, Hronek, or McIsaac never become more than a #3 (which is realistically the most likely scenario), then our problems persist.

I get preferring not to part with Cholowski, I like him too, but the odds of him ever becoming better than what Trouba is now are incredibly slim. Ideally he'd be left out and we could do something around AA/Mantha who would be much easier to replace in FA. But Winnipeg is giving up a top pair dman and they're going to want what they're going to want so if they insist on Cholowski I'm not holding him back (provided the balance of the trade is still fair value).

As for your 2nd last paragraph re:Heiskanen. Yeah I'd love Heiskanen, and honestly would prefer the 19 year old over the 25 year old. But there are only so many Heiskanen's to go around. We don't have any of them, and the teams that do won't be giving them up.

 

[Winger98]

The Red Wings have no incentive to lie to the fans/press about if they believe Green will be back or not next year.

No doctor is ever 100% correct all the time obviously, but they probably have a good idea of what's happening and the likelihood of being ready, certainly better than you or I do.

I'm not sure why we should expect the Wings to be entirely truthful when they talk about a player and his injuries. I mean, we see teams lie and fudge all season on player injuries, being as vague as possible. If the Wings come out now and essentially say Green is out, that's only going to hurt them in trade and UFA discussions, weakening their stance because of a perceived need on their blue line.

Also, by downplaying whatever is ailing Green, it takes attention away from him. It's a way of shielding the player from reporters and rampant speculation.

Unless a team comes out and says, "Player X has whatever," taking any talk of him being ready by a set date is up for doubt. especially when the guy repeatedly missed time for it the previous season, as Green did.

 

[obey86]

I'm not sure why we should expect the Wings to be entirely truthful when they talk about a player and his injuries. I mean, we see teams lie and fudge all season on player injuries, being as vague as possible. If the Wings come out now and essentially say Green is out, that's only going to hurt them in trade and UFA discussions, weakening their stance because of a perceived need on their blue line.

Also, by downplaying whatever is ailing Green, it takes attention away from him. It's a way of shielding the player from reporters and rampant speculation.

Unless a team comes out and says, "Player X has whatever," taking any talk of him being ready by a set date is up for doubt. especially when the guy repeatedly missed time for it the previous season, as Green did.

quite the conspiracy theorist

 

[The Zermanator]

The Red Wings have no incentive to lie to the fans/press about if they believe Green will be back or not next year.

No doctor is ever 100% correct all the time obviously, but they probably have a good idea of what's happening and the likelihood of being ready, certainly better than you or I do.

Teams have their own bias though, in terms of favouring a contracted player returning to the ice.

They cleared Franzen to play and now he's suffering a living hell a lot of the time. He should never have set foot on the ice after his last 1-2 concussions but here we are. Even several people on this board thought he shouldn't come back but the doctors cleared him.

So yeah the Wings may be wanting him to play this season. But what we do know is that Green has suffered from a serious recurring issue that has caused him to miss long stretches. It's not unrealistic to think it might come back. Especially given the physical toll of an NHL season. My medical knowledge is very basic granted but if he's already susceptible to this issue reoccurring then rest is probably the best thing to eliminate it entirely. The physical and mental stresses of a hockey season including the exertion, impact, even things like travel and being away from home, are all things that can aggravate the kinds of issues Green has had.

quite the conspiracy theorist

You've never heard of an injury being described as an 'upper body injury' only to later find out it was a concussion?

 

[The Zermanator]

Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
Mathew Barzal for Griffin Reinhart

New GM came in, panicked and listened to those who said the team couldn't draft and develop dmen, had too many young wingers and so should right now, yesterday even, trade picks and young wingers away for a former 4thOA and a prospect.

Nobody anywhere today dosent call those moves 2 of the worst ever made in the game.

So you're comparing Trouba to Larsson (career high 24 points) and Reinhart (career high 1 point). And also comparing whatever we would give up to Barzal and Hall when the only comparable piece we have is Larkin and absolutely no one has suggested moving him. I'd be shocked if Winnipeg even bothered to bring up his name in negotiations for Trouba. I honestly can't attribute this to anything other than a simple desire to be a contrarian.