NBA Your Top 12 Ever

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by Bogart, May 13, 2020.

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  1. Perennial Registered User

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    Jordan
    LeBron
    Chamberlain
    KAJ
    Magic
    Shaq
    Bird
    Durant
    Olajuwon
    Oscar
    Garnett
    Robinson
    Duncan
    Curry

    That's 14
     
  2. Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    MJ
    Lebron
    Wilt
    Magic
    Russell
    Bird
    Kobe
    Duncan
    Shaq
    Steph
    Hakeem
    Durant
     
  3. Perennial Registered User

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    I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

    At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player
     
  4. Cassano Registered User

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    That's why stats shouldn't be the end of all in evaluating this. Duncan may be the best defensive player ever.
     
  5. Perennial Registered User

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    Okay then...based on the eye-test, Robinson was better than Duncan...
     
  6. DangleCity Registered User

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    Duncan was way more skilled and talented than Robinson, hence the nickname the big fundamental. Also arguably the smartest player to ever lace em up. Robinson was freakishly athletic and put up some big numbers on bad Spurs teams, but theres a reason the Spurs started winning championships when Duncan showed up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  7. DangleCity Registered User

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    What was your eye test? He could jump higher than Duncan? Lol
     
  8. Perennial Registered User

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    It's interesting then that it didn't translate to way better stats, since both the raw and advanced stats favour Robinson...
     
  9. bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Duncan was also allowed by the refs to switch his pivot foot, a luxury not afforded to most players.
     
  10. jcs0218 Registered User

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    Rosters in the NBA have been expanded to 13 active players, and 15 total roster size.

    My picks for an all-time team.

    Starters:

    C = Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    PF = Tim Duncan
    SF = Lebron James
    SG = Michael Jordan
    PG = Magic Johnson

    Bench:

    Wilt Chamberlain
    Bill Russell
    Shaquille O'Neal
    Larry Bird
    Kobe Bryant
    Jerry West
    Oscar Robertson
    Stephen Curry

    Non-active players:

    Karl Malone
    Julius Erving

    That is my 13 player active roster, and 15 player total roster.

    If only 12 active players are allowed, then move Shaquille O'Neal from my bench players to my non-active players.
     
  11. jcs0218 Registered User

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    Both West and Robertson make my all-time team.
     
  12. Howe Elbows 9 Registered User

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    Top 5 in MVP voting;

    SeasonWinner2nd3rd4th5th
    1990-91JordanMagicRobinsonBarkleyK. Malone
    1991-92JordanDrexlerRobinsonK. MaloneEwing
    1993-94OlajuwonRobinsonPippenShaqEwing
    1994-95RobinsonShaqK. MaloneEwingOlajuwon
    1995-96JordanRobinsonHardawayOlajuwonPippen

    SeasonWinner2nd3rd4th5th
    1997-98JordanK. MalonePaytonShaqDuncan
    1998-99K. MaloneMourningDuncanIversonKidd
    1999-00ShaqGarnettMourningK. MaloneDuncan
    2000-01IversonDuncanShaqWebberGarnett
    2001-02DuncanKiddShaqMcGradyKobe
    2002-03DuncanGarnettKobeMcGradyShaq
    2003-04GarnettDuncanJ. O'NealStojakovicKobe
    2004-05NashShaqNowitzkiDuncanIverson
    2006-07NowitzkiNashKobeDuncanLeBron
     
  13. DangleCity Registered User

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    Most of the greats were allowed some sort of leeway in that regard. That would be like arguing that Lebron isnt great because he was allowed an extra step on a travel or MJ because he got extra whistles driving to the hoop
     
  14. Perennial Registered User

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    MVP voting is subjective, stats are not...

    Top 3 PER seasons:
    Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
    Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

    Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
    Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
    Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

    Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
    Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
    Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

    Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
    Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
    Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4
     
  15. FiveTacos Registered User

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    I don't think either Duncan or Robinson was better than Shaq or Hakeem. Of those big men, I'd probably only consider prime Hakeem near the Kareem-Wilt level.

    Bird reset the standard for forwards, and I'd only consider LBJ as a possible choice over him. KD's fantastic, but he's not Larry Legend.

    Guards for me it was always MJ, Magic, Oscar, West. Kobe probably passed West and gets on the list as the 2nd best SG of all time. I wouldn't choose any modern PG over Magic or Oscar though.
     
  16. Maestro84 Registered User

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    Duncan easily had a better career. More MVPs, Finals MVPs, First Team Selections, Defensive Team Selections, and was the best player on 4/5 chip winning teams. He was robbed of a couple DPOYs as well.
     
  17. Islay1989 Registered User

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    Your eyes aren't working properly if they are telling you Robinson is the better of the two. Even though I doubt you watched either play. If you did, you'd know how outlandish your claim is.
     
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  18. Perennial Registered User

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    Sure, Duncan had the better career... I was talking about who the better player was
     
  19. Perennial Registered User

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    Stick to what you know...
     
  20. Perennial Registered User

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    My eyes seem to be able to read these stats just fine though...

    Top 3 PER seasons:
    Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
    Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

    Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
    Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
    Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

    Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
    Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
    Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

    Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
    Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
    Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4
     
  21. Islay1989 Registered User

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    The irony.
     
  22. DangleCity Registered User

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    If you want to boil it down to just stats (which is ridiculous, but clearly the only thing you care about), then how about this stat.

    Robinson
    - 0 championships without Duncan
    - 2 championships with Duncan

    Duncan
    - 2 championships with Robinson
    - 3 championships without Robinson
     
  23. Korg My name is Korg; I'm made of rocks.

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    Robinson was also an RAPM darling.

    xRAPM per 100 (91-14) - RAPM

    And had freakish athleticism for a 7 footer.



    It's too bad he was surrounded with a motley crew of worker bees during his prime.
     
  24. Islay1989 Registered User

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    Well, the thing with the stats he is posting is the following:

    • PER is absurdly biased to the offense (as are pretty much all basketball advanced stats) and the only defensive impact it measures is pure counting stats like blocks and steals, completely ignoring other aspects of playing D. It also rewards chuckers more than efficient scorers.
    • If Win shares are his thing he must also think Reggie Miller is better than Kobe.
     
  25. FiveTacos Registered User

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    Sean Elliott, Terry Cummings, Rod Strickland et al. were pretty damn good players.
     

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