NBA Your Top 12 Ever

[Perennial]

Jordan
LeBron
Chamberlain
KAJ
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Durant
Olajuwon
Oscar
Garnett
Robinson
Duncan
Curry

That's 14

 

[Maplebeasts]

MJ
Lebron
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Steph
Hakeem
Durant

 

[Perennial]

I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player

 

[Cassano]

I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player

That's why stats shouldn't be the end of all in evaluating this. Duncan may be the best defensive player ever.

 

[Perennial]

That's why stats shouldn't be the end of all in evaluating this. Duncan may be the best defensive player ever.

Okay then...based on the eye-test, Robinson was better than Duncan...

 

[DangleCity]

I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player

Duncan was way more skilled and talented than Robinson, hence the nickname the big fundamental. Also arguably the smartest player to ever lace em up. Robinson was freakishly athletic and put up some big numbers on bad Spurs teams, but theres a reason the Spurs started winning championships when Duncan showed up.

 

[DangleCity]

Okay then...based on the eye-test, Robinson was better than Duncan...

What was your eye test? He could jump higher than Duncan? Lol

 

[Perennial]

Duncan was way more skilled and talented than Robinson, hence the nickname the big fundamental. Also arguably the smartest player to ever lace em up. Robinson was freakishly athletic and put up some big numbers on bad Spurs teams, but theres a reason the Spurs started winning championships when Duncan showed up.

It's interesting then that it didn't translate to way better stats, since both the raw and advanced stats favour Robinson...

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Duncan was way more skilled and talented than Robinson, hence the nickname the big fundamental. Also arguably the smartest player to ever lace em up. Robinson was freakishly athletic and put up some big numbers on bad Spurs teams, but theres a reason the Spurs started winning championships when Duncan showed up.

Duncan was also allowed by the refs to switch his pivot foot, a luxury not afforded to most players.

 

[jcs0218]

Rosters in the NBA have been expanded to 13 active players, and 15 total roster size.

My picks for an all-time team.

Starters:

C = Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF = Tim Duncan
SF = Lebron James
SG = Michael Jordan
PG = Magic Johnson

Bench:

Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Stephen Curry

Non-active players:

Karl Malone
Julius Erving

That is my 13 player active roster, and 15 player total roster.

If only 12 active players are allowed, then move Shaquille O'Neal from my bench players to my non-active players.

 

[jcs0218]

Not a lot of love for the Logo here? Until MJ came along he was probably the greatest scoring guard of all time. I know a lot of old timers hold him in much higher regard than Oscar.

Both West and Robertson make my all-time team.

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player

Top 5 in MVP voting;

Season	Winner	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1990-91	Jordan	Magic	Robinson	Barkley	K. Malone
1991-92	Jordan	Drexler	Robinson	K. Malone	Ewing
1993-94	Olajuwon	Robinson	Pippen	Shaq	Ewing
1994-95	Robinson	Shaq	K. Malone	Ewing	Olajuwon
1995-96	Jordan	Robinson	Hardaway	Olajuwon	Pippen

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Season	Winner	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1997-98	Jordan	K. Malone	Payton	Shaq	Duncan
1998-99	K. Malone	Mourning	Duncan	Iverson	Kidd
1999-00	Shaq	Garnett	Mourning	K. Malone	Duncan
2000-01	Iverson	Duncan	Shaq	Webber	Garnett
2001-02	Duncan	Kidd	Shaq	McGrady	Kobe
2002-03	Duncan	Garnett	Kobe	McGrady	Shaq
2003-04	Garnett	Duncan	J. O'Neal	Stojakovic	Kobe
2004-05	Nash	Shaq	Nowitzki	Duncan	Iverson
2006-07	Nowitzki	Nash	Kobe	Duncan	LeBron

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[DangleCity]

Duncan was also allowed by the refs to switch his pivot foot, a luxury not afforded to most players.

Most of the greats were allowed some sort of leeway in that regard. That would be like arguing that Lebron isnt great because he was allowed an extra step on a travel or MJ because he got extra whistles driving to the hoop

 

[Perennial]

Top 5 in MVP voting;

Season	Winner	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1990-91	Jordan	Magic	Robinson	Barkley	K. Malone
1991-92	Jordan	Drexler	Robinson	K. Malone	Ewing
1993-94	Olajuwon	Robinson	Pippen	Shaq	Ewing
1994-95	Robinson	Shaq	K. Malone	Ewing	Olajuwon
1995-96	Jordan	Robinson	Hardaway	Olajuwon	Pippen

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Season	Winner	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1997-98	Jordan	K. Malone	Payton	Shaq	Duncan
1998-99	K. Malone	Mourning	Duncan	Iverson	Kidd
1999-00	Shaq	Garnett	Mourning	K. Malone	Duncan
2000-01	Iverson	Duncan	Shaq	Webber	Garnett
2001-02	Duncan	Kidd	Shaq	McGrady	Kobe
2002-03	Duncan	Garnett	Kobe	McGrady	Shaq
2003-04	Garnett	Duncan	J. O'Neal	Stojakovic	Kobe
2004-05	Nash	Shaq	Nowitzki	Duncan	Iverson
2006-07	Nowitzki	Nash	Kobe	Duncan	LeBron

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

MVP voting is subjective, stats are not...

Top 3 PER seasons:
Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4

 

[FiveTacos]

I don't think either Duncan or Robinson was better than Shaq or Hakeem. Of those big men, I'd probably only consider prime Hakeem near the Kareem-Wilt level.

Bird reset the standard for forwards, and I'd only consider LBJ as a possible choice over him. KD's fantastic, but he's not Larry Legend.

Guards for me it was always MJ, Magic, Oscar, West. Kobe probably passed West and gets on the list as the 2nd best SG of all time. I wouldn't choose any modern PG over Magic or Oscar though.

 

[Maestro84]

I find it interesting that Duncan is almost universally listed, but David Robinson isn't...

At their best, the stats clearly show Robinson was the superior player

Duncan easily had a better career. More MVPs, Finals MVPs, First Team Selections, Defensive Team Selections, and was the best player on 4/5 chip winning teams. He was robbed of a couple DPOYs as well.

 

[Islay1989]

Okay then...based on the eye-test, Robinson was better than Duncan...

Your eyes aren't working properly if they are telling you Robinson is the better of the two. Even though I doubt you watched either play. If you did, you'd know how outlandish your claim is.

 

[Perennial]

Duncan easily had a better career. More MVPs, Finals MVPs, First Team Selections, Defensive Team Selections, and was the best player on 4/5 chip winning teams. He was robbed of a couple DPOYs as well.

Sure, Duncan had the better career... I was talking about who the better player was

 

[Perennial]

Your eyes aren't working properly if they are telling you Robinson is the better of the two. Even though I doubt you watched either play. If you did, you'd know how outlandish your claim is.

Stick to what you know...

 

[Perennial]

Your eyes aren't working properly if they are telling you Robinson is the better of the two. Even though I doubt you watched either play. If you did, you'd know how outlandish your claim is.

My eyes seem to be able to read these stats just fine though...

Top 3 PER seasons:
Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4

 

[Islay1989]

Stick to what you know...

The irony.

 

[DangleCity]

My eyes seem to be able to read these stats just fine though...

Top 3 PER seasons:
Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4

If you want to boil it down to just stats (which is ridiculous, but clearly the only thing you care about), then how about this stat.

Robinson
- 0 championships without Duncan
- 2 championships with Duncan

Duncan
- 2 championships with Robinson
- 3 championships without Robinson

 

[Mickey Marner]

Robinson was also an RAPM darling.

xRAPM per 100 (91-14) - RAPM

And had freakish athleticism for a 7 footer.



It's too bad he was surrounded with a motley crew of worker bees during his prime.

 

[Islay1989]

If you want to boil it down to just stats (which is ridiculous, but clearly the only thing you care about), then how about this stat.

Robinson
- 0 championships without Duncan
- 2 championships with Duncan

Duncan
- 2 championships with Robinson
- 3 championships without Robinson

Well, the thing with the stats he is posting is the following:

• PER is absurdly biased to the offense (as are pretty much all basketball advanced stats) and the only defensive impact it measures is pure counting stats like blocks and steals, completely ignoring other aspects of playing D. It also rewards chuckers more than efficient scorers.
• If Win shares are his thing he must also think Reggie Miller is better than Kobe.

 

[FiveTacos]

It's too bad he was surrounded with a motley crew of worker bees during his prime.

Sean Elliott, Terry Cummings, Rod Strickland et al. were pretty damn good players.