NBA Your Top 12 Ever

[Perennial]

If you want to boil it down to just stats (which is ridiculous, but clearly the only thing you care about), then how about this stat.

Robinson
- 0 championships without Duncan
- 2 championships with Duncan

Duncan
- 2 championships with Robinson
- 3 championships without Robinson

Team accomplishments are irrelevant when discussing the talent and impact of individual players...

 

[DangleCity]

Team accomplishments are irrelevant when discussing the talent and impact of individual players...

Considering there careers crossed over on the same team for several years, Id say it does. I mean Duncan won Finals MVP when Robinson was in his prime and Duncan was in his second season

 

[Perennial]

Considering there careers crossed over on the same team for several years, Id say it does. I mean Duncan won Finals MVP when Robinson was in his prime and Duncan was in his second season

Just saying "Robinson was in his prime" doesn't make it so...

In '99, Robinson was 33 years old and coming off a regular season in which he averaged 15.8 points in 31.7 minutes per game...

Robinson's prime ended in '97, when he missed all but 6 games of that season with an injury

 

[DangleCity]

Just saying "Robinson was in his prime" doesn't make it so...

In '99, Robinson was 33 years old and coming off a regular season in which he averaged 15.8 points in 31.7 minutes per game...

Robinson's prime ended in '97, when he missed all but 6 games of that season with an injury

33 is prime especially since he didnt start his NBA career till he was 24.

 

[Perennial]

Well, the thing with the stats he is posting is the following:

• PER is absurdly biased to the offense (as are pretty much all basketball advanced stats) and the only defensive impact it measures is pure counting stats like blocks and steals, completely ignoring other aspects of playing D. It also rewards chuckers more than efficient scorers.
• If Win shares are his thing he must also think Reggie Miller is better than Kobe.

Criticizing the stats I chose to use without offering alternatives...

Surely you can find some player stats that favor Duncan over Robinson, right?

 

[Islay1989]

Criticizing the stats I chose to use without offering alternatives...

Surely you can find some player stats that favor Duncan over Robinson, right?

I'm saying what everyone who actually knows a lick about those stats understands. You can follow them blindly without using context, or you can actually read up on what each of them represents.

And do you think Miller is better than Kobe?

 

[Perennial]

I'm saying what everyone who actually knows a lick about those stats understands. You can follow them blindly without using context, or you can actually read up on what each of them represents.

And do you think Miller is better than Kobe?

So, provide the context then...

Enlighten me

 

[Perennial]

I'm saying what everyone who actually knows a lick about those stats understands. You can follow them blindly without using context, or you can actually read up on what each of them represents.

And do you think Miller is better than Kobe?

Their top 3 Win Shares seasons:

Kobe: 15.3, 14.9, 13.8
Miller: 12.5. 12.3, 12.1

 

[Islay1989]

So, provide the context then...

Enlighten me

Google is your friend.

 

[Perennial]

Google is your friend.

I guess you couldn't find any player stats in Duncan's favour...

 

[Islay1989]

I guess you couldn't find any player stats in Duncan's favour...

Totally.

 

[DangleCity]

Their top 3 Win Shares seasons:

Kobe: 15.3, 14.9, 13.8
Miller: 12.5. 12.3, 12.1

Right, so know not only is Robinson better than Duncan, he is also better than Kobe

 

[Perennial]

Right, so know not only is Robinson better than Duncan, he is also better than Kobe

Kobe may have been more skilled, but the stats show that Robinson had a greater positive impact on a per-game basis...

 

[DangleCity]

Kobe may have been more skilled, but the stats show that Robinson had a greater positive impact on a per-game basis...

Are you in any way related to David Robinson? Might explain why you think he is a better player than Kobe.

 

[Perennial]

Are you in any way related to David Robinson? Might explain why you think he is a better player than Kobe.

The stats show Robinson had a greater positive impact on a per-game basis than Kobe...

You don't have to be Robinson's cousin to see that

 

[Perennial]

Are you in any way related to David Robinson? Might explain why you think he is a better player than Kobe.

 

[Perennial]

Are you in any way related to David Robinson? Might explain why you think he is a better player than Kobe.

The author, Doug Robinson, is probably related to David...

Is Kobe Bryant overrated? Sports economist says yes

 

[FiveTacos]

The stats show Robinson had a greater positive impact on a per-game basis than Kobe...

If a particular stat is showing that player A is better than player B, when almost everyone who watches the sport (and probably most GMs and coaches) would choose player B over player A if they had a draft, you have to question the value of that stat.

I'll say this much, if Kobe had played with Duncan instead of Robinson with Duncan, I'd have been shocked if the two didn't win like 7-9 championships over their careers so long as they were mostly healthy.

 

[Perennial]

If a particular stat is showing that player A is better than player B, when almost everyone who watches the sport (and probably most GMs and coaches) would choose player B over player A if they had a draft, you have to question the value of that stat.

I'll say this much, if Kobe had played with Duncan instead of Robinson with Duncan, I'd have been shocked if the two didn't win like 7-9 championships over their careers so long as they were mostly healthy.

It's not just 1 stat though...

Nearly all the player statistics you can name point to Robinson being better than Duncan and Kobe...

As the video above shows, Kobe Bryant is one of the most overrated players in history

 

[DangleCity]

The author, Doug Robinson, is probably related to David...

Is Kobe Bryant overrated? Sports economist says yes

I can find dozen of articles that say Kobe is the best player of all time, from a lot more reputable people and publications, so I dont really understand the point. Also, Kobe can s be both overrated and still better than Robinson

 

[Perennial]

I can find dozen of articles that say Kobe is the best player of all time, from a lot more reputable people and publications, so I dont really understand the point. Also, Kobe can s be both overrated and still better than Robinson

If the majority of fans started referring to Sam Cassell as the greatest PG ever, would that make it so?

Popular opinion - however popular it may be - doesn't trump unbiased data

Kobe Bryant has never lead the NBA in an advanced statistic...except for Usage Percentage

 

[FiveTacos]

If the majority of fans started referring to Sam Cassell as the greatest PG ever, would that make it so?

Popular opinion - however popular it may be - doesn't trump unbiased data

On what planet is ANYONE putting Sam Cassell in the conversation for greatest PG? Kobe OTOH rightfully is in the conversation for best SG not named MJ. They're not even remotely comparable.

You wouldn't find a coach or GM in NBA history who would choose Cassell over Kobe in a draft. I bet you'd find quite a few who'd choose Kobe over Robinson though. I know Jerry West would, and he knows a hell of a lot more about basketball than you or I do.

And maybe I'm just old, but I remember a LOT of conversation about Robinson being an overrated choke artist until Duncan's arrival saved his rep.

 

[Perennial]

On what planet is ANYONE putting Sam Cassell in the conversation for greatest PG? Kobe OTOH rightfully is in the conversation for best SG not named MJ. They're not even remotely comparable.

You wouldn't find a coach or GM in NBA history who would choose Cassell over Kobe in a draft. I bet you'd find quite a few who'd choose Kobe over Robinson though. I know Jerry West would, and he knows a hell of a lot more about basketball than you or I do.

And maybe I'm just old, but I remember a LOT of conversation about Robinson being an overrated choke artist until Duncan's arrival saved his rep.

You seemed to have missed the point...

It doesn't matter what you, or I, or Jerry West thinks... we have statistics showing us the impact players have on a per-game basis

 

[DangleCity]

You seemed to have missed the point...

It doesn't matter what you, or I, or Jerry West thinks... we have statistics showing us the impact players have on a per-game basis

It does actually matter what people think, because there is a lot more to being a great player than pts, rbs, and ast. You actually have to watch the games and the player or listen to someone that has.

 

[Perennial]

It does actually matter what people think, because there is a lot more to being a great player than pts, rbs, and ast. You actually have to watch the games and the player or listen to someone that has.

I've been using advanced stats, not points, rebounds, and assists...