NBA Your Top 12 Ever

[DangleCity]

I've been using advanced stats, not points, rebounds, assists...

What do you think advanced stats use to come up with their stat

 

[FiveTacos]

You seemed to have missed the point...

It doesn't matter what you, or I, or Jerry West thinks... we have statistics showing us the impact players have on a per-game basis

Well since that's so definitive, I guess teams can save money, fire all their GMs and scouts, and write a piece of analytical software to run their teams and win the championship.

And why bother watching the games? I can just look at the stats afterward and have a full understanding of the entire game.

 

[weastern bias]

1 Jordan
2 Russell
3 Magic
4 Kareem
5 Wilt
6 Duncan
7 Lebron
8 Bird
8 Shaq
10 Hakeem
11 Kobe
12 West

 

[Perennial]

Robinson was also an RAPM darling.

xRAPM per 100 (91-14) - RAPM

And had freakish athleticism for a 7 footer.



It's too bad he was surrounded with a motley crew of worker bees during his prime.

Interesting that Kobe is 1 of only 3 players in the top 50 to have a negative rating on defense... Baron Davis and James Harden being the others

 

[Deficient Mode]

My eyes seem to be able to read these stats just fine though...

Top 3 PER seasons:
Duncan: 27, 27, 27.1
Robinson: 29.1, 29.4, 30.7

Top 3 Win Shares seasons:
Duncan: 13.2, 16.5, 17.8
Robinson: 17.5, 18.3, 20

Top 3 Box Plus Minus seasons:
Duncan: 7.6, 7.6, 8.5
Robinson: 9.2, 9.4, 11.9

Top 3 Victory Over Replacement Player seasons:
Duncan: 6.7, 7.7, 8.0
Robinson: 8.3, 8.7, 11.4

Robinson's regular season value was that of a top ten player all time with his two way play. He was also imo still the best Spurs player in 1999, and is probably underrated historically. His issue is that his scoring was significantly less effective in the postseason against better defenses that worked harder to take away his easy baskets. Robinson's scoring efficiency went way down in the playoffs and Duncan's (along with some other big men who frequently come ahead of Robinson on all time lists) didn't. Duncan's prime playoff performance was imo clearly better statistically than Robinson's even if you adjust for the big disparity in quality of teammates.

 

[EXTRAS]

Steve Nash 4ever.

 

[FiveTacos]

Robinson's regular season value was that of a top ten player all time with his two way play. He was also imo still the best Spurs player in 1999, and is probably underrated historically. His issue is that his scoring was significantly less effective in the postseason against better defenses that worked harder to take away his easy baskets. Robinson's scoring efficiency went way down in the playoffs and Duncan's (along with some other big men who frequently come ahead of Robinson on all time lists) didn't. Duncan's prime playoff performance was imo clearly better statistically than Robinson's even if you adjust for the big disparity in quality of teammates.

Big men like Hakeem, Kareem, etc. had nearly unstoppable postup moves. You could not guard them, all you could do was double and concede an open shot elsewhere.

As an opposing fan, Robinson never felt unguardable. I was far more scared of Duncan or Hakeem in close games. Robinson was so quick for his size, and amazingly good in transition for a big man, but few playoff games are won in transition, most of the greatest moments in NBA history are half court plays. I never felt like down the stretch of a big game that Robinson was going to be the difference maker as they fed him the ball time and time again in half court. You could get Robinson to settle for midrange jumpers, and even though he was good at it for a center, it was something a strong opponent could live with and probably outdo.

It's a little like Giannis right now, where the lack of the go-to halfcourt move is a limiting factor. And it's one thing about Lebron that I've always found lacking ... if Lebron had ever developed an array of halfcourt moves like Kobe did, there'd be zero question that he'd be the GOAT instead of just in the conversation.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Big men like Hakeem, Kareem, etc. had nearly unstoppable postup moves. You could not guard them, all you could do was double and concede an open shot elsewhere.

As an opposing fan, Robinson never felt unguardable. I was far more scared of Duncan or Hakeem in close games. Robinson was so quick for his size, and amazingly good in transition for a big man, but few playoff games are won in transition, most of the greatest moments in NBA history are half court plays. I never felt like down the stretch of a big game that Robinson was going to be the difference maker as they fed him the ball time and time again in half court. You could get Robinson to settle for midrange jumpers, and even though he was good at it for a center, it was something a strong opponent could live with and probably outdo.

It's a little like Giannis right now, where the lack of the go-to halfcourt move is a limiting factor. And it's one thing about Lebron that I've always found lacking ... if Lebron had ever developed an array of halfcourt moves like Kobe did, there'd be zero question that he'd be the GOAT instead of just in the conversation.

I agree completely about Robinson and I've thought of him in comparison to Giannis a lot this postseason. He wasn't truly a high end scorer in the playoffs for everything else he did well. Maybe Giannis will still develop more scoring versatility to combat the scheming against him.

However, I would never put Lebron in this conversation. His offense has held up very well in the playoffs because despite lacking the high end shotmaking of Kobe, he has unmatched decision making and passing on top of all his on-ball scoring. His scoring efficiency hasn't dropped in the playoffs at all (and has probably gotten better when you account for the quality of defenses).

 

[FiveTacos]

However, I would never put Lebron in this conversation. His offense has held up very well in the playoffs because despite lacking the high end shotmaking of Kobe, he has unmatched decision making and passing on top of all his on-ball scoring. His scoring efficiency hasn't dropped in the playoffs at all (and has probably gotten better when you account for the quality of defenses).

Oh I didn't mean Lebron was comparable in the sense of being similarly less effective in the playoffs. Even without the kind of shotcreating moves that some of the other greats had, his ballhandling and playmaking still means he can do things in games that guys like Robinson or Giannis didn't/can't. To me, he's like a more physically dominant version of early Magic (before Magic developed his go-to shots). 10 seconds in a game, you those guys can do something special, certainly more so than someone like Robinson who felt kind of limited.

I meant it more that Lebron could have been even better, despite being one of the uber-greats as it is. It's not as if he's physically incapable of anything ... nothing would have prevented him from picking up a few pet post-up moves and counters. Add that to what he's already got and it would truly have been all over for his opponents.