Boston Bruins Your roster changes / proposals XI

[UncleRico]

But he hasn't won anything. (Anything being solely the Stanley Cup)

As you said, just a team that got to game 7 of the finals.

Hang the banner!


We can have a nice little area like the Indianapolis colts that hang banners saying how far we made it in the playoffs. Right next to the Celtics championship banners

 

[NDiesel]

Yea so, I’m not sure where in my post you saw the word choke, but maybe take a step back from some of the insanity on this board and recognize some members can levy legitimate criticism and still appreciate what the player or team has accomplished

Rask didn’t choke game 7 away, he just didn’t play elite and shut the door, which he’s shown he’s capable of…just not in that final do or die game. That’s a fact, an unfortunate one, but a fact none the less. After all that, his surgery, where we are at now, I believe it’s time to move on

I'm fine with people wanting to move on from him, but by saying he didn't step up and play elite you are still placing the blame on him. Sure you didn't say choke explicitly either, but the implication in your OP was that he didn't do enough. Maybe it isnt what you meant or maybe I took it the wrong way, but with the criticism the guy gets I might have just automatically jumped to that take.

But my point standing, if we are going to mention him not stepping up as the reason for moving on, then why arent we also unhappy with the rest of the core and ready to move on from them too?

At the end of the day he is the only goalie on the team that you know for a fact is capable of taking the team to the cup and that alone is valuable enough to bring him back or at the very least keep him as an option.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Oh 100% is a bandaid. So is signing foligno, forbort, haula, nosek.

It’s just yet another offseason that Sweeney botched that doesn’t get us any closer to winning a championship window as this core is dwindling and on its last legs.

Ive said it before and I’ll go back to it. Sweeney walked into a team with bergy, Marchand, pasta, krejci, chara, krug and Rask. All of those guys in their prime or young core guys except chara who was on the older side but still playing at a high level.

He was gift wrapped an entire top line, an elite 2nd line center, a Norris trophy defender, a top offensive defender in the league and a top 5 goalie of his era and couldn’t fill in the gaps. Just purely insane mismanagement of talent.

On top of that core he had 3 first round picks in the top 15 of his first draft and completely botched it.

That is fine.

But this offseason he copied the Islanders method which beat us to give the forwards depth. Also committed us to being a 2 goalie team. Got a LH Carlo. Have you seen how terrible some of the contracts given out this summer are?

Both Washington and NYI had no qualms about starting both goalies in the postseason but Bruce was too cowardly to do so with the hottest kid in the NHL glued to his bench behind a broken down injured vet.

 

[UncleRico]

That is fine.

But this offseason he copied the Islanders method which beat us to give the forwards depth. Also committed us to being a 2 goalie team. Got a LH Carlo. Have you seen how terrible some of the contracts given out this summer are?

Both Washington and NYI had no qualms about starting both goalies in the postseason but Bruce was too cowardly to do so with the hottest kid in the NHL glued to his bench behind a broken down injured vet.

He definitely secured the bottom six forward spots, no doubt about that. The problem now is though we still don’t have a 2nd line center, 3rd line RW and a real top pairing LHD. Yet we have probably 2 more LW/C than we actually need and too many bottom pairing LHD

Islanders at least have a true top pairing in Pelach and Pullock. They also have their captain coming back next year in Anders Lee.

There have definitely been some terrible contracts, but there have also been some really good ones. I really wanted Pius Suter who had a better season than foligno last year, is 24 or 25 and signed for less than foligno.

 

[PB37]

No I’m not disregarding his development of players at all before he came GM. I’m specifically referring to his time since becoming GM and the moves (or lack there of) that he has made that haven’t been amounted to anything when he has had the best line in hockey, an elite 2nd line center, a Norris quality defender, an elite offensive defender and a top 5 goalie in the league. On top of that he had 3 top 15 picks in his first ever draft and botched them all.

In no way am I discrediting his past roles in the bruins system. However as a GM he’s been a pretty big disappointment.

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players. There *should* be one Cup under Sweeney's tenure, but the players did not perform in a G7 situation, almost to a man, after 16 minutes of dominating the play and feeding off the home crowd.

I get it; when players don't perform, GM's should take their portion of the heat. But in your mind, Sweeney is to blame for it all, seeing as he " walked into " a good situation and I think that sort of mentality is foolish.

His biggest failure was the 2015 draft. But I think he's more than made up for his early day blunders. He drafted a franchise cornerstone blueliner and a potential stud number one goaltender. He put the team in position to win a Stanley Cup and on home ice nonetheless. He's traded for a recent league MVP who's still in his prime years. He's helped keep the core of the team together by convincing them to accept team friendly contracts.

I can think of 3, maybe 4 other GM's in the league right now that have been better. The Bruins aren't perfect, but they are good. Fans here have been underselling this team for years and I think it comes from a lack of perspective, a pushback of some of the overly optimistic that creeps in here from time to time, typical Boston area dwelling on the negative, and just plain stupidity. Past three years, it's " Florida, Montreal, Toronto are going to push us out of the playoff spot, oh no! ". Bruins have lost to a legit dynasty in the making in Tampa and encountered some shit luck against the Islanders, a good defensive team that counter attacks well.

I absolutely think the Bruins could have done better with acquiring players to help them win ( I do think right now, the LD position is going to make or break the season ) but I strongly disagree that Sweeney is some dullard who can't roster build properly and that he's horrible at his job.

 

[UncleRico]

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players. There *should* be one Cup under Sweeney's tenure, but the players did not perform in a G7 situation, almost to a man, after 16 minutes of dominating the play and feeding off the home crowd.

I get it; when players don't perform, GM's should take their portion of the heat. But in your mind, Sweeney is to blame for it all, seeing as he " walked into " a good situation and I think that sort of mentality is foolish.

His biggest failure was the 2015 draft. But I think he's more than made up for his early day blunders. He drafted a franchise cornerstone blueliner and a potential stud number one goaltender. He put the team in position to win a Stanley Cup and on home ice nonetheless. He's traded for a recent league MVP who's still in his prime years. He's helped keep the core of the team together by convincing them to accept team friendly contracts.

I can think of 3, maybe 4 other GM's in the league right now that have been better. The Bruins aren't perfect, but they are good. Fans here have been underselling this team for years and I think it comes from a lack of perspective, a pushback of some of the overly optimistic that creeps in here from time to time, typical Boston area dwelling on the negative, and just plain stupidity. Past three years, it's " Florida, Montreal, Toronto are going to push us out of the playoff spot, oh no! ". Bruins have lost to a legit dynasty in the making in Tampa and encountered some shit luck against the Islanders, a good defensive team that counter attacks well.

I absolutely think the Bruins could have done better with acquiring players to help them win ( I do think right now, the LD position is going to make or break the season ) but I strongly disagree that Sweeney is some dullard who can't roster build properly and that he's horrible at his job.

Ehh that defense for the 2018 bruins team was honestly a pretty weak group. It wasn’t very surprising they lost that series. McAvoy was still getting his feet wet. Chara was probably better served in a lesser role. Though I do agree the offense was nonexistent in that series from the Bs.

That was also smack in the middle of the “it’s been ___ years since Neely/Sweeney have got krejci 2nd line wingers.” I mean we were rotating David backes and karson kuhlman on krejcis RW for that playoff run.

It also wasn’t exactly the toughest route to the Stanley cup that season. What was it Toronto, Columbus and carolina on the way to the Cup?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

He definitely secured the bottom six forward spots, no doubt about that. The problem now is though we still don’t have a 2nd line center, 3rd line RW and a real top pairing LHD.

Islanders at least have a true top pairing in Pelach and Pullock. They also have their captain coming back next year in Anders Lee.

There have definitely been some terrible contracts, but there have also been some really good ones. I really wanted Pius Suter who had a better season than foligno last year, is 24 or 25 and signed for less than foligno.

You wanted Pius Suter but maybe he didn't want to come to Boston? Maybe Boston didn't want him. He was horrible at the dot; 42% FOW. He played mostly with Kane and DeBrincat at EVS last year.

At 5v5:

Suter had 20 points
Kane had 36 points
DeBrincat had 29 points

As a line, they played 331 minutes together and had a 49.26 CF% while starting in the offensive zone 60% of the time.

 

[UncleRico]

You wanted Pius Suter but maybe he didn't want to come to Boston? Maybe Boston didn't want him. He was horrible at the dot; 42% FOW. He played mostly with Kane and DeBrincat at EVS last year.

At 5v5:

Suter had 20 points
Kane had 36 points
DeBrincat had 29 points

As a line, they played 331 minutes together and had a 49.26 CF% while starting in the offensive zone 60% of the time.

Ya maybe he didn’t want to come to Boston, but I’d absolutely take Suter on the deal he got over foligno on the deal that foligno got.

folignos even strength numbers were worse and his faceoff percentage was also below average at 44.8%. At least Suter is a young and upcoming player while foligno has been on a decent decline the past 5 years.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Ya maybe he didn’t want to come to Boston, but I’d absolutely take Suter on the deal he got over foligno on the deal that foligno got.

folignos even strength numbers were worse and his faceoff percentage was also below average at 44.8%. At least Suter is a young and upcoming player while foligno has been on a decent decline the past 5 years.

We’ll find out what Suter is this year as he’s not going to be with two superstar wingers. He comes with risk. Also, I don’t think Boston is going to use Foligno at center enough to really care about his face off numbers.

 

[Sevendust]

Honest question (not a criticism whatsoever)... is Lyle that close to NHL ready??? He's played 25 games in the AHL and was undrafted.

I always thought he was more of a project signing than someone ready, but maybe I'm really off on where along his development curve he is.

I dont know if he is ready but from the talk you can see they value him highly and were surprised about him doing so well in the AHL last season. Being 22 years old his physicality should be close to NHL ready. What he is lacking big right now is experience. Only 25 games as a pro isnt much but if he is starting his season well and if there are some injuries I can see him fill in on the third pair for some games. But the Bruins would be missing a lot of defenseman then. Recent examples of players already playing some NHL games in their second pro season are Connor Clifton and, a kind of special case with his playoff run, Torey Krug. Brandon Carlo only played a few games in the AHL before already being an mainstay on the Bruins blueline as an 20 year old.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

You wanted Pius Suter but maybe he didn't want to come to Boston? Maybe Boston didn't want him. He was horrible at the dot; 42% FOW. He played mostly with Kane and DeBrincat at EVS last year.

At 5v5:

Suter had 20 points
Kane had 36 points
DeBrincat had 29 points

As a line, they played 331 minutes together and had a 49.26 CF% while starting in the offensive zone 60% of the time.

Foligno > Pius Suter and I’m sorry - that shit isn’t even close

 

[HustleB]

You make it sound like Sweeney didn't play a role in the development of some of those core guys, being the head of player development in 2006. You also make it sound like he didn't play a role in the drafting of Pasta and the courting of Torey Krug ( who developed a rapport with Sweeney and was one of the factors in him signing here ), as well as drafting our franchise blueliner in McAvoy.

Sweeney has had his share of swings and misses. He's also helped put this team in place and put them in position to win it all in 2019 ( winning a GM of the Year award in the process ) and followed it up with a best team in the league the following year before COVID derailed everything.

But hey, apparently he just drunk stumbled down the hall and passed out in the GM chair according to you, so what do I know.

Good insights there. I really forget he was in development someimes and I don't know if I ever really knew who did or didn't recruit Krug. Maybe a few players were reported at the time, but it seems you either have an amazing memory or you are just more directly involved in the topic every day. Either way, thank you for sharing, I've always liked Sweeney, despite his misses. Can you change my mind on Neely, I haven't enjoyed him nearly as much. What good does he do?

 

[PB37]

Good insights there. I really forget he was in development someimes and I don't know if I ever really knew who did or didn't recruit Krug. Maybe a few players were reported at the time, but it seems you either have an amazing memory or you are just more directly involved in the topic every day. Either way, thank you for sharing, I've always liked Sweeney, despite his misses. Can you change my mind on Neely, I haven't enjoyed him nearly as much. What good does he do?

With Krug, I think it was Kirk who first reported the relationship between Krug and Sweeney in one of his fantastic blogs after Krug had signed his second or third contract with the Bruins.

Neely... I honestly don't know what he does. I think he should just be a goodwill ambassador, kind of like the owner of a restaurant greeting customers at the door and going to their table to chat. I don't know what the need for a President is when you have a General Manager.

 

[The don godfather]

You make it sound like Sweeney didn't play a role in the development of some of those core guys, being the head of player development in 2006. You also make it sound like he didn't play a role in the drafting of Pasta and the courting of Torey Krug ( who developed a rapport with Sweeney and was one of the factors in him signing here ), as well as drafting our franchise blueliner in McAvoy.

Sweeney has had his share of swings and misses. He's also helped put this team in place and put them in position to win it all in 2019 ( winning a GM of the Year award in the process ) and followed it up with a best team in the league the following year before COVID derailed everything.

But hey, apparently he just drunk stumbled down the hall and passed out in the GM chair according to you, so what do I know.

Yep donny did his job bruce blew it with rask and his softies game 7.. Simple as that.

 

[Dizzay]

LOL imagine thinking that losing Tinordi is somehow a bad thing. He's the definition of JAG

Take a look at what Tinordi did after the Wilson/Carlo incident!
Bergy was the first guy to go over and tap the glass in the box for him. You don't think that goes a long way in the locker room?
I wasn't saying Tinordi was a great defender, I was saying he was a great teammate and filled a role that is now vacant on this team.

 

[HustleB]

With Krug, I think it was Kirk who first reported the relationship between Krug and Sweeney in one of his fantastic blogs after Krug had signed his second or third contract with the Bruins.

Neely... I honestly don't know what he does. I think he should just be a goodwill ambassador, kind of like the owner of a restaurant greeting customers at the door and going to their table to chat. I don't know what the need for a President is when you have a General Manager.

I agree, I read articles implying that he has some type of authority over Sweeney, but I hope he just stays out of the way. Good will, a pep talk at camp once a year, I don't want anything more from him.

 

[KnightofBoston]

But my point standing, if we are going to mention him not stepping up as the reason for moving on, then why arent we also unhappy with the rest of the core and ready to move on from them too?

I am unhappy with the team as a whole, but “moving on” from them an entire team isn’t possible or realistic. Nor does that accurately express what I would have liked to see vs what Sweeney actually did. With respect to rask, he’s coming off 6 months of hip surgery recovery and doesn’t have a contract. That’s different from moving on from a player that does have a contract and isn’t dealing with health issues.

At the end of the day he is the only goalie on the team that you know for a fact is capable of taking the team to the cup and that alone is valuable enough to bring him back or at the very least keep him as an option.

I rarely shut the door completely on things in life, if by the time Rask is healed up we are seeing both A) the goalie tandem struggling and B) Rask is ready and willing to take a small contract then sure, bring him back.

I think this team has bigger question marks in terms of lifting the cup in than in goaltending. As I said before, Rask was a big part in us getting us there twice, but ultimately was not a part of us winning. So you can be both not the reason why a team lost and a reason why they didn’t win.

if Rask stood on his head against the blues game 7 and we lost 1-0, it (his legacy) would be different in my mind. But he was merely average in that game while the team was also off execution wise, hence why we lost 4-1 instead of a 3-2 overtime heartbreaker. A goalie that plays elite prior to the big game to me is less valuable to a goalie who struggles a bit at times but throws down consistently for that do or die game. Rask has done the former more often than not, which is why with respect to his current health and contract status, it makes more sense to move on in the sense you aren’t banking on him returning to be successful

 

[DiggityDog]

Ya maybe he didn’t want to come to Boston, but I’d absolutely take Suter on the deal he got over foligno on the deal that foligno got.

folignos even strength numbers were worse and his faceoff percentage was also below average at 44.8%. At least Suter is a young and upcoming player while foligno has been on a decent decline the past 5 years.

Right but you don’t expect a winger to be outstanding at the dot, and yet his percentage was better than Suter’s. The difference here is Suter is a true center.

I had interest in the guy too, but I take Foligno over him easily. Not hard two have a career year between to of the best wingers in the league

 

[UncleRico]

Right but you don’t expect a winger to be outstanding at the dot, and yet his percentage was better than Suter’s. The difference here is Suter is a true center.

I had interest in the guy too, but I take Foligno over him easily. Not hard two have a career year between to of the best wingers in the league

I mean any stats would have been a career year for pius Suter since he was a rookie. Foligno was on a line to start the year with Columbus top point producer and didn’t perform. He also played 11 games with Toronto where his top line combination was marner and matthews and scored zero goals.

So it’s not like foligno was lacking the opportunity of playing with the top talents of the teams he was on.

 

[HumBucker]

I am unhappy with the team as a whole, but “moving on” from them an entire team isn’t possible or realistic. Nor does that accurately express what I would have liked to see vs what Sweeney actually did. With respect to rask, he’s coming off 6 months of hip surgery recovery and doesn’t have a contract. That’s different from moving on from a player that does have a contract and isn’t dealing with health issues.

Moving on from an entire team isn't the point, nor is anyone suggesting that, obviously. But to single out one player to move on from, regardless of contract status, seems a little silly, when every other player on the team also didn't help them win it all. Besides, there's more than one way to "move on" from a player, and this team has done it before, via trade for instance - c.f. Tyler Seguin.

Taylor Hall didn't help them win it all last season. Should they have moved on from him instead of re-signing him? Marchand's brain fart in game 7 against STL was a crucial error. Should we move on from him when his contract is up?

I rarely shut the door completely on things in life, if by the time Rask is healed up we are seeing both A) the goalie tandem struggling and B) Rask is ready and willing to take a small contract then sure, bring him back.

I think this team has bigger question marks in terms of lifting the cup in than in goaltending. As I said before, Rask was a big part in us getting us there twice, but ultimately was not a part of us winning. So you can be both not the reason why a team lost and a reason why they didn’t win.

if Rask stood on his head against the blues game 7 and we lost 1-0, it (his legacy) would be different in my mind. But he was merely average in that game while the team was also off execution wise, hence why we lost 4-1 instead of a 3-2 overtime heartbreaker. A goalie that plays elite prior to the big game to me is less valuable to a goalie who struggles a bit at times but throws down consistently for that do or die game. Rask has done the former more often than not, which is why with respect to his current health and contract status, it makes more sense to move on in the sense you aren’t banking on him returning to be successful

Everyone here knows full well that if that game 7 was lost 3-2 in OT, hoards of people here would still blame Rask for not "shutting the door when he needed to." As far as I'm concerned, Rask has played well enough the past several playoffs to backstop any contending team to a Cup.

There's always a list of reasons why any team doesn't win in the SCF – some of it has to do with the other team being a really good team and playing well. That's sports. Whatever the list of reasons why the Bruins lost in 2019, the play of Tuukka Rask is pretty far down on that list.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I'm fine with people wanting to move on from him, but by saying he didn't step up and play elite you are still placing the blame on him. Sure you didn't say choke explicitly either, but the implication in your OP was that he didn't do enough. Maybe it isnt what you meant or maybe I took it the wrong way, but with the criticism the guy gets I might have just automatically jumped to that take.

But my point standing, if we are going to mention him not stepping up as the reason for moving on, then why arent we also unhappy with the rest of the core and ready to move on from them too?

At the end of the day he is the only goalie on the team that you know for a fact is capable of taking the team to the cup and that alone is valuable enough to bring him back or at the very least keep him as an option.

Krejci is gone. Rask is gone. Chara and Krug the year before that. Old core has been dwindling each year / transitioning to the next core. The team probably won't be as good as they used to be, but they need to turn the page at some point, and we are doing just that.

The old core gave us what they could, and made it so far. Maybe in fact 2011 was their peak, and that's all. A couple of cup runs, but not enough to finish the job again.

Life cycle, accepting it's time to move on. Would Krejci and Rask make this team better as a whole? Yea, I think so. Do I think they'll push them over the edge at this stage? No. They had their chance, and hell, it was a great chance, but it's time to move forward. That era and attempt is done with. Either suck and draft Krejci's replacement or make a trade for one. Krejci has been very transparent about his intentions, so we should be focusing on moving on. Rask is having hip surgery and is on the wrong side of 30 at this stage. We have a solid NHL ready prospect in Swayman and a guy we just signed to a 5M deal in Ullmark, so writing should really be on the wall for both.

If we are in contending position come February and it looks like they'd be great adds, sure. But otherwise, I say keep the eyes and goals pointing forward.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Moving on from an entire team isn't the point, nor is anyone suggesting that, obviously. But to single out one player to move on from, regardless of contract status, seems a little silly, when every other player on the team also didn't help them win it all. Besides, there's more than one way to "move on" from a player, and this team has done it before, via trade for instance - c.f. Tyler Seguin.

Taylor Hall didn't help them win it all last season. Should they have moved on from him instead of re-signing him? Marchand's brain fart in game 7 against STL was a crucial error. Should we move on from him when his contract is up?



Everyone here knows full well that if that game 7 was lost 3-2 in OT, hoards of people here would still blame Rask for not "shutting the door when he needed to." As far as I'm concerned, Rask has played well enough the past several playoffs to backstop any contending team to a Cup.

There's always a list of reasons why any team doesn't win in the SCF – some of it has to do with the other team being a really good team and playing well. That's sports. Whatever the list of reasons why the Bruins lost in 2019, the play of Tuukka Rask is pretty far down on that list.

I'm not faulting Rask at all here. But Binnington (and some bad reffing) were the big reasons the Blue won 4 of those games. Binnington who has been average at best since, still managed to get hot at the right time (or right games I should say, even). That's all an NHL team needs; a goalie good enough to get into the playoffs, and be hot enough to win 16 post season games.

It's definitely not all on the goalie, Rask in this case. But sometimes goalies reputations can be made by winning the right games or losing the wrong ones.

2 facts here, that are NOT mutually exclusive.
1. Rask was an excellent goalie and one of the statistical best in Bruins history for his duration on the team.
2. Rask was not a starter on a Stanley Cup winning team.

There's no debating either of those facts, but we can argue ad nauseam why either of them are facts.

My point with all of this?
tl;dr: The core has had it's chances, some of them very good chances, but as their time on the team officially expires, it's time to move forward, for better or worse. We all knew this was going to happen.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

despite being extremely sad to see Krejci go and feeling like this team has some major holes on paper, I am oddly excited for and optimistic about this season. I'm excited to see some fresh faces in the lineup, hoping some of the kids can break out, dying to see McAvoy and Pastrnak take another step forward. I think there will be some adversity during the season, but I also think it'll be the kind of adversity that makes the team grow and get better. Idk, I'm along for the ride, despite having misgivings about some things.

 

[TCB]

despite being extremely sad to see Krejci go and feeling like this team has some major holes on paper, I am oddly excited for and optimistic about this season. I'm excited to see some fresh faces in the lineup, hoping some of the kids can break out, dying to see McAvoy and Pastrnak take another step forward. I think there will be some adversity during the season, but I also think it'll be the kind of adversity that makes the team grow and get better. Idk, I'm along for the ride, despite having misgivings about some things.

While I agree, I'm a little exited on the season and what it may or may not bring, I'm mainly interested in what Foligno and Haula bring along with Ullmark and Swayman in goal. Fearful about the defense though and outside of Swayman I don't see any major impact from any kids.

I just think this year is to hard to call, way to many question marks but it will be interesting, I just feel it could go either way.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

While I agree, I'm a little exited on the season and what it may or may not bring, I'm mainly interested in what Foligno and Haula bring along with Ullmark and Swayman in goal. Fearful about the defense though and outside of Swayman I don't see any major impact from any kids.

I just think this year is to hard to call, way to many question marks but it will be interesting, I just feel it could go either way.

I think some kids will get chances once we get injuries. No team (especially this team) go a season without the injury bug during some point of the season. Everyone but Nick Ritchie was out at some point last year. I'm sure Studnicka, Steen, Vaak will all get their shots.

I am also expecting someone to play an nhl game who I never thought would sniff nhl ice. I had to google Jack Ahcan before that Buffalo game last year and I like to think I pay attention to what goes on around the Bruins decently well.