Your Evaluation of Jake Muzzin...

[saffronleaf]

So Muzzin's never been a key contributor or really a "core" piece on a cup winner, but we'll give him credit? Yet we won't do the same for a guy who has multiple gold medals and a cup? Bizarre.

Muzzin was a key contributor. I'd consider a top 4 dman (who is actually qualified to be a top 4 dman, not like Zaitsev or something) to be a key contributor.

Anybody could have coached Team Canada to success. Anybody.

His Cup was a long time ago, and his Babcockisms that hinder teams has grown in strength since that Cup. Not to mention they had Lidstrom.

 

[Gallagbi]

Muzzin was a key contributor. I'd consider a top 4 dman (who is actually qualified to be a top 4 dman, not like Zaitsev or something) to be a key contributor.

Anybody could have coached Team Canada to success. Anybody.

His Cup was a long time ago, and his Babcockisms that hinder teams has grown in strength since that Cup. Not to mention they had Lidstrom.

You do understand Lidstrom wasn't an automatic cup, right? Yes he was good, but that Red Wings team wasn't the dynasty that Bowman had.

And Muzzin's was a useful piece. He wasn't Doughty, Kopitar, Quick though.

Anybody could coach Canada to success, but they don't always win. And of anybody, they chose Babcock...

 

[saffronleaf]

You do understand Lidstrom wasn't an automatic cup, right? Yes he was good, but that Red Wings team wasn't the dynasty that Bowman had.

And Muzzin's was a useful piece. He wasn't Doughty, Kopitar, Quick though.

Anybody could coach Canada to success, but they don't always win. And of anybody, they chose Babcock...

Yea, I agree that Lidstrom isn't an automatic cup and the post-lockout Wings weren't as stacked as the Wings of the Bowman era. I think though that the Wings team he won the Cup with and the Leafs team he has now are very different. Moreover, Babcock's coaching has also changed, and I think for the worse at least when you look at how the current Leafs team is set up.

I don't think he's a bad coach, but his current coaching is not ideal for how our team is constructed.

And yea, Muzzin is not more important than Doughty, Kopitar and Quick, but we're not asking him to be that important. We have Matthews, Reilly, Andersen, Tavares. But a good top 4 dman is pretty key.

And also yes, him being selected does lend credence to him being good, but the gold medals themselves I really feel like any Canadian NHL coach could have done that job.

 

[Gallagbi]

Yea, I agree that Lidstrom isn't an automatic cup and the post-lockout Wings weren't as stacked as the Wings of the Bowman era. I think though that the Wings team he won the Cup with and the Leafs team he has now are very different. Moreover, Babcock's coaching has also changed, and I think for the worse at least when you look at how the current Leafs team is set up.

I don't think he's a bad coach, but his current coaching is not ideal for how our team is constructed.

And yea, Muzzin is not more important than Doughty, Kopitar and Quick, but we're not asking him to be that important. We have Matthews, Reilly, Andersen, Tavares. But a good top 4 dman is pretty key.

And also yes, him being selected does lend credence to him being good, but the gold medals themselves I really feel like any Canadian NHL coach could have done that job.

Isn't that the same argument for Muzzin? He's playing a different and worse game? Let's keep in mind that cup was 5 years ago for him and an aging player is a hell of a lot different than an aging coach.

I think Muzzin's better than we've seen, but there's a lot of double standards in your logic

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Muzz will be fine. Didn’t have a banner night, but who did?

Moving right along...

 

[Matthews34]

Hasn't Babcock proven to be successful? He's won at every level...

A decade ago

 

[saffronleaf]

Isn't that the same argument for Muzzin? He's playing a different and worse game? Let's keep in mind that cup was 5 years ago for him and an aging player is a hell of a lot different than an aging coach.

I think Muzzin's better than we've seen, but there's a lot of double standards in your logic

Yea but I'm not ripping on Babcock for being old. His age is fine he is a coach. But it seems like he's doubling down ever more on strategies and styles that aren't suitable for the roster we have.

And sure, Muzzin may have had some decline. But I agree with you that Muzzin is better than we've seen. My hypothesis for why that's the case is that Babcock doesn't use the systems, line combinations, and deployment to get the best out of our players, including Muzzin.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

He actually looks like he's playing hurt as well. I wonder if we'll hear something in the coming days.

 

[Brown Dog]

He had that monster game against Anaheim. Other than that, gotta say he's been kinda lousy.

 

[Sergei Berezin]

His wrist is hurt. That's affecting his ability with the puck, and now that Dermott and Gardiner are out, he can't properly heal it. Hopefully it gets better, though

 

[96]

You do understand Lidstrom wasn't an automatic cup, right? Yes he was good, but that Red Wings team wasn't the dynasty that Bowman had.

And Muzzin's was a useful piece. He wasn't Doughty, Kopitar, Quick though.

Anybody could coach Canada to success, but they don't always win. And of anybody, they chose Babcock...

He coached some terrible RW teams to the playoffs after Lidstrom

 

[Ports]

Looks slow to react and ineffective out there. Right now he’s a defensive liability. If he doesn’t improve, he will need to play sheltered minutes.

 

[Ports]

If you're an NHL defenseman heading to the Hockey Hall of Fame, you have about a 33% chance of not getting ripped apart by Leaf fans.

So you think he’s a hall of famer then?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

His wrist is hurt. That's affecting his ability with the puck, and now that Dermott and Gardiner are out, he can't properly heal it. Hopefully it gets better, though

We're pretty much locked into that third spot in the Atlantic unless Boston starts losing again so bring up Loverde if you have to.

Just make sure you get yourself healthy for playoffs. Miss a few games if need be.

Rielly-Ozhiganov
Marincin-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Holl
Loverde

-is terrible and ugly on the back end, but just get everybody healthy.

 

[TheBigThree]

Bad trade

 

[Bomber0104]

Shot out of the cannon to start, but seems to be regressing down to the Leafs level of defensive incompetence.

 

[Cor]

Muzzin- Zaitsev was our only pairing who had a positive xGF% last night at even strength.

 

[cannucky]

He was -3 last night , made a couple if Reillyesque plays at the offensive blueline leading to a couple of idd nan rushes the wrong way including the three on one goal and git knocked on his backside by half the uslanders roster -What sm I missing ?

 

[RLF]

Shot out of the cannon to start, but seems to be regressing down to the Leafs level of defensive incompetence.

He is a good complimentary partner when asked to play as the responsible D-man and his partner is the puck carrier. Zaitsev is not a good puck mover and I think they are asking him to be something that is not his strength. They are asking him to be THE guy on the pair. He has always been most effective as the steady piece, which is why he looks so good out of the gate with Rielly as he got to play the game he is most comfortable playing.imo

 

[ShaneFalco]

He's better than what we've seen, and I think they systems Babcock employs, can make anyone look bad

 

[93WrapAround]

I will say this, I was and am pretty surprised at his lack of mobility and speed. I wasn't expecting a Morgan Reilly/Gardiner type of wheels or anything when the trade was announced and people were calling him a top pairing D-man - but I expected him to be an average skater and even heard such from people. But I don't see it. He looks noticeably slow out there. Not Hainsey slow, but slower than average. Not a deal-breaker for a defenceman, just caught me off guard is all.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Losing the other Jake will massively improve the Leafs defense by itself.

Spectacular defense last night without Gardiner.

 

[ryno23]

as some posters have said the system is killing any Leaf D. I still don't get why with all the skill up front and the great 3 C we have they chose to try long stretch passes every chance when they know the D can't execute them. Simple 5 foot pass to the C who is in support down low and let them gather speed coming thru the NZ instead of turnover after turnover or icing with long bomb passes missed.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Spectacular defense last night without Gardiner.

For sure. I know the sample size is small but our D sure looks much improved without that tire fire/turnover machine.

 

[zeke]

Muzzin: 15gms, 7pts (38pt pace), +5, 53.3cf%, 53.1scf%