Did he get that many more opportunities than Miller did? His big season was Points RW, last season Kucherov was in that spot all year. He played on Stamkos wing, tell me someone not a star that he works well with? Gourde still produced more than Miller at 5v5 with roughly the same time on ice. Mathieu Joseph produced as much as Miller did at 5v5 last year. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miller and what he's doing this year but when they were on the same team Gourde looked the better player.
Player Discussion: Yanni Gourde
- Thread starter VoluntaryDom
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Did he get that many more opportunities than Miller did? His big season was Points RW, last season Kucherov was in that spot all year. He played on Stamkos wing, tell me someone not a star that he works well with? Gourde still produced more than Miller at 5v5 with roughly the same time on ice. Mathieu Joseph produced as much as Miller did at 5v5 last year. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miller and what he's doing this year but when they were on the same team Gourde looked the better player.
Sky04
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Miller is a skill player who thrives with skill, we already saw that when he played with Kucherov and Stamkos putting up PPG numhers, no surprise you're seeing it again when he's used properly. Given Point and Kucherov and essentially better versions of Boeser and Petterson, you can't tell me we wouldn't have a spot for him given that's where Gourde started this season until he played himself off that line.
Comparing last season to Gourde who played with better players and not expected to carry a 4th line like Miller was is disingenuous, of course Gourde produced more, his most common ES lines last season are posted below, so him having marginally better 5v5 numbers is hardly impressive considering when you give Miller the same talent level he outproduces Gourde by 40+ points.
Given their contracts were the exact same length and Miller was coming in younger, higher upside and slightly cheaper it's a huge value loss.
Gourde 2018-2019 5v5:
| GOURDE,YANNI - PALAT,ONDREJ - STAMKOS,STEVEN | ||
| GOURDE,YANNI - JOHNSON,TYLER - POINT,BRAYDEN | ||
| GOURDE,YANNI - KUCHEROV,NIKITA - POINT,BRAYDEN | ||
| GOURDE,YANNI - POINT,BRAYDEN - STAMKOS,STEVEN |
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Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
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So those line combinations let's look closer. Gourdes top combo Palat and Stamkos he played with 25.5%, Johnson and Point 13.5%, Kucherov and Point 11.5%, Point and Stamkos 6%. Millers top four line combos are Cirelli and Killorn 28%, Kucherov and Stamkos 16%, Palat and Stamkos 16%, Callahan and Paquette 9%.
Breaking down the top 4 combos only Gourde played 31.5% with Stamkos with Miller playing 32% as well, so a close with Stamkos. Miller played 16% with Kucherov while Gourde only 11.5%, win for Miller. Gourde played 31% with Point while Miller didn't have him in his top 4 combo, big win for Gourde which makes sense because they have great chemistry. Speaking of chemistry Miller player with Killorn and Cirelli who seem to have the best chemistry while also being great at ES.
Both guys played in the top 9 most of the season. Miller more with Cirelli and Killorn while Gourde with Point. So when talking about opportunities it seems that both got their chances with Miller really not taking advantage of his. Only one of them was a healthy scratch last year. So when Miller isn't finding that chemistry like he did with Kucherov and Stamkos in 17-18 he isn't as useful. Gourde plays our style much better and he can be used in more situations than Miller. So for roughly the same money I prefer the guy who plays a better all around game and plays better in our system.
Sky04
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Having a 5m player capable of 80 points and not using it is stupid. So yes if you're going to keep Miller without playing him in the top-6 like Cooper did then there's no point having him and we can keep our 30 point grinder who's on the 3rd/4th line anyways because he kills the top-6.
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Seeing how he was 26 going into the season with a career high of 23 goals and 58 points no one thought he was an 80 point player. He was a career 0.55 player and suddenly he's a ppg and he was given more than enough chances in NY and here. All credit to him he did something to fix his inconsistency but you can't fault us for trading him when he didn't show this type of play nightly. Miller was given top 6 time and he didn't take the job and run with it. I blame him for some of that but also Cooper with his insistence on changing lines from game to game if something didn't work.
Do I like that we are paying Gourde 5.16 to play in the bottom 6 and produce like he is, of course not. But he's still gives it all every night which is something Miller didn't do. I also don't mind trading Miller because if he did get the top 6 time here and break out then Cirelli probably doesn't break out. Stamkos stays as the 2C and Cirelli the 3C. For the team now and in the future having Cirelli become a legit 2C is much bigger than Miller being a ppg player.
When the whistles get put away Gourde has trouble int he playoffs. We need some grit to make space, fight in the boards and net, and create opportunities for the skill guys to score. Gourde is decent but he isn't a 5 million dollar player. He also isn't an effective bottom 3 player in the playoffs.
BowDownToVasilevskiy
Registered User
Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
i guess we always gonna debate miller gourde
my thing is this i loved miller watched from when was a kid wanted to keep him
most reason to keep though was faceoffs that was a big deal to me over keeping gourde
but im ok with it.... gourde played fine this year he never stops I like his moxy how he fights and will get in anyones grill etc... id have liked miller for faceoffs is only reason would want him
he didnt play as well as I expected him to overall is a business though so gonna lose guys probably 2 next year at least one year later
whatever we have ill take and sail with it
my thing is this i loved miller watched from when was a kid wanted to keep him
most reason to keep though was faceoffs that was a big deal to me over keeping gourde
but im ok with it.... gourde played fine this year he never stops I like his moxy how he fights and will get in anyones grill etc... id have liked miller for faceoffs is only reason would want him
he didnt play as well as I expected him to overall is a business though so gonna lose guys probably 2 next year at least one year later
whatever we have ill take and sail with it
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
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Does this guy’s motor ever stop? Like ever??
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The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
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My heart for Yanni grew three sizes yesterday. Such a good game.
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
Lot of revisionist history for a guy that has 4 goals in 65 career playoff games. At least Gourde gives you a consistent effort and doesn't complain when you play him out of position.
- Jan 23, 2017
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65? I'm not gonna bother checking any stats but I'm pretty confident in saying he does not have 65 playoff games.
Steazy Doo
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He does. You know he's talking about Miller right? Gourde is 25 games. Both have four goals.
Sky04
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Miller has 3 points in 4 games this year for Vancouver, all both players are doing is proving you can improve on past playoff performances.....
I don't recall a single comment Miller made about being played on the 4th line either unless there's some "revisionist history" there.
- Jan 23, 2017
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Lol I didn't read any previous posts, just Gourde in the title and assumed we were talking about him.
bov
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2010
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Yanni took some heat for lack of production at times but he really is one of the most consistent players on the team, and has been since he arrived to the NHL. This guy is buzzing every single time he gets on the ice, it's actually pretty remarkable how his game has held up. I really don't care if his numbers dip every now and then, you know what you're getting from him no matter where he is in the lineup. Very effective player, nice to see him get some time in the spotlight.
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
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Dude’s been a beast so far this series and according to the CBus boards he’s the game changer so far in their eyes.
Peacefool
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2019
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Just wanna say. Thgere were a lot of guys who critised Gourde during regular season. Yeah he didnt score,but i couldnt understand all critics,dude is flying all over the ice,hitting opponents never gives up,speedy,grinding,pushing,positive player,i always liked hes playing)
