Player Discussion Yak Talk Part III: Trade Requested

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm saying this from actually watching him play. Him scoring goals literally has nothing to do with what I described. Although he does own a great one-timer that sometimes doesn't end up in the goalie's crest, in the crowd or behind our defenders. Less often than you'd like though obviously.

But we drafted him to score goals. On an offensively starved team we could use another 20 goal scorer. We have enough passers as it is.

And let's not forget he's still pretty bad in his own zone.

 

[snipes]

I agree in principle, but as of now there is no way I split up Maroon and McDavid. Maroon has a good mix of supporting the offense and providing some physical protection to McDavid.

Agreed. McDavid plays well with big, strong, power forwards on his wing who can get to the net and win puck battles/control the cycle game.

Having a strong guy like Maroon opens up time and space for McDavid in the offensive zone.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I'm in favor of retaining our forwards and running this 67-97-10 line, a 4-29-14 line, 19-93-44 perhaps, and seeing how the defence gels with one addition. Pittsburgh won with wingers, I'd rather not dump ours for pennies on the dollar. Play Yak where he fits.

Pittsburgh won with great centers, goaltending, a legit #1 D, excellent team play and one really good winger. Most of their wingers are plugs made great by their centers.

 

[Up the Irons]

Murray is a #4 at best, skates well, doesn't seem to have great instincts and that's probably because he barely played his first 3 years in the league.

these days, a legit #4 dman is quite valuable. way more valuable then a 2nd line winger that is weak defensively.

Weakest 1st overall of all-time? Give your head a shake.

he lost his position to Teddy ****ing Purcell!!!! If that's not in the running for weakest 1st overall, i don't know what is.

Daigle was way better, he just didn't like being a hockey player. Maybe Wickenheiser and Stefan were worse, but's that's 2!! Name another one. Not Nash. Not Lacavelier. Not Turgeon. Not Murphy. Not Fleury. Not Hamrlik. Not Phillips. Even Eric Johnson, I'd trade Yak for him yesterday!! Maybe, Neil Broten.

Yak is absolutely in the conversation for worst 1OA of all-time, and without a complete 180 in his career (which is still possible, I'll grant you that), its staying that way.

 

[BadMedicine*]

Yakupov was the 4th in line for proper support......the Hall over-extension forced Nuge to become defensive and the BFF affair with Hall/Ebbs caused internal strife and this ultimately resulted in Gagnes 86ing and this quickly bumped Nail down a spot minutes and situational-wise , Eberle even bumped him down a spot by becoming a Golden Child despite his draft spot.

IMHO Nail could be a walk-on for Ovechkin,he would be an immediate sucess with the Capitals because heir Sysem properly supports a static shooter which is what BOTH Nail and Ovie happen to be IMHO.....and judging by Ovies nose-dive in the 2016 Post-Season because his Coaches believed it best he be trying to be a defensive force like Stamkos tried to be in 2015 ...lol....Ovie could use a triggerman who thinks like him and who has a background fundamentally with some similarities to his own.Methinks Ovie takes Nail under his wing and we see Nail having high levels of sucess like Schultz is now.

Personally I believe the Oilers need Nails truculence and they should bring back Gagner and let him make Nail a Hitman from deep in the lineup....the Oilers have to decide if they are going to go full-blown "San Jose Model" with the collapse defense like they did last season and follow the Sharks methods or if they are going to embrace their own roots and strengths and go back to their 2008-09-10 budding Possesion/Transition game which catalysed this Eras NHL evolution back into an exciting high speed high energy offensive league ......because if they run 3 or 4 offensive lines like the Kings-Hawks-Blues-Isles-Pens now run ...like the Oilers USED TO DO.....they will need Nails sniping on a high energy offensive 3rd line.

IMHO there is nothing preventing the Oilers from moving Ebbs and bumping Nail up or from keeping Ebbs and bringing in Gagner to keep a young-gun in the top 6 as a winger.

If the Oilers focus on the NewAge style like the Flames new Coach is said to embrace {Buttons}then like the Hawks and Pens the Oilers will need to spread the minutes out in a very balanced manner focusing on EveryMan type expectations and consistant contributions .With this format the difference in quality minutes on the 1st or 3rd line will be INCONSEQUENTIAL.......and players will more easily be able to move around the roster for the Coaches.

If they go San Jose Model.....well then things are gonna blow up.When the dust settles I still expect the Oilers to try to keep Nail onboard because he is truculent by nature and this is Chias style.

 

[Dorian2]

Pro Yak AND Gags. Replacement will like you.

 

[BadMedicine*]

Pro Yak AND Gags. Replacement will like you.

Its about value for the buck....Nail was prevented from producing numbers demanding high renumeration....unlike the 6million dollar Hall'n'Ebbs SideShow we had to watch for 3 years to many.....and Nail is the top pick most deserving of a longer tutelage.....Moving Ebbs frees up money for a stud D-man....moving Ebbs doesnt force Nail to a 1st line RW role....nope he would be a KILLER on a 3rd line with Gagner....and be getting paid like a 3rd line RW.

Gagner is a very attractive player now that the NHL is MOST CLEARLY evolving expeditiously towards the NewAge focus of high speed and urgent offense supporting tight defense catalysed around the Possesion/Transition style.Gagner would fit on the Hawks-Pens-Isles or Oilers equally well and this is the direction the NHL is moving into at warp speed.He is definately value for the dollar now ..plus he has 5-6 good years in him still and is ALL OILERS.

I was in favor of moving Hall and Ebbs ASAP...simply because we inflated their value and padded their stats so deeply that if the Oilers play a Possesion/Transition style like the Kings-Hawks-Pens ect......well massive market value will be lost over the mid-long term....when you run 3-4 evenly worked lines no one gets spoonfed massive minutes....NO ONE....No more running Hall full bore over and over with Ebbs riding Shotgun over and over....not in a balanced EveryMan focused process like we see the Hawks use and just saw the Penguins use .

A lot of the weighted evidence concerning player dispositions in 2017 is riding on the Philosophy and System they choose...they "look" to be building a San Jose Model

 

[harpoon]

Its about value for the buck....Nail was prevented from producing numbers demanding high renumeration....unlike the 6million dollar Hall'n'Ebbs SideShow we had to watch for 3 years to many

Nail was 'prevented'? Poor little Nail. All these roadblocks in his path to NHL superstardom.

Here in the real world the only thing I saw that 'prevented' Yakupov from moving up the lineup was his utter inability to comprehend the duties of playing RW in the NHL.

.....and Nail is the top pick most deserving of a longer tutelage

Prevented. Deserving. Do you see the language you are using? If Yak got what he 'deserved' he'd be lining up for the Condors next season.

.....Moving Ebbs frees up money for a stud D-man....moving Ebbs doesnt force Nail to a 1st line RW role....nope he would be a KILLER on a 3rd line with Gagner....and be getting paid like a 3rd line RW.

Gagner doesn't play for the Oilers anymore. The Oilers don't want him back, and if they did call to ask about his services, he'd be crazy not to hang right up on them.

Gagner is a very attractive player now that the NHL is MOST CLEARLY evolving expeditiously towards the NewAge focus of high speed and urgent offense supporting tight defense catalysed around the Possesion/Transition

You'll be hard pressed to find a bigger Gagner fan than me on the board, and even I am shocked to hear that you think Gagner is a 'high speed, urgent offense' type player. He's slow (slower than before) and patient. Kinda the opposite of what you said he is.

 

[BadMedicine*]

Nail was 'prevented'? Poor little Nail. All these roadblocks in his path to NHL superstardom.

Here in the real world the only thing I saw that 'prevented' Yakupov from moving up the lineup was his utter inability to comprehend the duties of playing RW in the NHL. Eberle should have been traded in his 3rd year and Nail should have been injected into his spot but the Hall'n'Ebbs show was in full swing with Jordan covering Halls "6" as a BFF and with Nugey converting his massive offensive skillset into defensive acumen to AGAIN support Hall...so yup...Nail was held back....and evidence on all levels proves NO PLAYERS HAVE comprehended their duties playing in the NHL during the "DECADE OF DERELICTION" by Management and Coaches who have sent more message to the Players than Bell Mobility sends on a Friday Night....lol.
Prevented. Deserving. Do you see the language you are using? If Yak got what he 'deserved' he'd be lining up for the Condors next season.Yakupov deserved to be provided with a professionally projected consistant stable environment to grow within ....remember.. he only had Gagner as a mentor due to the locker room strife... and he SHOULD HAVE Hall-Ebbs-Nugey and everyone else COMPLETELY SUPPORTING HIM .Because of the recent difficult NHL indoctrinations they themselves recently went through ....LEADERSHIP SKILLS should have encouraged HALL OR EBBS to make sure this happened WHICH IMHO DID NOT HAPPEN...........Nugey couldnt break up the BFFs and lead he was to young and saw the writing on the wall IMHO so he went into the weeds and became a 2-way player to survive.
Gagner doesn't play for the Oilers anymore. The Oilers don't want him back, and if they did call to ask about his services, he'd be crazy not to hang right up on them.The Oilers should want him back he is now a better fit for them.
You'll be hard pressed to find a bigger Gagner fan than me on the board, and even I am shocked to hear that you think Gagner is a 'high speed, urgent offense' type player. He's slow (slower than before) and patient. Kinda the opposite of what you said he is.

Yes...Sam Gagner EXCELLS playing with high speed players who can execute as such...no hes no Jack-Flash....lol...and Sammy elite offensive anticipatory instincts allow him to project an URGENT OFFENSIVE FOCUS on the ice he is always looking to create something dangerous and quite often does so quickly without much dusting-off of the puck.

The 8 point night was System generated.....the entire team worked a superior gameplan..... it was not fluke or fate....the Oilers were "experimenting" with the NewAge Possesion/Transition Style which Pat Quinn first used and introduced them to in 2009 and Sammy and others were showing spurts of ELITE RESULTS...ABSOLUTELY ELITE...and Gagner was the catalyst...he still remains so...remember the Kings followed the Oilers 2009 NewAge Possesion/Transition focuses beginning in 2012 and the Hawks did so in 2013 and many teams since to the degree that the entire NHL has begun to expeditiously evolve into a NewAge high speed high energy high offense airtight defensive Possesion/Transition League.

 

[McShogun99]

Yes...Sam Gagner EXCELLS playing with high speed players who can execute as such...no hes no Jack-Flash....lol...and Sammy elite offensive anticipatory instincts allow him to project an URGENT OFFENSIVE FOCUS on the ice he is always looking to create something dangerous and quite often does so quickly without much dusting-off of the puck.

The 8 point night was System generated.....the entire team worked a superior gameplan..... it was not fluke or fate....the Oilers were "experimenting" with the NewAge Possesion/Transition Style which Pat Quinn first used and introduced them to in 2009 and Sammy and others were showing spurts of ELITE RESULTS...ABSOLUTELY ELITE...and Gagner was the catalyst...he still remains so...remember the Kings followed the Oilers 2009 NewAge Possesion/Transition focuses beginning in 2012 and the Hawks did so in 2013 and many teams since to the degree that the entire NHL has begun to expeditiously evolve into a NewAge high speed high energy high offense airtight defensive Possesion/Transition League.

You are either completely crazy or a genius...

 

[harpoon]

Pat Quinn - I liked him better than most posters here did, but the consensus 'wisdom' on Pat Quinn is that he was a 'name hire' used as camouflage to cover the most blatant season of tanking. 'Derp, they can't possibly tanking if they hired a genius like Quinn' was what the Oilers were hoping the sheep would think, and sure enough ...

I have never seen Quinn credited with devising the ultimate hockey strategy which was then copied by all the other successful SC winning teams. I'm highly suspicious of that claim. But I'd be open to being proven wrong if you could provide some evidence.

What I liked about Quinn was that he didn't seem to care about the name on the jersey or the number of zeros on the contract. I prefer that old school style where star players don't get coddled. That said, I don't think that the lotto picks have been coddled to the extent that you seem to. Personally, I think the whole 'Nugey' , 'bff' , 'poor excluded Nail' , 'puck bunnies at the club' style of posting just detracts from any reasonable argument the poster may be making. But that could just be me .., cause there are plenty that engage in it. You'll probably fit right in.

Yes...Sam Gagner EXCELLS playing with high speed players who can execute as such...no hes no Jack-Flash....lol...

I see. I thought you were suggesting that speed was one of Gagner's attributes. To the contrary his lack thereof has put his career in jeopardy imo.

and Sammy elite offensive anticipatory instincts allow him to project an URGENT OFFENSIVE FOCUS on the ice he is always looking to create something dangerous and quite often does so quickly without much dusting-off of the puck.

OK. I see what you were saying. I think you have described the strengths of Gagner as a player quite well. His first few strides are still pretty bad though. I guess it is what it is at his age now. Still and all, Gagner would be crazy to even accept calls from Edmonton at this point in his career. Not that I believe for a second they would be calling him anyway.

The 8 point night was System generated.....the entire team worked a superior gameplan..... it was not fluke or fate....the Oilers were "experimenting" with the NewAge Possesion/Transition Style which Pat Quinn first used and introduced them to in 2009 and Sammy and others were showing spurts of ELITE RESULTS...ABSOLUTELY ELITE...and Gagner was the catalyst...he still remains so...remember the Kings followed the Oilers 2009 NewAge Possesion/Transition focuses beginning in 2012 and the Hawks did so in 2013 and many teams since to the degree that the entire NHL has begun to expeditiously evolve into a NewAge high speed high energy high offense airtight defensive Possesion/Transition League.

Now see this paragraph looks awfully familiar. I seem to recall another sage who peddled the New Age hockey system on this site some years ago? Anybody back me up on that or was that a different board?

 

[Supermassive]

No, that was here. That was this guy. Too similar to be two different guys.

 

[Jamie]

My prediction: value for Nail is too low and we end up keeping him, he ends up on a line with McDavid, becomes a 40 goal scorer, loves life, Connor loves Nail, they spend their life together (careers too). Connor lets the organization know they can never move Yakupov. It's going to happen.

 

[Replacement*]

I see. I thought you were suggesting that speed was one of Gagner's attributes. To the contrary his lack thereof has put his career in jeopardy imo.

What put Gagners career in jeopardy was his draft team hitting up for a few #1 picks which cast him into a 2nd line or worse role. No fault of Gagner who was a good enough young player here and seriously how many players hit for 49pts in a rookie year on a nothing line?

On most teams that would quickly parlay to that player being supported with good vet talent and fully developing the potential of that player. This is not on Sam Gagner, just that this is a terrible place to land.

Gagners able to stir offence if used in the right way. The talent is there, the seeing the ice is there. Gagner works a solid PP.

OK. I see what you were saying. I think you have described the strengths of Gagner as a player quite well. His first few strides are still pretty bad though. I guess it is what it is at his age now. Still and all, Gagner would be crazy to even accept calls from Edmonton at this point in his career. Not that I believe for a second they would be calling him anyway.

yep, just another example of this org improperly using players, not giving them any help, force feeding young players into difficult roles etc.

Now see this paragraph looks awfully familiar. I seem to recall another sage who peddled the New Age hockey system on this site some years ago? Anybody back me up on that or was that a different board?

Its the only other time I've heard it mentioned.

 

[Aerrol]

Bad Medicine is back? I missed these crazy essays!

 

[McDrailers]

I'll admit. I'm fairly new to the Oilers fanbase and Hf-Oil. (jumped on board with the drafting of Eberle...((Bandwagon Fan)). However. Is This medicine character a mainstay? Are we seriously discussing bringing Gagner back to help Yak?

Both are offense (Sometimes) only. Yak needs to be gone. Bad first overall and at this point were getting at most a second rounder or another project prospect.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

these days, a legit #4 dman is quite valuable. way more valuable then a 2nd line winger that is weak defensively.



he lost his position to Teddy ****ing Purcell!!!! If that's not in the running for weakest 1st overall, i don't know what is.

Daigle was way better, he just didn't like being a hockey player. Maybe Wickenheiser and Stefan were worse, but's that's 2!! Name another one. Not Nash. Not Lacavelier. Not Turgeon. Not Murphy. Not Fleury. Not Hamrlik. Not Phillips. Even Eric Johnson, I'd trade Yak for him yesterday!! Maybe, Neil Broten.

Yak is absolutely in the conversation for worst 1OA of all-time, and without a complete 180 in his career (which is still possible, I'll grant you that), its staying that way.

Desided to just avoid the Dipietro pick hey?

 

[McDrailers]

Desided to just avoid the Dipietro pick hey?

RickD had talent. He's a sad case of being made of wet noodles. Dipetro had talent. You can't really pin being an awful case of a #1 pick. Yak was drafted due to his goal scoring ability. Problem is, he doesn't do that.

Dipetro was drafted to stop pucks. He did that at an okay level until the pucks started breaking him in two.

 

[MoneyGuy]

My prediction: value for Nail is too low and we end up keeping him, he ends up on a line with McDavid, becomes a 40 goal scorer, loves life, Connor loves Nail, they spend their life together (careers too). Connor lets the organization know they can never move Yakupov. It's going to happen.

This is close to what I've been thinking. It could happen. Except for the hyperbole parts.

 

[slaman]

Desided to just avoid the Dipietro pick hey?

Patrik Å tefan would be more obvious no?

 

[dem]

I just can't help but believe there is a goal scorer in there..

10 goals/22gms in the KHL
17 goals/48gms in the NHL..

All in his draft+1 year..

The Oilers did a freaking number on this kid. God I hope he goes somewhere and gets it back. The confidence just oozed out of him in his rookie year.

 

[Replacement*]

I just can't help but believe there is a goal scorer in there..

10 goals/22gms in the KHL
17 goals/48gms in the NHL..

All in his draft+1 year..

The Oilers did a freaking number on this kid. God I hope he goes somewhere and gets it back. The confidence just oozed out of him in his rookie year.

Of course the kid can score goals. In the right situation with a team that believes in him and actually gives him toi, linemates, in which to succeed. With it not requiring a lot either, Roy ring a bell?

When Yak busts out of oilers purgatory theres little doubt in my mind he'll find his game.

its interesting that a lot of the Yak doubters were saying Drouin and yak are interchangeable and the same types, until Drouin was let out of the Tampa gulag and immediately went to work proving he is one of the best players in their org and was right to be demanding appropriate use the entire time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Of course the kid can score goals. In the right situation with a team that believes in him and actually gives him toi, linemates, in which to succeed. With it not requiring a lot either, Roy ring a bell?

When Yak busts out of oilers purgatory theres little doubt in my mind he'll find his game.

its interesting that a lot of the Yak doubters were saying Drouin and yak are interchangeable and the same types, until Drouin was let out of the Tampa gulag and immediately went to work proving he is one of the best players in their org and was right to be demanding appropriate use the entire time.

But Yak is purely one-dimensional and even then not that great at that one dimension. He should be a better goal scorer than Jordan Eberle. He's not.

 

[Cloned]

If you have to compare Yakupov to Stefan and Wickenheiser, you're already in big trouble.

 

[The Nuge]

But Yak is purely one-dimensional and even then not that great at that one dimension. He should be a better goal scorer than Jordan Eberle. He's not.

Eberle's career GPG is a 28 goal pace. Yak not being a 30 goal scorer from the bottom 6 isn't really a fair criticism. That said, his career pace of 16 goals isn't good enough, no matter where he's playing in the lineup