Eklund Rumor: (WPG/TOR) Nylander for Trouba

[Fogelhund]

Well, since you don't seem to have been watching very carefully, let's look at the numbers, shall we? (Hint: red and orange are bad, and dark blue is good).

View attachment 137921

Try running that again, just for last year. Rielly as a player has progressed a great deal, and had a very good year last year. Prior to last year, you would have been right. Last year, provides a different narrative. Particularly when you look under the hood... judge where the Quality of Competition was, and the Quality of Teammates....

Rielly had a better year last year, than Trouba. Prior Trouba had been better... but, Rielly's game has progressed, where Trouba hasn't as much. This isn't a diss on Trouba, I think he's just going to take a little longer to develop. Frankly, I think they are pretty equal, with one having strengths in some areas, the other better in others...

 

[Whileee]

Try running that again, just for last year. Rielly as a player has progressed a great deal, and had a very good year last year. Prior to last year, you would have been right. Last year, provides a different narrative. Particularly when you look under the hood... judge where the Quality of Competition was, and the Quality of Teammates....

Rielly had a better year last year, than Trouba. Prior Trouba had been better... but, Rielly's game has progressed, where Trouba hasn't as much. This isn't a diss on Trouba, I think he's just going to take a little longer to develop. Frankly, I think they are pretty equal, with one having strengths in some areas, the other better in others...

Guess what, when you look at last season you see that Trouba's defensive play has become even more dominant (in reducing expected goals against), and Rielly remains at the 8th percentile in expected goals against.

If you want to see how they defend shot attempts more visually, look below. Trouba is a stud in his own zone, while Rielly leaks shots against, especially from prime scoring locations.

 

[Fogelhund]

That's all swell and everything, but in the real world, the ACTUAL Goals against, when on ice, and it's ratio to team save percentage, is actually pretty much the same. This against harder competition, with poorer teammates for Rielly.

When you look at GAR/82
Tableau Public

or GAR/82 5on5
Tableau Public

Rielly ends up ahead, and moreso because these stats rank his defense as better than Troubas.


Reducing "expected goals against", is wonderful and all... but what actually counts, is "actual goals against".

Again, you don't have to be so incredibly defensive about your player. He's an excellent D, and I'd love to have him on the Leafs. I think Rielly and him could make a wonderful pairing down the road. I'm just not buying the "it's not arguable" that one is far better than the other. Both Leafs fans, and Jets fans are being homers here, when really, these guys are pretty close to each other overall.

 

[Snowman]

We've been through this a thousand times. Every advanced stat shows Trouba ahead of Rielly by light years, except for PP points. Rielly is not and never has been as good as Trouba. Not debatable at all.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Trouba is a dud, who wants out of Winnipeg, and probably Canada.

You don't get Nylander for a guy who wants out anyways.

Yep with his Fiancee Kelly Tyson going to Med School here in Florida Fort Lauderdale to be exact. He's probably looking at either Tampa or Florida as possible new homes.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Trouba is a dud, who wants out of Winnipeg, and probably Canada.

You don't get Nylander for a guy who wants out anyways.

You forgot the e at the end.

 

[Liferleafer]

We've been through this a thousand times. Every advanced stat shows Trouba ahead of Rielly by light years, except for PP points. Rielly is not and never has been as good as Trouba. Not debatable at all.

This isn't deflection...but who cares? From this Leafs fan's point of view, i want Trouba to pair WITH Rielly....they accent each other nicely, Rielly can drive the offense from the back end, Trouba provides sound defense...done. I don't even care if Rielly's partner provides offense, just be above average defensively...that's why i've been pushing for Tanev.....or pipe dream not available guys like Manson/Slavin/ McAvoy.

 

[Fogelhund]

We've been through this a thousand times. Every advanced stat shows Trouba ahead of Rielly by light years, except for PP points. Rielly is not and never has been as good as Trouba. Not debatable at all.

Sorry. False.

Every Advanced Stat?

GAR 82/ 5 on 5 Offense vs. Defense

Rielly 10.5 5/5 Def +0.6 Off 5.4
Trouba 6.1 5/5 Def -0.3 Off 5.4 <--- Note, Trouba was a NEGATIVE defensively according to GAR, and in the top left quadrant.

Tableau Public

Even strength points. Rielly 5 g, 22A - 27 points; Trouba 3 goals, 17 assists - 20 points

Rielly had a better CF% last year, a better relative CF% last year. Morgan had a better Point Share 6.8 to Trouba's 4.3 last year...

Rielly had a higher QOC last year, and still showed well, despite poorer quality linemates.

Again... this isn't to tear down Trouba at all.... just be objective. Overall, they are pretty equal in their contributions, and until last year, Trouba was ahead...

 

[Whileee]

That's all swell and everything, but in the real world, the ACTUAL Goals against, when on ice, and it's ratio to team save percentage, is actually pretty much the same. This against harder competition, with poorer teammates for Rielly.

When you look at GAR/82
Tableau Public

or GAR/82 5on5
Tableau Public

Rielly ends up ahead, and moreso because these stats rank his defense as better than Troubas.


Reducing "expected goals against", is wonderful and all... but what actually counts, is "actual goals against".

Again, you don't have to be so incredibly defensive about your player. He's an excellent D, and I'd love to have him on the Leafs. I think Rielly and him could make a wonderful pairing down the road. I'm just not buying the "it's not arguable" that one is far better than the other. Both Leafs fans, and Jets fans are being homers here, when really, these guys are pretty close to each other overall.

Okay, let's look at goals for %, if you don't like shot metrics.

2017/18, GF%

Trouba 55.1
Rielly 51.7

Jets had a bigger share of goals scored with Trouba on the ice than the Leafs with Rielly on the ice.

 

[Snowman]

This isn't deflection...but who cares? From this Leafs fan's point of view, i want Trouba to pair WITH Rielly....they accent each other nicely, Rielly can drive the offense from the back end, Trouba provides sound defense...done. I don't even care if Rielly's partner provides offense, just be above average defensively...that's why i've been pushing for Tanev.....or pipe dream not available guys like Manson/Slavin/ McAvoy.

Understood. I just gave in and decided to have some fun with the trolls.

 

[Liferleafer]

Understood. I just gave in and decided to have some fun with the trolls.

Fair enough...as a Leafs fan, i have learned to try not to engage....takes up to much of my time.

 

[Fogelhund]

Okay, let's look at goals for %, if you don't like shot metrics.

2017/18, GF%

Trouba 55.1
Rielly 51.7

Jets had a bigger share of goals scored with Trouba on the ice than the Leafs with Rielly on the ice.

and actual GF while on ice, EV strength Trouba 53, Rielly 67..... you know... real numbers.

The point should be.... they are pretty close. Ignore the trolls that say Trouba is a Dud, or the natural reactionary comeback from such stupidity. Ignore the trolls who say that Trouba is better in every measurable way, as that's false too... Trouba was better prior to last season, and IMO, Rielly had a better year last year, than Trouba did.

This isn't an argument about who is better... I'm not trying to say Rielly is better. There are some stats that favour Trouba, some that favour Rielly. They'd make a hell of a pairing.... I'm not sure that is an arguable point. ;-)

 

[CujosMask]

You forgot the e at the end.

OK hes not a dud, but he's a dude, who wants out.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

OK hes not a dud, but he's a dude, who wants out.

That's better!

 

[34]

Who said he was being shopped?

Last I heard was both parties were working on an extension.

Trouba is better than Rielly. Not arguable

Yeah right.

Rielly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouba

 

[Fogelhund]

Yeah right.

Rielly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouba

Quit making reasonable Leafs fans look bad. That's just a brutal take.

 

[34]

Quite making reasonable Leafs fans look bad. That's just a brutal take.

Wrong. Rielly is way better. He scored 52 points last year. Trouba has 24. He is not better defensively Either.

 

[Whileee]

and actual GF while on ice, EV strength Trouba 53, Rielly 67..... you know... real numbers.

The point should be.... they are pretty close. Ignore the trolls that say Trouba is a Dud, or the natural reactionary comeback from such stupidity. Ignore the trolls who say that Trouba is better in every measurable way, as that's false too... Trouba was better prior to last season, and IMO, Rielly had a better year last year, than Trouba did.

This isn't an argument about who is better... I'm not trying to say Rielly is better. There are some stats that favour Trouba, some that favour Rielly. They'd make a hell of a pairing.... I'm not sure that is an arguable point. ;-)

Ummmm... Rielly played 21 more games and about 36% more ice time overall. If you adjust GF for the same ice time Trouba would have exceeded Rielly by about 73 to 67goals.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Wrong. Rielly is way better. He scored 52 points last year. Trouba has 24. He is not better defensively Either.

Love the points argument. I can only assume that Keith Yandle is ahead of Rielly in your books then too.

Krug too.

 

[34]

Love the points argument. I can only assume that Keith Yandle is ahead of Rielly in your books then too.

Krug too.

I never said Trouba was a bad D man. He is actually very very good. Rielly is also a stud D. I never said Rielly is a bonified #1 like Doughty or Karlsson though.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I want Trouba+ to Florida for Eklbad.

 

[Fogelhund]

Ummmm... Rielly played 21 more games and about 36% more ice time overall. If you adjust GF for the same ice time Trouba would have exceeded Rielly by about 73 to 67goals.

Your math is off.... ... but the correct math is actually more like 84 goals... instead of 73....

 

[kittiecarlyle]

Yeah right.

Rielly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouba

Presume using multiple multiple > indicates you believe Rielly is vastly superior to Trouba. That alone would indicate there really is no further need for your input.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

I want Trouba+ to Florida for Eklbad.

Not an out the question option imo.

 

[ACC1224]

Presume using multiple multiple > indicates you believe Rielly is vastly superior to Trouba. That alone would indicate there really is no further need for your input.

Assuming of course that there was ever any need for their input.