Would trading Kadri for T. J. Brodie and Mark Jankowski worked out better?

[JT AM da real deal]

When your most noble warrior is Kadri you are in deep sh*t ... that is on Leaf mgmt ... what NHL allowed to happen to leafs in game 2 was beyond sane ... it was 70s Flyers BS ... it was a complete embarrassment to NHL ... to single out Kadri is a TOTAL and COMPLETE JOKE ... it made da NHL look like house league ... da elbows, da charges, da punches, da boards etc and nothing done to STOP it ... again what a JOKE

 

[zeke]

Kerfoot playing to his career averages, which he didn't this year, is good for 15 more points and massively better corsi numbers.

Kerfoot Scoring Paces:

16-17: ES 10:57, 27pts --- PP 2:28, 18pts
17-18: ES 12:45, 27pts --- PP 2:03, 17pts
18-19: ES 13:14, 32pts --- PP 1:15, 4pts

Only thing missing from Kerfoot's production this year is 1st unit PP opportunity.

And for whatever reason our 2nd PP unit has been bizarrely unproductive this year - Spezza 7pts, Hyman 6pts, Kerfoot 3pts, Kapanen 3pts.

 

[ACC1224]

As much as I like Kadri, the writing was on the wall and he had to go. He didn't fit any more, but he was essentially fired for getting suspended in the playoffs twice.

A lot of us liked the deal at the time, I know I did. Looking at the results, I'm unhappy with it now but I know that I hated him getting suspended (and potentially costing us the series, twice) even more. Barrie had a reputation in Colorado as a big game player and playoff stud, so all it will take is some big performances in the play-in/playoffs to completely change the narrative surrounding him. I hope to goodness that he does.

Yep, pretty much my thoughts exactly.

 

[zeke]

When your most noble warrior is Kadri you are in deep sh*t ... that is on Leaf mgmt ... what NHL allowed to happen to leafs in game 2 was beyond sane ... it was 70s Flyers BS ... it was a complete embarrassment to NHL ... to single out Kadri is a TOTAL and COMPLETE JOKE ... it made da NHL look like house league ... da elbows, da charges, da punches, da boards etc and nothing done to STOP it ... again what a JOKE

leafs looked just as good without Kadri, tbh.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yep, pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I hope we see Barrie play like he played vs Flames. But it was Flames not BJ's. Flames do not have nasty forecheck. Flames do not play neutral zone trap. Anywho I don't like to hope as it generally does not work. Hoping and praying don't do much.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I imagine it would've gone similarly poorly. In retrospect, we should've held onto Kadri longer for different opinions to become available. Probably Marleau too.

 

[LeafGrief]

Kerfoot Scoring Paces:

16-17: ES 10:57, 27pts --- PP 2:28, 18pts
17-18: ES 12:45, 27pts --- PP 2:03, 17pts
18-19: ES 13:14, 32pts --- PP 1:15, 4pts

Only thing missing from Kerfoot's production this year is 1st unit PP opportunity.

And for whatever reason our 2nd PP unit has been bizarrely unproductive this year - Spezza 7pts, Hyman 6pts, Kerfoot 3pts, Kapanen 3pts.

Well, that's disappointing because he will never get 1st PP time with us. 2nd PP definitely didn't click and that improving will hopefully get him a few more points, but it's a real drag if he's only going to be a 35ish point guy. Closes the gap to Wallmark a bit.

 

[The Iceman]

Looking back on the whole scenario, it was a very poor decision to go all-in on one cheap year of Tyson Barrie with a wild card center downgrade in Alexander Kerfoot. The timeline was short and the fit was questionable.

If the Leafs are reading, I would suggest one idea: whenever a quality player is being removed from the roster in the future, I think the Leafs should not only consider the straight across trade scenario for a need (which is sometimes limited), but also think about making the trade for pure futures. If we had to trade Kadri somewhere, we could have moved him somewhere for picks and prospects, free up the cap space cleanly and then go shopping which may include more UFA flexibility or allow us to trade something more attractive to a rebuilding team. We need to be creative and open up more space to maneuver. Also helps keep quality players off contending rosters.

What Dubas went into the off season last year as his trade chip was Kadri. Leafs were set at 1 and 2 centre position and had a luxury item Kadri as their 3rd line centre. In the Leafs cap situation they do not have the luxury of overpaying guys in the bottom 6.
So trade Kadri to fill their biggest need RHD, have Colorado retain salary and plug a lesser player in Kerfoot to fill in a bottom 6 role.

In theory a great trade. I know I was excited when it went through. The fact that Barrie has had a sub par year and Kerfoot hasn't been great sux for us but given the situation it was the right thing to do IMO.

 

[zeke]

Well, that's disappointing because he will never get 1st PP time with us. 2nd PP definitely didn't click and that improving will hopefully get him a few more points, but it's a real drag if he's only going to be a 35ish point guy. Closes the gap to Wallmark a bit.

Only if you care about individual scoring totals. Whether a guy gets PP time or not doesn't change anything about what he brings at ES. Our PP is better with Kadri removed from it, so his PP production for us was actually hurting us, not helping us - we would have been better off last year with Kadri not getting his PP production, and Willy on that top unit instead.

Wallmark has paced at 21 ES pts his last 2 seasons btw. Gauthier has paced 16 ES pts the last 2 seasons, with many fewer minutes.

 

[LeafGrief]

Only if you care about individual scoring totals. Whether a guy gets PP time or not doesn't change anything about what he brings at ES. Our PP is better with Kadri removed from it, so his PP production for us was actually hurting us, not helping us - we would have been better off last year with Kadri not getting his PP production, and Willy on that top unit instead.

Wallmark has paced at 21 ES pts his last 2 seasons btw. Gauthier has paced 16 ES pts the last 2 seasons, with many fewer minutes.

I'm looking at individual scoring totals in attempts to compare Kerfoot and Wallmark, not Kerfoot and Kadri. Kadri being gone is a foregone conclusion in this thread and I'm not worried about that. Agreed that we would have been better last year with Willy on the 1st PP, but I think that more because Willy is terrific on the PP than anything to do with Kadri.

The numbers for Wallmark seem to support the notion that Wallmark really isn't anywhere near as good as Kerfoot, which matches the general impressions that I had about him.

And while I note and agree that ES is more important than the PP time, ability to produce on the PP is an important attribute for a player and in no ways a given. I want to see Kerfoot put up much better PP numbers, it would be a real negative if he's only capable of cashing in on prime PP time with stars like Mackinnon and Rantanen.

 

[Stephen]

What Dubas went into the off season last year as his trade chip was Kadri. Leafs were set at 1 and 2 centre position and had a luxury item Kadri as their 3rd line centre. In the Leafs cap situation they do not have the luxury of overpaying guys in the bottom 6.
So trade Kadri to fill their biggest need RHD, have Colorado retain salary and plug a lesser player in Kerfoot to fill in a bottom 6 role.

In theory a great trade. I know I was excited when it went through. The fact that Barrie has had a sub par year and Kerfoot hasn't been great sux for us but given the situation it was the right thing to do IMO.

You’re not wrong about your initial optimism but 20/20 hindsight shows us the deal was problematic for its short term planning and the fit didn’t work well on the ice.

It was the “right” thing to do insofar as keeping Garret Sparks over McBackup was the right rational thing to do. But a GM also can’t be conceptually right on everything but nothing works out either.

 

[zeke]

I'm looking at individual scoring totals in attempts to compare Kerfoot and Wallmark, not Kerfoot and Kadri.

why not look at all of them for fun?

Even Strength Paces, last 2yrs

Kadri 37pts
Kerfoot 30pts
Wallmark 22pts
Spezza 20pts
Jankowski 19pts
Gauthier 16pts

 

[zeke]

You’re not wrong about your initial optimism but 20/20 hindsight shows us the deal was problematic for its short term planning and the fit didn’t work well on the ice.

for the record, on the ice, the deal gave us the same ES production with better possession at the center position, and a very good puck moving offensive rhd on top of that.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Perhaps, but likely not. He possibly could've fit better with Rielly, but it's hard to say, or even if Brodie is as good without Giordano.

The issue is you're still adding a UFA you're unlikely to keep and not likely using Kadri as an asset in the best way.

 

[LeafGrief]

why not look at all of them for fun?

Even Strength Paces, last 2yrs

Kadri 37pts
Kerfoot 30pts
Wallmark 22pts
Spezza 20pts
Jankowski 19pts
Gauthier 16pts

Very fun!

 

[Stephen]

for the record, on the ice, the deal gave us the same ES production with better possession at the center position, and a very good puck moving offensive rhd on top of that.

I mean look, the deal didn’t bridge the gap between the Leafs and Boston/Tampa, which is the goal of a finishing piece like that, so that’s my snapshot judgement in time. Maybe we win the Summer Stanley Cup with Barrie, or at least advance a couple of rounds. Then maybe we have a happy ending to this trade.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

People are underrating Jankowski's PK ability which would be helpful to the team.

 

[zeke]

I mean look, the deal didn’t bridge the gap between the Leafs and Boston/Tampa, which is the goal of a finishing piece like that, so that’s my snapshot judgement in time. Maybe we win the Summer Stanley Cup with Barrie, or at least advance a couple of rounds. Then maybe we have a happy ending to this trade.

Fair argument.

Personally, i still think it might have, but our goaltending may have sabotaged the optics on that.

We shall see soon, covid willing.

 

[Fogelhund]

I find it hard to believe there were only two clubs interested in Nazem Kadri. If anything we could have even gone after future assets from Colorado if they were so interested in him. Then the key would have been to have found a defenseman for the second leg of the deal.

I didn't suggest that there were only two clubs available. I asked if a move, Kadri for futures was even available. Was there a deal, to obrain the right defenseman, purely for those futures? We can hypothesize all we want, but it doesn't mean that such deals were available. It seems improbable to me, that Dubas only called Calgary, and then only called Colorado, and didn't pursue any other options. It seems likely to me, he made the calls, and this was the best that he was going to get... to help with RD, and #3C, and be cap compliant... and it worked pretty good, for one season. Barrie was decent under Keefe, and Kerfoot isn't such a huge downgrade, to sink the club.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Jankowski is Gauthier-level, and Brodie isn't better than Barrie.

Not even defensively? I would think, that the Leafs allow less goals.

 

[LeafsNation75]

They could always have turned around and moved that currency for the player they desired.
Dubas would have realised there were many other options. He chose the one he did because he liked the deal.

Since Kadri has a modified NTC which included a 10 team no trade list, what guarantee would they have got a 1st round pick for him because of that? Plus after his back to back playoff suspensions, how many teams would want to give up a 1st round pick for him?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

this isn't a perfect way of looking at it, but if Brodie had 19 points and Jankowski had 7 for the Leafs, and Barrie had 39 points and Kerfoot had 28 with the Avs, nobody would be saying they were happy with the Flames package

 

[ACC1224]

Since Kadri has a modified NTC which included a 10 team no trade list, what guarantee would they have got a 1st round pick for him because of that? Plus after his back to back playoff suspensions, how many teams would want to give up a 1st round pick for him?

There are never any guarantees in life. I would think most would value Kadri as being worth a 1st.
Suspensions imo are irrelevant. I don’t think any interested team would care about that. Calgary didn’t, Colorado didn’t. Do we know of any teams that did?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

People are underrating Jankowski's PK ability which would be helpful to the team.

the Leafs give up 6.09 expected goals against/60, Jank gave up 7.36 on Calgary. The only thing that would've helped Toronto's PK is goaltending, which he unfortunately could not help with

 

[Drew311]

Brodie is better defensively than Barrie and he would be a decent fit with Rielly (Brodie can play the right side). I guess getting Kerfoot in the deal makes the Colorado deal better, but i'm not sure he's a great fit. Maybe if we can get a 2nd and prospect for Kerfoot that could make things look better.

Jankowski is Gauthier-level, and Brodie isn't better than Barrie.