Prospect Info: World Junior Summer Showcase [July 29-Aug 5]
- Thread starter tigervixxxen
- Start date
The concerns I have for him aren't really if he busts are not. After seeing him much more I still think he has the potential to be a #2 defender for the NHL or AHL.
I don't have concerns about his talent either as I had him as a first rounder as well. What I do have concerns about is how much talent he has, playing in a water downed league might have overestimated his game. From this tournament, he has solidified himself as a 1st round talent, but thus far haven't seen the dynamism to be worth 4th overall over players like Pettersson, Andersson, or Vilardi. This doesn't mean he doesn't have the talent to be worth it in the top 5 or 10, but he's a tad too raw in his current state.
If he consistently posts up good numbers and form over the year at UMass as a freshman (which I am not expecting PPG) then I will have less concerns.
You should've seen Anderson during the NCAA tournament, was way better there than here. Really underrated player.
I would still want Dubois in a Duchene trade, but man he was disappointing. I expected a bit more offencive danger from him, but didn't really deliver at all. I would say that I never saw him as a catalyst like Dylan Strome isn't one either. Both are what you consider secondary pieces like Sean Couturier is IMHO. Nevertheless, should have had more of a bulldog personality which Givani Smith was for Canada who I thought had a good showcase.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 49,577
- 52,767
Now that the lack of size is no longer a concern, that's the only reason left that anyone can have. Glad that he already started to prove people wrong on that one, too.
Makar was one of the most dynamic player of his draft class according to pretty much everyone and the reason Vilardi dropped out of the top 10 was because of his lack of dynamism/explosiveness/skating. And now you're saying Makar lacks dynamism compared to Vilardi.
I swear sometimes you can have the weirdest emotionally driven statements.
I don't agree with SEPH's assessment of Makar, as I feel he is shortchanging him based on a bias against the AJHL (and other tier 2 junior leagues). But his statement that Makar has not shown the dynamism to warrant being taken before Vilardi et al is not comparing the relative dynamism...it is just stating that Makar is not dynamic enough (in his opinion) to have been taken before those other guys with their particular skill sets (of which creative play is not included for Gabe).
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
The AJHL is a pretty low end league. That doesn't mean good players cannot come out of it, but domination in that league is quite simply easier than it is in the WHL. It is more difficult to evaluate how good a player is when they have faced lower end competition. That goes for all leagues... just because somebody can tear up the ECHL at a 1.5ppg level doesn't mean they can translate to a 30 point NHLer.
Where I disagree with SEPH is the idea that Makar doesn't show that dynamic skill set. To me it is clear (and has been) that Makar has a dynamic skill set and it is awfully enticing. There are just such large questions about how it translates to upper leagues and the level of the dynamism. The same question was thrown around Mittelstadt, but he had proven things at a higher level at the u18s and USHL to hold back as much criticism. Including Vilardi as a dynamic player though seems way off... I like Vilardi as a top 10 player in this draft, but he isn't what I'd call dynamic.
Where I disagree with SEPH is the idea that Makar doesn't show that dynamic skill set. To me it is clear (and has been) that Makar has a dynamic skill set and it is awfully enticing. There are just such large questions about how it translates to upper leagues and the level of the dynamism. The same question was thrown around Mittelstadt, but he had proven things at a higher level at the u18s and USHL to hold back as much criticism. Including Vilardi as a dynamic player though seems way off... I like Vilardi as a top 10 player in this draft, but he isn't what I'd call dynamic.
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
- 7,624
- 3,246
Makar will be going to the lowest end college, but playing in likely the best NCAA division in the country. He will get plenty of playing time and expected to practically carry the entire team every game. Expect a lot of losses and disappointment. With this much confidence and pressure in his skills, the AVs will learn soon enough to support their decision on the high draft position.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
I see a lot of talk about UMass' team being terrible... I really don't think that team will be bad at all. They just pulled in at worst a top 5 class, and might be the best class in all of college hockey. They will likely be the most improved team in college hockey. They will be solid, and I think they will compete for a tournament spot. Even beyond Makar they brought in Ferraro, Albrecht, Lagunov (who probably should have been drafted), and Murray who will all make an immediate impact. Couturier will be on the top pairing with Makar. They have a really solid basis for a good defensive team, and if Makar and Ferraro can bring the offense from the backend (like they are capable of), they will be a tough team to beat.
Size is no longer a concern? Because some people think he doesn't look small? The guy is still 5'11" and the fact remains that there are only a handful of guys that size who can successfully play top pair in the NHL. Until he actually becomes a top pair NHLer then his size will always be a concern.
Makar was one of the most dynamic players in a league where it's a lot easier to be dynamic. Vilardi might not have the skating, but that doesn't mean he isn't dynamic. I swear some of you guys judge guys strictly on how well they skate. Makar was not dynamic this past week. He was playing much more of a safe game and he would pass the puvk almost instantly every time he touched it. He had a good tourny. And I personally liked seeing a more structured game from him more so than showing off his dynamism. But he really wasn't dynamic this past week.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,152
- 37,330
That's the way he played pretty much every time I've seen him with Brooks as well. Makar has dynamic ability but I don't think he's ever been the type to flaunt it all game long. I think the "safe" part of his game is what makes him so desirable and what gives him the Karlsson comparisons. He has game changing ability. Can take over when needed, but wont put his team at risk all game long.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Comparing a defenseman to forwards in dynamics isn't an even comparison. They aren't even supposed to operate the same way. I'm not going to begin to worry Makar isn't flashy enough because I agree with Eddie that he doesn't need to be flashy and you can tell he wants to move the puck first and foremost.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
Vilardi isn't dynamic because of the style of game he plays... not just because of his skating. It is a simple, puck possession game that relies on excellent board work. Putting up offensive numbers doesn't equate to being a dynamic player.
To me, Makar's dynamic ability is the way he can control and pace the game. Not his flashy skating and times where he controls the puck in the offensive zone for 30 seconds. It is a special quality that IF (and it is a significant if because only the elite can do it in the NHL) that translates, he will be special... if not, he will have issues being more than a middle pairing player. I don't think he outright showed it in what I saw, but he showed flashes of it.
The one game I saw I can see the pass right away concept. That's one thing I like about him compared to a guy like Barrie. But I wouldn't call him safe (again, based on the one game). Dude was all over the ice, chasing the puck everywhere. Didn't really seem to have any structure. You could actually tell what position he played this past week.
This is a good assessment. UMass is a much better team on paper this year than last. I'm not sure about tournament or not but improved for sure. They play in tough league, and a jump from last to tournament would be a lot to ask. But I foresee that them being over .500 for sure and tougher team to play against.
I think sometimes people forget that NCAA rosters change drastically year to year and teams can get significantly better or worse really quickly. It's not like the NHL where we were bad last year so most likely we are going to be bad this year.
I'm pretty excited to follow NCAA hockey this year in terms of our prospects, we've got Makar, Morrison, and Smirnov. Makar could easily be the best freshman in the NCAA, Smirnov should be in the running for the Hobey Baker I could see him in the 60pts range, and I'm expecting a big year from Morrison who really turned it on near the end of last year. I think Morrison is fully capable of 25 goals and maybe 45-50pts.
I wasn't making any type of emotionally driven statement there. I said in the past I hope I am wrong about Makar, it's not like I have a personal vendetta against him. Tweaky in this post tells you what I really mean...
Absolutely yes, in his current state I haven't seen the dynamic ability which deserved to be taken at #4. He wasn't bad at all in this tournament, he was the opposite as he had a solid performance, but you wanted to see more confidence with the puck. It's not that he didn't do it, but I don't think he did it enough, as I said in my last post he looked quite raw. I also thought that his decisions with the puck were hit and miss at times. His best ability I saw was when to jump up in the play or not. He has the potential to be really good, but we are today and not two years in the future. While the size claim is too stupid, I don't think I ever used his size as an issue, we've seen in the new NHL that the Shayne Gostibehere is the type of defender everyone now wants.
I do disagree with your statement that I am biased against the AJHL, I don't think I am, I think it is a waterdowned league. As from what I've seen, the best Albertan prospects go to the BCHL, USHL, and WHL. They rarely try to stay in the AJHL area if they want to make the NHL. These three leagues are just better and more scouted leagues over the AJHL.
As for Vilardi and his skating, we've seen it countless number of times when players fall because an issue with his skating which he fixes and makes everyone else look like fools. We went through it with Ryan O'Reilly and the ten or so teams that didn't like his skating looked awfully stupid. Likewise with Draisaitl and Buffalo grabbing Reinhart over him, look awfully foolish. Once he gets faster, he's going to prove that he was a top 3-5 player in this draft.
I wasn't trying or even comparing a defenders to a forwards dynamic ability. Just saying that because Makar played in a lower league, he might've been more "dynamic" in a lesser league than he would be in the WHL where he could've looked like Jake Bean for instance.
I'm looking at Makar in a pathway type of question...
Did Makar at his current level deserved to be take at #4?
|-----------------------------------|
[Yes]-----------------------------[No]
---------------------------------[Is he better than the forwards drafted after him?]
--------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
------------------------------[YES]-----------------------------------------[No]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------[Would you prefer another player instead?]
|-----------------------------------|
[Yes]-----------------------------[No]
---------------------------------[Is he better than the forwards drafted after him?]
--------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
------------------------------[YES]-----------------------------------------[No]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------[Would you prefer another player instead?]
So forth and so forth.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
In a similar vein, should we start a Hlinka tournament thread, or just open the 2018 draft thread? Miftakhov was phenomenal today.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Gigantor The Goalie
Speak for the Goalies
That's quite the stretch. He did well in the shootout and overtime. Apart from that though I wasn't impressed. I did like how he was tracking the puck and keeping his form. I didn't like how he was stopping the pucks. Too often he was just letting the puck hit him rather than directing it. Russia should have won the game in regulation with how often Gravel was allowing himself to be abused glove side.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
Canada was easily the better team today and Miftakhov was the reason Russia won. I will agree that he had form breakdowns (I think a lot of young Russian goalies have these), but he showed the athleticism and compete I like in goalies. This was my first real viewing of the kid... I liked what I saw.
Gravel was pretty bad, but I expected that.
landy92mack29
Registered User
Canada spread the ice time around so not many truly stood out but thought Veleno and Addison were the best while the only bad game came from McIsaac.
For Russia I did think Miftakhov was good but not like he stood on his head. Canada missed a lot of chances. Ruslan Iskhakov has a ton of talent but is extremely small. Yegor Sokolov was decent but his combination of size+skill is very intriguing. Glad he's coming over to play in Cape Breton
For Russia I did think Miftakhov was good but not like he stood on his head. Canada missed a lot of chances. Ruslan Iskhakov has a ton of talent but is extremely small. Yegor Sokolov was decent but his combination of size+skill is very intriguing. Glad he's coming over to play in Cape Breton
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,990
- 47,259
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
- 14,167
- 12,222
Yeah... Look at the height listings for the rest of the players. Just because he didn't look small in comparison to most of the other players on the ice doesn't mean he's big now. There were not a lot of really big body players out there (some yes, but not the majority). The NHL hasn't become a league in which 5'11 isn't short overnight.
I agree with you that Makar needed to show more aggression early in the tournament, but you are not giving him credit for the improvements he made over the week. The Saturday game was a much more confident player. I sat right behind him on Tuesday, and you could see how frustrated he was every time he came off the ice. It was a pretty casual game, and most of the guys who knew each other were all talking a laughing. Then there was Makar at the end of the bench frustrated.
Again that started to change as the week went on. My comments about that aspect of him acclimating to the level of play, and being an outsider at first are for a reason. You can't dismiss it.
Also I can't say enough how his intelligence stood out in the way of being in the right place at the right time as an outlet for his team mates as well. You can't see the way defenders play away from the puck as well on video. His intelligence there stood out enough to be impressive and unexpected more than just adequate or enough to give less concern. He reads the play as it's coming at him at a very high level, and his skating ability combined with his stick made him very formidable. If he becomes elite in the NHL it will be much more like a Suter, OEL, or Keith than Karlsson IMO. If his IQ on both sides of the puck translates to the higher levels in the same way he showed this past week. We really might have a player here, and so far so good. I don't think anyone should be questioning his ability to be dynamic if him pulling back a touch means the level of defensive play he showed. To me his reads away from the puck were the question far more than his ability to move the puck up the ice. At least when predicting his ability to end up on a top pairing in the NHL. I wanted to see what he looked like against the puck, and away from it in competition with other peers that are likely to make up the next incoming class of NHL players.
I think picking apart how dynamic his game has been in order to see if hes worth being selected 4th O/A is the wrong way to go. You want a player who can play on both sides of the puck well enough to play on the top pairing there. For those who don't want a Tyson Barrie selected 4th O/A, I think seeing how he defended a higher class of player was far more important. Our chances of having selected a player who can put up the offense that Karlsson does in order to be a top pair player standing on it alone, are a ****ing scary level of slim to none. (I'm aware Karlsson has gotten far better there as well)
On PLD, he really didn't give a **** most of the week. He played much better Saturday, and it made it even more obvious he was just going through the motions most of the week.
I don't know anything about Smith beyond this week, but he was impressive. He got himself onto the top line by Saturday, and didn't look out of place.
