GWT: World Cup - Semifinals - Croatia v. Argentina

[Evilo]

Paredes is a hothead and lacks discipline. Always makes a rash challenge and concedes needless free kicks like he did today as usual. I'd rather have Guido is is well disciplined and patrols his area or even Licha. Not Paredes.

He was lucky not to be sent off against Holland and completely caused the side to lose focus against Holland as did Scaloni. Awful substitution.

He's a hothead but gets severely underrated here. He's a very good passer and a good shooter. If he had self control, he could be a very good player. But he loves nothing more (and sometimes, it even gets him going) than to get into fights and provocation.

 

[PK]

I don't hold it against those players.
Pele could do everything. BUT he never tried to play against the best.
Maradona had several unreal patches, but was often very average and a cokehead.
Platini was unreal for 3-4 years, but that peak is too short.
Cruyff was amazing in multiple aspects, but even with a golden generation he couldn't win a WC.
And so on and so on.

Brazilian league was the best league in the world at the time. How come he didn’t try to play against the best?

 

[Evilo]

Brazilian league was the best league in the world at the time. How come he didn’t try to play against the best?

No it wasn't.

 

[PK]

No it wasn't.

Yes it was.

 

[Evilo]

Well I disagree.

 

[Panteras]

It's hard to determine who the GOAT is becase I feel like there have been so many special players in this sport in each era, but I can say that both Messi and Ronaldo are easily among the greatest to ever do it.

In chronological order you have Puskas, Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Platini, Brazil Ronaldo, Zidane, C Ronaldo, and Messi (those are the gods of gods in football)

You’re forgetting Harry Maguire in that list.

 

[Corto]

Brazilian league was the best league in the world at the time. How come he didn’t try to play against the best?

Nah, it wasn't.

 

[Karterthadon]

The same way people think Mario could have been at Gretzky's level and was arguably more talented.

I don't think it's controversial at all to say this, Mario Lemieux was the most naturally talented hockey player of all time. A career and natural ability are two separate conversations altogether.

I have no problem saying Maradona was the most talented player ever. But IMO, he didn't even have the best career of the 80s. His 86 WC is one to remember, he was unplayable. But so was Platini in 84.

I'd say Ronaldinho is ahead of him on that front. Dinho was the Mario Lemieux of football imo, he was like a real life FIFA player who had a 99 rating in every category; speed, strength, dribbling, dead balls, passing, vision, etc.

Dude won a Ballon d'Or while going clubbing every night and showing up to practice once a week in what was arguably the greatest era of football, that's literally insane lol.

 

[Evilo]

As a huge Lemieux fan, I agree it's not controversial, and I didn't mean it as it should be. As I said, Maradona is to me the most talented player ever but didn't make the most out of his career.
Completely disagree on Dinho. He was a formidable talent, but Maradona was a tier of his own IMO.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think this situation kinda reminds me of Washington cup run in 2018 when teams losing to them were somewhat accepting it hoping that Ovie finally gets his cup, even the Pens.

I think if France makes it to the final and loses, they won’t be extremely disappointed and actually happy for Messi

No, everyone on the Pens board were rooting for their opponents, especially in the finals (Fleury factor). We did not give a f*** about Ovechkin winning.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah f*** Ovie.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Yeah f*** Ovie.

One thing we can agree on.

The other: Viva Mbappé

 

[Evilo]

and also f*** Real.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

and also f*** Real.

Sorry, what are you saying, my 14 CL "rings" are plugging all my orifices.

 

[Evilo]

Sorry, what are you saying, my 14 CL "rings" are plugging all my orifices.

I had no doubt you +++++++ your +++++++ with anything you could find

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I had no doubt you +++++++ your +++++++ with anything you could find

Learned that from Patrick Roy.

 

[BahlDeep]

You can always compare other players to Messi in a certain ability (Playmaking, goalscoring, etc).

You might have some players better in a specific category (i.e. Ronaldo MIGHT have a slight advantage in the goalscoring department), however Messi blows him out of the water in everything else.

This is what makes Messi the GOAT. We have never seen a more complete player.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I'd say Ronaldinho is ahead of him on that front. Dinho was the Mario Lemieux of football imo, he was like a real life FIFA player who had a 99 rating in every category; speed, strength, dribbling, dead balls, passing, vision, etc.

Dude won a Ballon d'Or while going clubbing every night and showing up to practice once a week in what was arguably the greatest era of football, that's literally insane lol.

It does Mario Lemieux a HUGE disservice to compare him to Ronaldinho. Lemieux had all the talent in the world and turned it into a top 4 career, not just top 4 peak.

Ronaldinho had all the talent in the world and turned it into a few great seasons. Better all-time comparison, IMO, is someone like Peter Forsberg. Obviously very different reasons why they were unable to penetrate the upper upper tier of all-time players, but a remarkable peak at around the same time.

 

[Karterthadon]

It does Mario Lemieux a HUGE disservice to compare him to Ronaldinho. Lemieux had all the talent in the world and turned it into a top 4 career, not just top 4 peak.

Ronaldinho had all the talent in the world and turned it into a few great seasons. Better all-time comparison, IMO, is someone like Peter Forsberg. Obviously very different reasons why they were unable to penetrate the upper upper tier of all-time players, but a remarkable peak at around the same time.

Again, we're talking about natural God given ability, not careers. When it comes to football, I believe that conversation is between Maradonna and Ronnie. In hockey, it's Lemieux.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It does Mario Lemieux a HUGE disservice to compare him to Ronaldinho. Lemieux had all the talent in the world and turned it into a top 4 career, not just top 4 peak.

Ronaldinho had all the talent in the world and turned it into a few great seasons. Better all-time comparison, IMO, is someone like Peter Forsberg. Obviously very different reasons why they were unable to penetrate the upper upper tier of all-time players, but a remarkable peak at around the same time.

In terms of impact of the player and reputation, perhaps. But when it comes to WHY they missed time and/or regressed quickly, Ronaldinho is closer to Mike Ribeiro than Peter Forsberg.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

In terms of impact of the player and reputation, perhaps. But when it comes to WHY they missed time and/or regressed quickly, Ronaldinho is closer to Mike Ribeiro than Peter Forsberg.

People mix up flash with skill... Messi infantilely more talented than Dinho. More effective dribbler, better playmaker, scorer and FK. This all takes talent. Really there's no argument for anyone.

 

[Evilo]

I agree.

 

[thomast]

People mix up flash with skill... Messi infantilely more talented than Dinho. More effective dribbler, better playmaker, scorer and FK. This all takes talent. Really there's no argument for anyone.

Agreed, but Ronaldinho at prime was a true artist, watching his game was like watching art. He is the most entertaining player i’ve ever witnessed by good margin. Messi is the goat for me if he wins the WC.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

People mix up flash with skill... Messi infantilely more talented than Dinho. More effective dribbler, better playmaker, scorer and FK. This all takes talent. Really there's no argument for anyone.

Very good point.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Agreed, but Ronaldinho at prime was a true artist, watching his game was like watching art. He is the most entertaining player i’ve ever witnessed by good margin. Messi is the goat for me if he wins the WC.

Dinho was very fun to watcg but personally no one entertains me more than Messi.... obviously. He's the total package. If you like dribbles you can get your fix from him. Goals, long shots, FK, or passes he has you covered.

One reason I love watching KDB play are his passes and the way he controls the midfield he's not overly flashy but its just a preference.