With Crosby and Malkin’s success does Jagr deserve to have his number retired?

[Al Smith]

Something I've noticed about the Jagr debate is you can usually tell how old a person is by which side of it they argue. Folks who were adults, more or less, when Jagr was a Pen tend to be in the 'No' category. Those who were children or never actually got to watch him play during that time tend to be in the 'Yes' category.

Count me as an old outlier too.

 

[Albatros]

Jagr played more games for the Devils than for Kladno. If there's one team that should retire his number that's Pittsburgh. After Crosby, fine, but eventually the day will come.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That's not my point, but okay.

 

[KIRK]

There are always outliers. Which is why I said 'usually' and 'tend'.

Count me among the outliers.

 

[The GM]

If they retire jags number they should also retire the number of the player he passed the pens torch to, Rico fata

 

[HandshakeLine]

Count me among the outliers.

I always figured you were a few standard deviations out.

 

[NhlFan84]

I saw him and loved him, but when people think Jagr, they do not automatically think Penguins. Sid, Geno and Lemieux, yup.

Retiring a number is not just about performance (Jagr has that covered and then some), but also about what the player means to the franchise. I do not think Jagr, as a player and especially as a person, means that much to the franchise anymore.

I disagree. Maybe I'm just a biased fan, but when I think of the legacy of Jagr, the first thought that pops into my mind is his absolute dominance in Pittsburgh. Everything else is an afterthought. You have to consider that he played a very long career.

As for retiring his number, I would. Did he rub us the wrong way going to Philly? Absolutely, but that doesn't discredit what he means to this franchise. It is unfortunate that this team was absolutely hitrocious during the peak end of his tenure with us. Despite being the worst team in the NHL without him, he still ran circles around the league and was a joy to watch. If we had even a decent product to build around him, I'm quite confident he would have stayed here longer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I grew up watching Jagr. I know all about the dumb shit he's said over the years. I know how weird he is. I am very aware of the way things went down.

He should absolutely have his number retired. It's always boggled my mind how much people try to downplay his importance to this franchise just because he's a bit of a weirdo douchebag.

 

[NhlFan84]

I don’t see how Jagr is above Malkin tbh. What did Jagr really do in any of the cup runs / post season that is comparable to Malkin’s Conn Smythe + Conn Smythe worthy run in 2017?

That’s where the argument stems from, the Penguins don’t retire “elite” players numbers. They retire generational Penguins numbers. Jagr was a Penguin at some point. Sid and Geno regardless of where they go or what they do will be Penguins for the rest of their career and post career.

No offense to Malkin. He's a generational talent, but he can't hold Jagrs jockstrap, even in his prime. Jagr is 2nd in all time scoring, with 56% of his numbers coming in a Penguins uniform. He had 1,079 points to be exact in his Penguins tenure, reaching this by age 29. Malkin is 32 and is only nearing the 1k milestone this year. Keep in mind Jagr played in the lowest scoring era for most of these years, and still lit the league on fire.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

I can agree with points from both sides but in all honesty, it doesn’t matter to me. If his number gets retired, great! If not, I won’t be dying inside about it.

 

[Gurglesons]

No offense to Malkin. He's a generational talent, but he can't hold Jagrs jockstrap, even in his prime. Jagr is 2nd in all time scoring, with 56% of his numbers coming in a Penguins uniform. He had 1,079 points to be exact in his Penguins tenure, reaching this by age 29. Malkin is 32 and is only nearing the 1k milestone this year. Keep in mind Jagr played in the lowest scoring era for most of these years, and still lit the league on fire.

Jagr is the better player, Malkin has the better resume as a Penguin.

 

[ColePens]

My thoughts on Jagr are simple. He's (right now) the 5th GOAT hockey player, IMO. His time in Pittsburgh should be celebrated, however not honored by a jersey being hung. Mario's should be the only one until Geno/Sid have theirs retired. And it's simple - Jagr (RIGHTFULLY) left the team and played the majority of his career elsewhere. So be it. I actually think more athletes should be taking the best offer and situation for themselves. Nobody is obligated to stay in one city that they weren't even born in or have any family in just because. Go get paid and be in the best spot for your family.

So while his career should be honored, it should be honored across the game and not in Pittsburgh. His jersey number should not be retired here.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Maybe we can use the recent number retirement of Paul “The Rat” Kariya as an example. A player who was a face of the franchise and left for greener pastures.
Maybe once Jagr gets into the HHOF, the Pens will consider retiring his number.

 

[Gurglesons]

My thoughts on Jagr are simple. He's (right now) the 5th GOAT hockey player, IMO. His time in Pittsburgh should be celebrated, however not honored by a jersey being hung. Mario's should be the only one until Geno/Sid have theirs retired. And it's simple - Jagr (RIGHTFULLY) left the team and played the majority of his career elsewhere. So be it. I actually think more athletes should be taking the best offer and situation for themselves. Nobody is obligated to stay in one city that they weren't even born in or have any family in just because. Go get paid and be in the best spot for your family.

So while his career should be honored, it should be honored across the game and not in Pittsburgh. His jersey number should not be retired here.

This is my exact view. I honestly have no huge problem with Jags decisions, attitude and behavior. He’s a unique dude and an absolute monster. But, those decisions do effects his legacy here and we don’t need to retire his number when we have 3 superstars that have been complete class.

 

[EightyOne]

Maybe we can use the recent number retirement of Paul “The Rat” Kariya as an example. A player who was a face of the franchise and left for greener pastures.
Maybe once Jagr gets into the HHOF, the Pens will consider retiring his number.

Signing elsewhere as a FA does not equal to bad mouthing the franchise and asking for a trade out.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Signing elsewhere as a FA does not equal to bad mouthing the franchise and asking for a trade out.

No, but for some, his reasoning for wanting to sign with Colorado were ridiculous considering his team just lost in the Finals. Not to mention what he said in the post final rally speech.

 

[EightyOne]

No, but for some, his reasoning for wanting to sign with Colorado were ridiculous considering his team just lost in the Finals. Not to mention what he said in the post final rally speech.

Both GM and Kariya screwed each other a bit. Saying he'd be back after an emotional high, then thinking, hmmm management is seriously f***ed here, I'm out, isn't that crazy. There wasn't really a culture of championships in ANA. Their Finals appearance was kinda a fluke.

Officially left to go try and play with his best ANA buddy, Selanne, who had been traded away the year prior? A player whose ANA GM had promised wasn't be shopped but then was traded anyway.

Meanwhile, Kariya literally was knocked out cold in the Finals and came back to score a damn goal. That's f***ing heart.

 

[Sorry]

Mostly every other org in the league would kill to retire the number of a player that was as prolific as Jagr was for the Pens.

 

[EightyOne]

Mostly every other org in the league would kill to retire the number of a player that was as prolific as Jagr was for the Pens.

Pens would have like 7 numbers available if all the stars that ever came through here got theirs retired.

It's tough to have been a powerhouse for 30 years.

 

[Sorry]

Pens would have like 7 numbers available if all the stars that ever came through here got theirs retired.

It's tough to have been a powerhouse for 30 years.

If the Pens were mostly any other org, #77 and #35 would already be in the rafters next to #66 and #21.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the Pens were mostly any other org, #77 and #35 would already be in the rafters next to #66 and #21.

#10 as well. I mean, he was a star in Hartford, but he definitely became the all star he was here.

Won the first Selke in Pens history (the only one right?) wore the C, was probably the best player in the 1992 cup run.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Pens would have like 7 numbers available if all the stars that ever came through here got theirs retired.

It's tough to have been a powerhouse for 30 years.

Yeah but jagr didn't just come through. He was the face of the team for a while.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Should retire Paul Coffey's number as well?

Retired numbers are for players that spend the bulk of their career with one team. Jags doesn't deserve it.

 

[Brandinho]

Jagr's best years all came in a Pens sweater, the fact that he played so much of his career for other teams is a bit deceptive because he played until he was 46. If he had never come back to the NHL, he'd have retired at 36 and there'd be very little argument against him having his jersey retired. Even if you look at his entire NHL career, he played 806 games as a Penguin, 277 as a Ranger, 190 as a Capital, 181 as a Panther, 139 as a Devil, 73 as a Flyer, 34 as a Star, 11 as a Bruin and 22 as a Flame. If he were a baseball player, for example, he'd go into the Hall of Fame as a Penguin. Based on everything he accomplished as a Penguin, both absolute and relative to what he accomplished elsewhere, his number should be retired. I don't see much of an argument against it.

 

[ColePens]

Jagr's best years all came in a Pens sweater, the fact that he played so much of his career for other teams is a bit deceptive because he played until he was 46. If he had never come back to the NHL, he'd have retired at 36 and there'd be very little argument against him having his jersey retired. Even if you look at his entire NHL career, he played 806 games as a Penguin, 277 as a Ranger, 190 as a Capital, 181 as a Panther, 139 as a Devil, 73 as a Flyer, 34 as a Star, 11 as a Bruin and 22 as a Flame. If he were a baseball player, for example, he'd go into the Hall of Fame as a Penguin. Based on everything he accomplished as a Penguin, both absolute and relative to what he accomplished elsewhere, his number should be retired. I don't see much of an argument against it.

And IMO none of this says the Pens have to retire his number. If he wants to be represented as a Penguin, cool. I think he's already in the ring of whatever it is. His jersey doesn't need to be retired.

Jersey retirements should be held for certain scenarios. They would have to mean something more than just being a great player for the organization. Mario's history with the city of Pittsburgh would get his jersey retired on any of the Pittsburgh teams. Sid/Geno are easily on their way.

Why would they go out of their way for Jags? It make no sense, even with your reasoning above. If they forced Jagr's jersey to be retired on the team that best represented him, then your argument makes sense. Nobody is forcing 68 to be retired. So they shouldn't go out of their way to do it.