Transfer: Winter Transfer Rumors and Discussion - September

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

 

[Evilo]

50M clause next summer is going to attract a lot of takers.
Great business believing in Dembouz' talent. Better judgment than many HFboarders.

 

[maclean]

50M clause next summer is going to attract a lot of takers.
Great business believing in Dembouz' talent. Better judgment than many HFboarders.

Between being injured all the time and then having to get back into form from injury, I don't think it's an unfair stretch to say that, up until very recently, Barcelona did not get what they were bargaining for when they shelled out all that cash for him. I don't think saying that is a knock to his talents. Definitely there were those who were citing personal issues, though I don't personally follow Barca closely enough to have any opinion on that. But yes, picking him up for 50m could quite a steal for someone.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It depends. To me if they miss top 4 (or even top 6)

They would need to go full nuclear and break the core, I would only keep Fabinho(leadership), Alisson(leaderdhip), Tsimikas, Konate, VVD(leadership), Diaz, Jota, Nunez, Carvalho, Elliott, Bajcetic. Basically do a reset.

I would be open to sell: Thiago (not because I do not want him back but we need to find a GREAT replacement ASAP as LFC are WAY too relient on him and he is only getting older), Matip (see Thiago), Ox (free), Keita (free), Milner (free), Gomez (not good enough), TAA (way too inconsistent if we keep him he needs a decent challenger to his position), Robertson(Tsimikas can do the job), Henderson (too old), Salah(if we can get a great offer if not keep), Firmino (free), Jones (not good enough), Phillips (not good enough)

AND target only players entering their prime (from 20 years old to 25).

I know they won't do it but that team is getting way too complacent and slow. They are already 2 seasons too late in the rebuild.

This is not the first time you've made a similar post and it's just as stupid as it was the first time. Liverpool is already 2 years too late into a rebuild? Are you blind or just implying NHL tanking fetishization to soccer? They had an absurdly successful year just last season.

 

[hatterson]

This is not the first time you've made a similar post and it's just as stupid as it was the first time. Liverpool is already 2 years too late into a rebuild? Are you blind or just implying NHL tanking fetishization to soccer? They had an absurdly successful year just last season.

In fairness, it’s possible to be several years late for a rebuild and still have a successful season. See Ferguson’s last couple seasons at United.

But yea, these posts are absurd. With a couple midfielders this squad would look totally different. Sure they need some refreshing, but a full rebuild now is stupid and just reeks of “tank for a top pick” mentality that doesn’t remotely apply to this sport.

 

[Savant]

Definitely the international break

 

[HoseEmDown]

Question to Liverpool fans. I see a lot saying you need 3 new midfielders but if you sign Bellingham as 1 of them I can't see how you have any money left for the other 2? Bellingham will cost 100M or more, there's no way FSG is spending much more than that in one window. I'm not familiar with your academy so not sure what's in the pipeline but it hasn't really produced much for the Liverpool senior team in awhile. I don't consider Elliot a Liverpool product because he played for the Fulham senior team before his transfer. You got Alexander-Arnold and Jones who's a depth piece to me. The academy has raised funds through sales but not sure who's gonna raise funds next summer?

Bellingham is great and fixes a lot of problems but he's just 1 guy and the rest of the core will be a year older and you still have holes. Seems like by the time you fix the midfield the central defense will be past it and need replacing. I know you can't spend 200M every year but to compete with the other top teams you need to pay the cost to fix your squad. Chelsea, United and City have no problem spending their way out of trouble while Arsenal and Spurs have been trying to keep up in the arms race. Just thinking that if FSG keep the budget tight then they'll slip out of the top 4.

 

[Savant]

Question to Liverpool fans. I see a lot saying you need 3 new midfielders but if you sign Bellingham as 1 of them I can't see how you have any money left for the other 2? Bellingham will cost 100M or more, there's no way FSG is spending much more than that in one window. I'm not familiar with your academy so not sure what's in the pipeline but it hasn't really produced much for the Liverpool senior team in awhile. I don't consider Elliot a Liverpool product because he played for the Fulham senior team before his transfer. You got Alexander-Arnold and Jones who's a depth piece to me. The academy has raised funds through sales but not sure who's gonna raise funds next summer?

Bellingham is great and fixes a lot of problems but he's just 1 guy and the rest of the core will be a year older and you still have holes. Seems like by the time you fix the midfield the central defense will be past it and need replacing. I know you can't spend 200M every year but to compete with the other top teams you need to pay the cost to fix your squad. Chelsea, United and City have no problem spending their way out of trouble while Arsenal and Spurs have been trying to keep up in the arms race. Just thinking that if FSG keep the budget tight then they'll slip out of the top 4.

I mean that’s the multimillion dollar question isn’t it? It’s a matter on if FSG have the appetite or not. There is not an obvious big sale on the horizon. Only one way to find out.

Bajcetic and Morton (who is on loan) are in the pipeline as midfielders. But those aren’t going to be starter caliber players. Bajcetic, maybe if everything breaks right; doubt Morton gets there but he could have a PL career at least. There are depth pieces as you said, but they can certainly upgrade one spot in the starting XI and at least one spot on the match day bench.

When I say three midfielders are needed it’s simple numbers. Milner, Keita and Chamberlain; all of who are counted for to get minutes (rightfully or wrongfully) are all not going to be there. Hell, Keita and Chamberlain aren’t there right now and you can see how shorthanded they are.

LFC are behind in the arms race because they need to upgrade those positions/squad spots. As I said in the beginning it’s going to be up to FSG to decide to be aggressive and no one knows what’s going to happen. What we do know is everyone else in the top six will. And everyone else in the top half of the table. I think 14 teams in the PL alone spent more than LFC this summer. So FSG need to realize the market has changed or they can be stubborn and keep trying to be card counters at the casino.

 

[les Habs]

As I said all Summer long:

Between being injured all the time and then having to get back into form from injury, I don't think it's an unfair stretch to say that, up until very recently, Barcelona did not get what they were bargaining for when they shelled out all that cash for him. I don't think saying that is a knock to his talents. Definitely there were those who were citing personal issues, though I don't personally follow Barca closely enough to have any opinion on that. But yes, picking him up for 50m could quite a steal for someone.

Exactly. Not to mention very few knocked his talents. As someone who drafted him, two years in succession, and then was told I drafted him too early the first time...

The catch about the clause, he actually has to agree to the move.

And to dispel further HFBoards Soccer forum myths:



And to dispel further HFBoards Soccer forum myths:

Aubameyang back to Barça in January for free and reduced wages. Can't wait to see him in the colors again!

 

[Evilo]

Saying very few knocked Dembele for his talents is quite the revisionnist history.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

This is not the first time you've made a similar post and it's just as stupid as it was the first time. Liverpool is already 2 years too late into a rebuild? Are you blind or just implying NHL tanking fetishization to soccer? They had an absurdly successful year just last season.

It's not a rebuild as per hockey sense. It's refreshing the team. The only issue is that at this moment LFC will need to get 3 midfielders next summer (which is idiotic) instead of getting 1 every year for 3 years. Rebuilding the midfield had to happen, Ox should have been replaced, Wijnaldum should have been replaced, Milner should have been replaced and Keita (who has not signed a new deal) should have been replaced.

It's refreshing the squad. It's about getting players that can compete and moving on from players that are on the decline.

There is no doubt in my mind that if LFC did invest last year to get a quality midfielder they would have won the PL and possibly the CL. The margin is thin between success or not.

They continue relying on aging players. This is Klopp M.O. he did something similar at Dortmund. It's not sustainable to keep the same aging players and don't expect a drop in form. For comparable, let's take Man City. They never "rebuild" because they are constantly refreshing their team, in fact, Guardiola is a master at it.

Under Guardiola they moved on from David Silva, Sergio Aguero (slight drop in form with Gabriel Jesus) but fixed it this year, Kompany, Sterling, Fernandinho, etc. Without missing a blip. They don't wait until they are not effective to move on from their players.

Now LFC have a full midfield to replace, next summer.

This current form of LFC is due to negligence to invest from FSG. Also investing 100m for Nunez and not get a midfielder is beyond idiotic.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I mean that’s the multimillion dollar question isn’t it? It’s a matter on if FSG have the appetite or not. There is not an obvious big sale on the horizon. Only one way to find out.

Bajcetic and Morton (who is on loan) are in the pipeline as midfielders. But those aren’t going to be starter caliber players. Bajcetic, maybe if everything breaks right; doubt Morton gets there but he could have a PL career at least. There are depth pieces as you said, but they can certainly upgrade one spot in the starting XI and at least one spot on the match day bench.

When I say three midfielders are needed it’s simple numbers. Milner, Keita and Chamberlain; all of who are counted for to get minutes (rightfully or wrongfully) are all not going to be there. Hell, Keita and Chamberlain aren’t there right now and you can see how shorthanded they are.

LFC are behind in the arms race because they need to upgrade those positions/squad spots. As I said in the beginning it’s going to be up to FSG to decide to be aggressive and no one knows what’s going to happen. What we do know is everyone else in the top six will. And everyone else in the top half of the table. I think 14 teams in the PL alone spent more than LFC this summer. So FSG need to realize the market has changed or they can be stubborn and keep trying to be card counters at the casino.

When they've spent they did really well and hit most of the money out of the park. The jury is still out on Konate and Nunez but really the only bad buy has been Keita, maybe Chamberlian, but they've both have had the same problem with injuries. So it's not like they've blown their budget on junk. They've also have been probably the best top 6 club in sales in the past 5 or so years.

I don't think FSG is all to blame if Liverpool misses the top 4. Klopp seems to have done with this team what he did with Dortmund where he made them a top club but then wore them down so much they fell off and he needed to step away. He says he feels better and wants to stay but might be best for the club to get a new voice in the room. This season isn't gonna help either with how compressed the schedule is and the players won't be getting any breaks.

Not sure if Tielemans is a Klopp player and he plays a similar role to what Bellingham does but they could get him cheap and they need help now. Think they should try to get someone in this winter even if they aren't a starter. Integrate them early so when they lose 3 in the summer you don't have to try to fill all those spots at once.

 

[Savant]

When they've spent they did really well and hit most of the money out of the park. The jury is still out on Konate and Nunez but really the only bad buy has been Keita, maybe Chamberlian, but they've both have had the same problem with injuries. So it's not like they've blown their budget on junk. They've also have been probably the best top 6 club in sales in the past 5 or so years.

I don't think FSG is all to blame if Liverpool misses the top 4. Klopp seems to have done with this team what he did with Dortmund where he made them a top club but then wore them down so much they fell off and he needed to step away. He says he feels better and wants to stay but might be best for the club to get a new voice in the room. This season isn't gonna help either with how compressed the schedule is and the players won't be getting any breaks.

Not sure if Tielemans is a Klopp player and he plays a similar role to what Bellingham does but they could get him cheap and they need help now. Think they should try to get someone in this winter even if they aren't a starter. Integrate them early so when they lose 3 in the summer you don't have to try to fill all those spots at once.

I mean the infrastructure got them where they are but there are obvious pros and cons. I think you can point the finger at LFC as a while for being arrogant (for lack of a better word) in the transfer market. They have always been a net spend team and they have succeeded that way, so it’s a bit disingenuous to celebrate being among the smartest teams in the transfer market and then throw shade at not spending enough money. Liverpool are still doing the things that made them successful over the last seven years or so. It’s not always easy on the eyes and there are very thin margins though.

As I said, it’s going to more about how they react to how the market has changed. Transfer fees are way up, and they aren’t going down, especially on world class players under contract in their prime. The onus is on them to react accordingly.

On Tielemens, I don’t think he is a fit at all. He doesn’t run, he doesn’t track back; he’s just a body. LFC wanted just a body and paid like 4m loan for for Arthur Melo. Tielemens isn’t a solution for them. They wouldn’t sign Matheus Nunes because they didn’t think he tracked back enough for example. There is a reason bigger teams weren’t interested in those guys.

You can’t cry over spilled milk but a guy I talked extensively about in the DMs was Enzo Fernandez. That’s a huge miss on a few levels. But to keep in mind, Benfica, at the time, certainly could have guaranteed more minutes to the player; that matters. LFC also traditionally do not buy out of South America, and when they have the players they have bought have not been able to get work permits. That being said if they are a net spend/budget team, to be able to have gotten a near perfect fit player like that would have been massive. If they still want him he will cost at least quadruple what Benfica paid for him next summer, and this is what I mean by not reading the market right. Ten years ago 20-25m because the new entry point for transfers. Now, it’s probably around 35m-45m; just to get in the door. So yeah, maybe LFC needs to beef up on the South American scouting to find their Enzo’s, their Caicedo’s, etc if they are going to operate as they have been. It’s going to be very interesting.

Klopp literally just extended a couple of months ago. He’s not going anywhere and he shouldn’t. That squad, especially in midfield badly needs to be refreshed though. They need a world class every week starter. They need someone who can cover Thiago and they need a utility guy that isn’t in his late 30s. They have a lot of work to do and it’s pretty silly how they’ve decided to stagger this out.

 

[les Habs]

Saying very few knocked Dembele for his talents is quite the revisionnist history.

Well then that would mean there were more than a few. I'm sure you have a list so go ahead and name the more than the very few here who did so.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don’t think anyone knocked Dembo’s talent level. That’s very clearly in the upper echelon, but there’s a lot of stuff outside of that which has held him back from utilizing that talent.

 

[Evilo]

I don’t think anyone knocked Dembo’s talent level. That’s very clearly in the upper echelon, but there’s a lot of stuff outside of that which has held him back from utilizing that talent.

Really?
"DUMBele"?
"Zero IQ"?
"Can't finish"?
"one of the worst transfers in history"?
I could go on and on. The hatred he received has been beyond ridiculous.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Really?
"DUMBele"?
"Zero IQ"?
"Can't finish"?
"one of the worst transfers in history"?
I could go on and on. The hatred he received has been beyond ridiculous.

Most of those comments came from one person.

I do not think it is fair to say it was generalized or that people shat on him.

 

[Evilo]

Most of those comments came from one person.

I do not think it is fair to say it was generalized or that people shat on him.

Actually, no. I can count at least 3 posters, and I probably forgot others.

 

[les Habs]

Really?
"DUMBele"?
"Zero IQ"?
"Can't finish"?
"one of the worst transfers in history"?
I could go on and on. The hatred he received has been beyond ridiculous.

Really indeed. Dumbele? Hatred? C’mon mate. I also said DUMBappe in reference to him as I drafted him. As for the rest of it, I think you’re making a lot of some of the comments. His decision making/concentration at times seems to be lacking. He can absolutely finish, but other times he takes some pretty bad shots that he blazes over. And the transfer was always fair value as I’ve said. I’ve always rated him from a talent perspective and can back that up probably more than anyone on the forum, but I was also plenty conflicted about him continuing at Barca and for good reason. I definitely shouldn’t be one of your three posters and I’m still not seeing anything past a few.

 

[phisherman]

 

[bluesfan94]

It's not a rebuild as per hockey sense. It's refreshing the team. The only issue is that at this moment LFC will need to get 3 midfielders next summer (which is idiotic) instead of getting 1 every year for 3 years. Rebuilding the midfield had to happen, Ox should have been replaced, Wijnaldum should have been replaced, Milner should have been replaced and Keita (who has not signed a new deal) should have been replaced.

It's refreshing the squad. It's about getting players that can compete and moving on from players that are on the decline.

There is no doubt in my mind that if LFC did invest last year to get a quality midfielder they would have won the PL and possibly the CL. The margin is thin between success or not.

They continue relying on aging players. This is Klopp M.O. he did something similar at Dortmund. It's not sustainable to keep the same aging players and don't expect a drop in form. For comparable, let's take Man City. They never "rebuild" because they are constantly refreshing their team, in fact, Guardiola is a master at it.

Under Guardiola they moved on from David Silva, Sergio Aguero (slight drop in form with Gabriel Jesus) but fixed it this year, Kompany, Sterling, Fernandinho, etc. Without missing a blip. They don't wait until they are not effective to move on from their players.

Now LFC have a full midfield to replace, next summer.

This current form of LFC is due to negligence to invest from FSG. Also investing 100m for Nunez and not get a midfielder is beyond idiotic.

Not to defend Liverpool, but you’re too harsh. They’ve done a decent job of refreshing their back line (Konate, Tsimikas, Ramsay) and forwards (Diaz, Jota, Nunez) but have missed in the midfield, either not getting their targets or due to other factors.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Not to defend Liverpool, but you’re too harsh. They’ve done a decent job of refreshing their back line (Konate, Tsimikas, Ramsay) and forwards (Diaz, Jota, Nunez) but have missed in the midfield, either not getting their targets or due to other factors.

It depends.
Harsh? More like frustrating.

These small differences can make the difference between finishing champion or runner-up and now top 4 or not.

As Savant as said they (LFC) recruiting team have been complacent and a bit arrogant. Thinking they can always outsmart other club by not spending as much.

 

[Evilo]

Really indeed. Dumbele? Hatred? C’mon mate. I also said DUMBappe in reference to him as I drafted him. As for the rest of it, I think you’re making a lot of some of the comments. His decision making/concentration at times seems to be lacking. He can absolutely finish, but other times he takes some pretty bad shots that he blazes over. And the transfer was always fair value as I’ve said. I’ve always rated him from a talent perspective and can back that up probably more than anyone on the forum, but I was also plenty conflicted about him continuing at Barca and for good reason. I definitely shouldn’t be one of your three posters and I’m still not seeing anything past a few.

Who said you were?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Most of those comments came from one person.

I do not think it is fair to say it was generalized or that people shat on him.

Stand by it. He’s had a good start to the season and clearly taking his career more seriously the effort is there too. That’s the difference between dembouz. I already said if he continues like this I would lay off on him.