Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Abdelkader for 7 years 4.25m/yr full NTC in first 4 yrs, partial after

[Chance on Chance]

The guy is playing well. Tons of players play well into their mid 30s. I expect Abby will be one of those players.

and tons dont, your only thinking of the outliers.

 

[danincanada]

I hope I'm proven wrong but I really don't like this signing. Players like Abdelkader are not that difficult to find. He's big but not huge, he's a good skater but not great, he has some offensive skills but they're far from elite. There are a lot of mediocre players like him around the league who could put up similar numbers if given his ice-time with the guys he's played with. I don't see how he deserves this kind of cap hit or the 7 year term.

Not only that but I've been really disappointed with his play this season apart from a couple games. Not only does he have trouble finishing (again) but his puck skills are often terrible and he can't even seem to get a good fore check going or win puck battles. There was no rush to sign him to this contract right now.

 

[SirloinUB]

My guess is Holland plans to retire in 4 years so he decided the extra cap hit on the end is someone else's problem.

I am not sure if you are trying to be faceitous but do you really believe a man who has been with the same organization for 25+ years would have that kind of an attitude?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Clarkson's shot was much better, which is pretty important considering both guys are getting paid to score.

I did not list that and it is an edge to Clarkson, Abby is also better at actually screening the goalie without getting a piece of the puck but it resulting in a goal. I mean they are different players, that is what I am driving at. Compare away, my whole point is I don't see the comparison to begin with, you just added another difference. Abdelkader is paid to do more than just put the puck in the net, he is paid for his versatility in all three zones, not just his personal goal totals.

Gator in no way has better offensive instincts compared to a guy who has had better offensive seasons without the benefit of Datsyuk.

Patrick Elias isn't exactly a bad player..... Yes he isn't Datsyuk, but lets not pretend Clarkson's offensive explosion didn't have a really good NHL player on that line either. Gator is better at every category other than fighting and shot. He is a better player than David Clarkson and at a cheaper price to boot.

The contract could go bad, I doubt it is for similar reasons to Clarkson who again I don't see as a like comparison.

 

[Henkka]

I hope I'm proven wrong but I really don't like this signing. Players like Abdelkader are not that difficult to find.

Believe me, they are hard to find. Next summer free agency has two names, Milan Lucic and Troy Brouwer. That's it.

And nothing is a guarantee they will like to sign with us. Most probably they will be exgended by their current teams like Akader. And if you want to sign them for sure, you overpay for them at offering competition.

So that leads to cap problems.

Re-signing Abdelkader was a good move without salary competition, and it's also a move towards continuity. New guy is always a question mark like on that Clarkson-case. Change of scenery and huge pressure at new organization killed him.

Abdelkader has just to do what he has done in last seasons and he's worth of the deal. No extra pressure on anything that lowers the risk for busting.

 

[Shaman464]

I did not list that and it is an edge to Clarkson, Abby is also better at actually screening the goalie without getting a piece of the puck but it resulting in a goal. I mean they are different players, that is what I am driving at. Compare away, my whole point is I don't see the comparison to begin with, you just added another difference. Abdelkader is paid to do more than just put the puck in the net, he is paid for his versatility in all three zones, not just his personal goal totals.



Patrick Elias isn't exactly a bad player..... Yes he isn't Datsyuk, but lets not pretend Clarkson's offensive explosion didn't have a really good NHL player on that line either. Gator is better at every category other than fighting and shot. He is a better player than David Clarkson and at a cheaper price to boot.

The contract could go bad, I doubt it is for similar reasons to Clarkson who again I don't see as a like comparison.

The comparison is a bottom 6 player gets boosted to a top line role and then scores a lot of points well beyond their career averages and get a huge paycheck they will never be able to live up to.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I'd rather have Anisimov at 4.5 million x 5 years over Justin Abdelkader for 4.25 x 7 years.

Those contracts were signed about five months apart.

 

[DatsDeking]

I'd rather have Anisimov at 4.5 million x 5 years over Justin Abdelkader for 4.25 x 7 years.

Those contracts were signed about five months apart.

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

if we had a dcore, chances are were at the top with Montreal right now lol. Too Bad Quincey is out right now, would have a pretty good top 4. Terrible bottom pair tho

 

[Pavels Dog]

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

It's the 'luck' of being a contender. Panarin had plenty of teams to choose from, of course he goes to the team that is winning the most cups and playing the most offensive-style game as well as having plenty of room to insert him on a top line with Patrick Kane.
Kinda like how we got Hossa on a 1-year deal when he could choose from 15 long-term deals. We also picked up Leino, Brunner and Dekeyser so it's not like it's never happened for us. Panarin looks great though. Almost too good because it may create additional salary cap problems for Chicago.

 

[Kronwalled55]

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

Well DeKeyser was gift wrapped for this organization.

Granted I don't think he's that good, but I would still hate to see what this defense would look like without him.

 

[Flowah]

if we had a dcore, chances are were at the top with Montreal right now lol. Too Bad Quincey is out right now, would have a pretty good top 4. Terrible bottom pair tho

Marchy pretty solid down there.

 

[Retire91]

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

Let's not forget the Hawks dynasty was possible because the hawks were awful for a time. Their franchise players are top picks. The wings have franchise players because they knocked a few late picks out of the park and then some. What the Hawks have been really good at doing is getting assets for players that are going to walk or that are going to put them in cap trouble. The wings have so little player changeover and turnover, the only way people leave is when Holland finally realizes they are garbage about 3 seasons after everyone else that follows hockey has realized it.

The Abdelkader signing is indefensible. The money is so so but the term is ridiculous. There is no defending that term for a player that really isn't anything special in their prime let alone 7 seasons from now.

Its not an end of the world contract but it was a bad contract before the ink dried. He basically locks up a top 6 roster spot financially for 7 seasons and is not a top 6 player IMO.

 

[Dotter]

Believe me, they are hard to find. Next summer free agency has two names, Milan Lucic and Troy Brouwer. That's it.

And nothing is a guarantee they will like to sign with us. Most probably they will be exgended by their current teams like Akader. And if you want to sign them for sure, you overpay for them at offering competition.

So that leads to cap problems.

Re-signing Abdelkader was a good move without salary competition, and it's also a move towards continuity. New guy is always a question mark like on that Clarkson-case. Change of scenery and huge pressure at new organization killed him.

Abdelkader has just to do what he has done in last seasons and he's worth of the deal. No extra pressure on anything that lowers the risk for busting.

34 (soon to be 35) Joel Ward signed a 3 year $3,275,000 cap hit deal. That should put Abdelkader's contract in perspective about these type of players. Ward will be nearing 38 when his contract expires.

While Shark fans are happy with the UFA singing of Joel Ward, Wings fans condemn the Justin Abdelkader signing. :shakemyhead:

 

[Classicnamesup]

Joel Ward was leading their team in points until about 3 games ago. Plus he is on pace for 35 goals and 60 points. Justin is on pace for ~20 goals and under 40 pts (and has cooled off considerably since his hot start. In his last 17 games he has 1 goal and 3 assists. 4 points in 17 games, a staggering 19 pt pace)

Plus Joel Ward is over a million cheaper and 4 LESS YEARS. Solid comparison though

Edit: My god, didn't even realize how abysmal Abbys production has been recently and he was just signed for 7 more years. This is even worse than I realized

 

[WingedWheel1987]

34 (soon to be 35) Joel Ward signed a 3 year $3,275,000 cap hit deal. That should put Abdelkader's contract in perspective about these type of players. Ward will be nearing 38 when his contract expires.

While Shark fans are happy with the UFA singing of Joel Ward, Wings fans condemn the Justin Abdelkader signing. :shakemyhead:

That's some mighty fine logic.

Sharks fans liking it means what? Their organization blows too. Doug Wilson makes the same mistakes Holland makes. Pretending his core is capable of winning a cup when it clearly isn't.

Gator's contract is one of the worst contracts in the league.

 

[detredWINgs]

Its so frustrating and disheartening to see how quickly the Hawks have retooled while we slowly tread water. Panirin is too good. Wish we had that luck sometimes... at least on D

It's called having the balls to trade players who still have value. They've been doing it since the Campbell/Huet fiasco. Can you imagine Holland trading guys like Saad and Sharp? Letting a goalie walk who just won you the Cup?

And all of our loyalty has done ****all when it comes to attracting free agents or signing cap friendly deals anymore. That died with the veterans.

 

[Henkka]

34 (soon to be 35) Joel Ward signed a 3 year $3,275,000 cap hit deal. That should put Abdelkader's contract in perspective about these type of players. Ward will be nearing 38 when his contract expires.

Yeah, it gives a perspective. Comparing old player to prime player.

But it has nothing to do with next summer free agency market, when Joel Ward is NOT available, and Abdelkader would have hit the market.

 

[Dotter]

Joel Ward was leading their team in points until about 3 games ago. Plus he is on pace for >30 goals and nearly 60 points. Justin is on pace for ~20 goals and under 40 pts (and has cooled off considerably since his hot start. In his last 17 games he has 1 goal and 3 assists. 4 points in 17 games, a staggering 19 pt pace)

I don't like using "on pace for", especially when deals were signed before the season started (in Wards case). Had Ward known he was gong to score lots of points with SJS to start his year, he would have asked for more... and SJS would have gladly paid more.

So we can't use that. It's a hindsight thing.

Plus Joel Ward is over a million cheaper and 4 LESS YEARS. Solid comparison though

I think we also need to put other things into perspective.

These 3 years on Wards contract is more expensive than Abdelkader's last 3 years. $3.27 million cap hit for Joel Ward, and $3.16 million for Abdelkader... and Adbelkader's case, he will be 1 year younger, and inflation will likely go up considerably by 2020.

So to put things into perspective, Abdelkader will be 1 year younger, will be paid less base salary, and inflation will offset by... I can throw out a number by $1 million?

Abdelkader is getting paid 4.5 and 5 million his prime years in the base salary. Then by the time he gets Joel Wards age (34) it tapers off to 3.5 to 3.0 million, averaging 3.16 million base salary. Joel ward is getting 3.27 at the same age... before inflation offset.

Using Joel Wards contract, I think you can clearly see Ken Holland took everything into perspective from age, health, prime years, to inflation.

At the end of the day, I think Joel Ward is the perfect comparison. Difference being Shark fans are happy, Wing fans are pissed.

 

[Classicnamesup]

I don't like using "on pace for", especially when deals were signed before the season started (in Wards case). Had Ward known he was gong to score lots of points with SJS to start his year, he would have asked for more... and SJS would have gladly paid more.

So we can't use that. It's a hindsight thing.

Then why are you saying this.

While Shark fans are happy with the UFA singing of Joel Ward, Wings fans condemn the Justin Abdelkader signing. :shakemyhead:

Talking about how fans feel about the deal and the player, it is pretty important to take into account how the player is doing. That is why they feel that way about them and why so many people are down about Abby right now.

Either way, I can see why you don't like using on pace when Abby has 4 pts in 17 games. Paces out to 19 points.

I think we also need to put other things into perspective.

These 3 years on Wards contract is more expensive than Abdelkader's last 3 years. $3.27 million cap hit for Joel Ward, and $3.16 million for Abdelkader... and Adbelkader will be 1 year young, and inflation will likely go up considerably by 2020.

So to put things into perspective, Abdelkader will be 1 year younger, will be paid less, and inflation will offset by (I can throw out a number by $1 million).

Abdelkader is getting paid 4.5 and 5 million his prime years in the base salary. Then by the time he gets Joel Wards age (34) it tapers off to 3.5 to 3.0 million, averaging 3.16 million base salary. Joel ward is getting 3.27 at the same age... before inflation offset.

Using Joel Wards contract, I think you can clearly see Ken Holland took everything into perspective from age, health, prime years, to inflation.

At the end of the day, I think Joel Ward is the perfect comparison. Difference being Shark fans are happy, Wing fans are pissed.

You're forgetting that nobody cares how much he gets paid, his cap hit, which actually matters, is 1M more for being considerably less productive. Using the word considerably is generous, they are worlds apart right now in production.

But of course the real issue is the risk in signing Ward to 3 years @ 3.25m is relatively low. If he quits being productive, which is currently not the case, he only sinks them for 3 years and at a pretty manageable cap hit.

Abby is signed for 7 more years at a higher cap hit. The cap is worse and harder to trade/sink/manage and most importantly the risk is enormous because it is so long. If he quits being productive over the next 7 years (he has quit being productive already this year, year -1 of his 7 year deal) then it is very hard to deal with.

 

[Dotter]

Then why are you saying this.


Talking about how fans feel about the deal and the player, it is pretty important to take into account how the player is doing. That is why they feel that way about them and why so many people are down about Abby right now.

Either way, I can see why you don't like using on pace when Abby has 4 pts in 17 games. Paces out to 19 points.

You're forgetting that nobody cares how much he gets paid, his cap hit, which actually matters, is 1M more for being considerably less productive. Using the word considerably is generous, they are worlds apart right now in production.

But of course the real issue is the risk in signing Ward to 3 years @ 3.25m is relatively low. If he quits being productive, which is currently not the case, he only sinks them for 3 years and at a pretty manageable cap hit.

Abby is signed for 7 more years at a higher cap hit. The cap is worse and harder to trade/sink/manage and most importantly the risk is enormous because it is so long. If he quits being productive over the next 7 years (he has quit being productive already this year, year -1 of his 7 year deal) then it is very hard to deal with.

Because when that thread was created, Ward was 5 months away from turning 35 and just came off a 34 point season.

Ward's best points total season (49) came when he was 33 years old. When Ward started his NHL career when he was 28, he scored 35 points. When Abedlkader was 27 he scored 44 points. If Abdelkader scores his "projected on-pace for" of 40 (your number) this season, he will be outscoring Joel Ward (34pts) by 6pts at the same age of his NHL career.

Abdelkaders contract is structured (base salary) when he hits his prime and gets 5 million from 31 to 33. Ward didn't even hit his prime til about 32.

In summary, at comparing both players at the same age, Abdelkader is putting up better numbers.

 

[InjuredChoker]

34 (soon to be 35) Joel Ward signed a 3 year $3,275,000 cap hit deal. That should put Abdelkader's contract in perspective about these type of players. Ward will be nearing 38 when his contract expires.

While Shark fans are happy with the UFA singing of Joel Ward, Wings fans condemn the Justin Abdelkader signing. :shakemyhead:

might have something to do with length of those contracts, what style of games they play. as ward was still pretty good last season, it was reasonable gamble to make that he can at that level or close to it for 2 seasons. 3rd was something they probably had to do to get him signed. ward also played with lesser linemates and less pp time when he was abby's age.


edit. ward has always been used in a much more defensive role. ward has never had a season where he started more than 29.2% of shifts in the offensive zone and next highest is at 27.2%. abdelkader has never had a season started less than 31.6% of his shifts in the offensive zone. last season he was at 40.8%, 16th highest ratio of all forwards. while playing most of his minutes with zett and nyquist.

i'd much rather have ward contract than abdelkader deal. at least he's off the books soon if things go south.

here's also some comparables for abby (age 25-28, goals and points per games in those years).

jamie mcginn (13-16)
steve ott (07-11) total of 32 goals since 2011
trent hunter (05-09) total of 14 goals since, out of the league at 32
colby armstrong (07-11) total of 3 goals since, out of the league at 31
kyle wellwood (08-12) out of the league at 30
chris higgins (08-12) total of 41 goals since
mark letestu (10-14) (8 goals since, in 71 gms)
andrew cogliano (12-16)
scottie upshall (08-12) total of 30 goals since
raffi torres (06-10) total 39 goals since, in 203 games
chuck kobasew (07-11) total of 14 goals since, out of the league at 32
matt beleskey (13-16)
jiri tlusty (13-16)
dave bolland (11-15)
devin setoguchi (11-15)
marek svatos (07-11) out of the league at 29
damien brunner (12-15) out of the league at 29

 

[The Zermanator]

Because when that thread was created, Ward was 5 months away from turning 35 and just came off a 34 point season.

Ward's best points total season (49) came when he was 33 years old. When Ward started his NHL career when he was 28, he scored 35 points. When Abedlkader was 27 he scored 44 points. If Abdelkader scores his "projected on-pace for" of 40 (your number) this season, he will be outscoring Joel Ward (34pts) by 6pts at the same age of his NHL career.

Abdelkaders contract is structured (base salary) when he hits his prime and gets 5 million from 31 to 33. Ward didn't even hit his prime til about 32.

In summary, at comparing both players at the same age, Abdelkader is putting up better numbers.

Wow, talk about goalpost moving. 5 months away from 35? So... 34, then? Meaning the 49 point season came the year prior, not two years like you tried to make it seem.

Abdelkader's cap hit is fine, people are right when they say he brings more to the table than just points (though he needs to put up more than he has so far). It's the term that is just absolutely ridiculous. Abdelkader is in no way the type of player that can demand a term like that. You know what's better than 7 years? 4 years. Then if he's still good, sign him for another 3. But if he's not good long term, and you've signed him for 7 years, you're stuck with him for 7 years. Terrible contract.

 

[Classicnamesup]

So the contract becomes good if Abby keeps getting better before peaking at 33 y/o. Which would make him the 0.01% of players who put up their best offensive years in their mid 30s.

How anyone can argue the 7 years isn't an issue is really mind boggling

 

[Dotter]

Wow, talk about goalpost moving. 5 months away from 35? So... 34, then? Meaning the 49 point season came the year prior, not two years like you tried to make it seem.

Abdelkader's cap hit is fine, people are right when they say he brings more to the table than just points (though he needs to put up more than he has so far). It's the term that is just absolutely ridiculous. Abdelkader is in no way the type of player that can demand a term like that. You know what's better than 7 years? 4 years. Then if he's still good, sign him for another 3. But if he's not good long term, and you've signed him for 7 years, you're stuck with him for 7 years. Terrible contract.

I don't think I moved the goal posts at all. His birthday is in like 12 days.

But that's not even what matters nor the point I was trying to make. His age was simply used as a reference. I'm not calling this a "terrible contract" unless it actually hurts the DRWs organization/team and becomes terrible.