Rumor: Wings had offer on the table for Barzal

[KJoe88]

I don’t think this’ll come to fruition anymore, but having Larkin and Barzal would instantly make us a bubble/playoff team as long as Stevie can sign a couple vets and address the blue line further.

 

[RedWingzz]

Yep, something like Suter, Edvinsson, unprotected 2022 1st, and another B prospect might make sense for both teams - but the only way I can see it actually happening is if Barzal and Trotz have some clear issue. It's true, he doesn't really fit into the Trotz system and once liked some tweet when Martin St. Louis took over saying that certain players are too talented to be defined by a system. There isn't really smoke there as far as anyone knows, just something that happened that was ...intriguing. He's still our most talented player though, so it would take a real haul. Honestly not sure what I posted would even do it.

Uhh....Edvinsson? AND a first? and a solid 2/3 center in Suter? AND you want a B prospect too.

Wouldn't give you Edvinsson straight up for Barzal....

 

[ShanahanMan]

Yep, something like Suter, Edvinsson, unprotected 2022 1st, and another B prospect might make sense for both teams - but the only way I can see it actually happening is if Barzal and Trotz have some clear issue. It's true, he doesn't really fit into the Trotz system and once liked some tweet when Martin St. Louis took over saying that certain players are too talented to be defined by a system. There isn't really smoke there as far as anyone knows, just something that happened that was ...intriguing. He's still our most talented player though, so it would take a real haul. Honestly not sure what I posted would even do it.

Lol what? A projected top line D and a 1st and a prospect and a roster player? Subtract Edvinsson from that there’s a conversation, but Edvinsson alone would even be too much for Barzal.

 

[jkutswings]

Uhh....Edvinsson? AND a first? and a solid 2/3 center in Suter? AND you want a B prospect too.

Wouldn't give you Edvinsson straight up for Barzal....

Umm, I would drive Edvinsson to the airport myself to make that highway robbery of a deal happen. I don't care if he's the next Bobby Orr in 10 years. Right now he's a highly regarded prospect with zero NHL games, versus a young but proven NHL center roughly of Larkin's caliber.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Can't see this happening, regardless of the return. Opens up a gigantic hole and plugs in players into positions where the Isles have a lot of term and salary tied up into already.

Isles would have to rebuild a year into their new arena in order for them to trade Barzal (or they can't resign him after his contract is up and he takes the QO and plays out the year).

Good luck to the Wings, that Seider is something else! His OT gamewinner vs us earlier this season was a rocket that still stings.

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

why the f does everyone on this forum want to get rid of Bert? He's one of our best players and brings it every night

 

[Killerjas]

Isles fan coming in peace/with perspective:

Something to consider here is that the Islanders have a pretty strong vaccination policy. They shipped off one of their top prospects, Bode Wilde from the AHL squad to a team in Europe this season because he did not get vaccinated. I understand the Covid policy meta is constantly shifting, but it certainly would be a pretty quick about-face to go from sending players to Sweden to trading your 1C for a famously unvaccinated player, no matter how Lou-ish or Trotz-y the player is.

As for Barzal's return, he seems to be criminally undervalued on this thread. He is not a 2C. Yes, his numbers are down from the free-wheeling Doug Weight year, but that's because he's been tasked with more defensive responsibility and working on other parts of his game. He's also been playing with 2nd/3rd/4th line caliber players the last couple of seasons. Put him on an offensive minded team and put real talent around him and he'll eclipse that 85 point mark REAL fast. GMs know this, and so does Arthur Staple (former Isles beat writer). Bertuzzi + Zadina + a first is not close and wouldn't have Staple tweeting about it. I'm not super familiar with the Wings' squad this year, but it would likely take something like a top 6 C, top 4 LHD, good prospect and first for him to even bring it up. Not sure what your guys' version of that is, but we are very set with wingers right now and our center depth is thin - there's no way any Barzal deal was/will be based around Bertuzzi.

Bode Wilde a top prospect?! Yeah maybe in 2018...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Lol what? A projected top line D and a 1st and a prospect and a roster player? Subtract Edvinsson from that there’s a conversation, but Edvinsson alone would even be too much for Barzal.

That's crazy. You're crazy.

Barzal is a top line center. Proven, signed, sealed, delivered. I'd trade Edvinsson, Suter, our first, and something else good in a freaking heartbeat.

 

[izlez]

why the f does everyone on this forum want to get rid of Bert? He's one of our best players and brings it every night

In general, I agree. But when the potential of landing an established young 1A-1B center is presented, you need to be willing to pay up.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I could see them asking Bert + Edvisson and that would make me hesitate too

 

[Ezekial]

As for Barzal's return, he seems to be criminally undervalued on this thread. He is not a 2C. Yes, his numbers are down from the free-wheeling Doug Weight year, but that's because he's been tasked with more defensive responsibility and working on other parts of his game. He's also been playing with 2nd/3rd/4th line caliber players the last couple of seasons. Put him on an offensive minded team and put real talent around him and he'll eclipse that 85 point mark REAL fast. GMs know this, and so does Arthur Staple (former Isles beat writer). Bertuzzi + Zadina + a first is not close and wouldn't have Staple tweeting about it. I'm not super familiar with the Wings' squad this year, but it would likely take something like a top 6 C, top 4 LHD, good prospect and first for him to even bring it up. Not sure what your guys' version of that is, but we are very set with wingers right now and our center depth is thin - there's no way any Barzal deal was/will be based around Bertuzzi.

We only have 1 top 6 C and no top 4 LD. I wouldn't include Edvinsson in this deal solely due to the fact that he is the only name we can pencil into that left side for the future (and he still has to come over and prove himself) Yes, we need another top end C, but we also need LD.

I think we see Barzal as a 1A/B not a 2C, but he would be the "2C" on the Wings with Larkin taking the more difficult defensive matchups.

 

[RedWingzz]

That's crazy. You're crazy.

Barzal is a top line center. Proven, signed, sealed, delivered. I'd trade Edvinsson, Suter, our first, and something else good in a freaking heartbeat.

You are over-valuing Barzal then.

That sort of package is reserved for elite players, not just good players.

I like Barzal too, he's actually one of my favorite players. After his rookie season, I thought he'd be a bit more than he is today if I'm being honest. Can we all agree that Barzal is in the "average 1C" category?

You're straight up telling me you'd give Edvinsson, Suter, 9/10/11 overall pick and Berggren (I just tossed him here as your "something else good") for Barzal?

I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. 4 quality assets for the, what, 25th best center in the NHL? nope.

 

[RedWingzz]

sooooo a play driving 1C with PPG season on record who has lead his team in points every year of his career under team control with 50 NHL playoff games and 5 NHL playoff series wins under his belt at the ripe old age of 24 is now worth less than ****checks notes**** futures?? this has been fun guys but looks like it's about time for me to mosey on back over to my own board

I mean, PPG center 4 seasons ago, but yeah I guess your point is valid. I really like Barzal man, I'm not trying to rip on him at all. I just really like Edvinsson's upside, and if he reaches his potential, I truly believe Edvinsson would help us win a Cup more than Barzal would.

I'll flip your offer at you for fun. Would you give Detroit:
-Noah Dobson
-Beauvillier
-your 2022 first round pick
- Bode Wilde

for Dylan Larkin? There's no way you would lol

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

why the f does everyone on this forum want to get rid of Bert? He's one of our best players and brings it every night

He brings it every night, just not in Canada lol.

 

[stillwater]

Typical ... one post linking to the fake "news" of a leaked Yzerman offer for Barzal. Then, 90 posts with opinions of what should be offered, or future line combinations.

This trade didn't happen, wasn't going to happen, never will happen. It's just Fantasy nonsense.

 

[Ricelund]

Typical ... one post linking to the fake "news" of a leaked Yzerman offer for Barzal. Then, 90 posts with opinions of what should be offered, or future line combinations.

This trade didn't happen, wasn't going to happen, never will happen. It's just Fantasy nonsense.

Welcome to HFBoards!

 

[evolutionbaby]

What are the rules for Bert playing in NY with his vax status?

 

[impaaaaaact]

I mean, PPG center 4 seasons ago, but yeah I guess your point is valid. I really like Barzal man, I'm not trying to rip on him at all. I just really like Edvinsson's upside, and if he reaches his potential, I truly believe Edvinsson would help us win a Cup more than Barzal would.

I'll flip your offer at you for fun. Would you give Detroit:
-Noah Dobson
-Beauvillier
-your 2022 first round pick
- Bode Wilde

for Dylan Larkin? There's no way you would lol

I understand the comparison, but I have an issue with a couple of these player valuations. The overarching difference between our offers is that Noah Dobson is third in scoring amongst defenseman since the game he was benched... forget exactly what day that was but it's been a few months. Not in the SHL or Liiga or KHL - in the NHL, right behind Cale Makar and Roman Josi. As good as Edvinsson will likely be, his play and production is still hypothetical. Dobson's is not. I also think Beau's value is likely quite a bit higher than Suter's, even with the down year.

But yes, I would for sure entertain something within those guidelines. Is Larkin the kind of player Lou and Trotz are looking to add? Probably not, and I think posters here were correct to immediately think of Bertuzzi without really knowing what the Isles needs would be. It doesn't happen often, but when 1Cs are dealt it's always a haul - and it's because they're worth it.

 

[SantosHalper]

Several reasons guys like Barzal move.

Long-term contract issues.
Team/culture fit.
Selling high.

Maybe a combination platter. We saw it with Eichel, Dubois, Seguin, etc.

What issues? He's 24-years old kid with deep pockets living in New York, and i was under the impression that finally Islanders have a owner who's willing to spend money. I don't see any issues to not to re-sign with the Islanders.

Team/culture fit? He's the 1st line center and highest scoring player since 2017-18. Isles reached the conference finals twice in the row with Barzal as the 1st line center, game 6 and game 7 losses in the conference finals. Not far from the finals, and he's probably a future captain.

Value is high but right now Isles are trying to win, they are just having bad season this year. Lamouriello is not going to trade a 24-year old 1st line center away, it just doesn't make any sense. Hertl was just re-signed with massive contract, centers and especially top-6 centers are just too valuable. They don't grow on trees, we as a Red Wings fans should know that.

Eichel was sick of the abysmal organization, and the Isles far from the state of the Sabres organization. Dubois wanted away from Columbus, would you move away from New York? Seguin was traded because Bruins didn't have enough cap room to keep him, and his value was high. Bruins also already had 2 top-6 centers Bergeron and Krejci, Isles don't have the similar luxury.

 

[impaaaaaact]

What are the rules for Bert playing in NY with his vax status?

Isles have an unofficial vax mandate - all of the covid stuff is always subject to change at any moment but but I previously mentioned our prospect Bode Wilde who was sent from the AHL this year to Sweden because he was unvaccinated.

 

[KJoe88]

I mean, PPG center 4 seasons ago, but yeah I guess your point is valid. I really like Barzal man, I'm not trying to rip on him at all. I just really like Edvinsson's upside, and if he reaches his potential, I truly believe Edvinsson would help us win a Cup more than Barzal would.

I'll flip your offer at you for fun. Would you give Detroit:
-Noah Dobson
-Beauvillier
-your 2022 first round pick
- Bode Wilde

for Dylan Larkin? There's no way you would lol

Those players aren’t going to be as good as Bertuzzi or Ed.

I’d easily decline.

 

[RedWingzz]

I understand the comparison, but I have an issue with a couple of these player valuations. The overarching difference between our offers is that Noah Dobson is third in scoring amongst defenseman since the game he was benched... forget exactly what day that was but it's been a few months. Not in the SHL or Liiga or KHL - in the NHL, right behind Cale Makar and Roman Josi. As good as Edvinsson will likely be, his play and production is still hypothetical. Dobson's is not. I also think Beau's value is likely quite a bit higher than Suter's, even with the down year.

But yes, I would for sure entertain something within those guidelines. Is Larkin the kind of player Lou and Trotz are looking to add? Probably not, and I think posters here were correct to immediately think of Bertuzzi without really knowing what the Isles needs would be. It doesn't happen often, but when 1Cs are dealt it's always a haul - and it's because they're worth it.

You failed to mention the difference in value between the first round picks though. Ours will probably be 9, could be 8/7/6 if we really struggle down the road. You guys are trending in the other direction, and your first should be what 13? Could even be in the 15/16 range if you keep playing well. So sure, Beau is better than Suter, and Dobson is proven whereas Ed isn't, but in this fictional scenario the 9th overall picks carries value over the 14th.

I can agree to disagree with you, I'm ok with that. Like I said, I can understand the argument for Barzal, and in a different system he surely is putting up better numbers, but I just think Ed has sky-high potential. No guarantee that he reaches it, but if he does, he could be elite. 6"5 D aren't supposed to be as fast and smooth as Ed. Sure, he has to refine his offensive tools, and has lots of room to grow, but the potential is there.

 

[RedWingzz]

Those players aren’t going to be as good as Bertuzzi or Ed.

I’d easily decline.

Noah Dobson?

He's already a monster. Noah Dobson carries way more value than Bertuzzi does, it's not even close.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I don't know man I think red wings fans are salivating in this thread and getting carried away with fantasies at this point. I'll eject the thread and let Islanders fans step in and share how they would feel about trading Barzal for Bertuzzi, a 1st in this draft (should be high pick but the consensus is the draft is weak), and a prospect (Probably a B-level in your imagination).

MAYBE if the 1st had no lottery protection it makes sense. Yzerman rolling the dice here a bit, but even Shane Wright doesn't seem like a huge prize at this point in time tbh.

Edit: my bad didn't realize this was the Red Wings board, oh well that's my opinion as a devils fan

Outside opinions are welcome.

 

[jkutswings]

You're straight up telling me you'd give Edvinsson, Suter, 9/10/11 overall pick and Berggren (I just tossed him here as your "something else good") for Barzal?

I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. 4 quality assets for the, what, 25th best center in the NHL? nope.

Suter is worth just north of a bag of pucks.

Edvinsson and Berggren are prospects. So either could eventually be a key player, and either could eventually be working at Taco Bell.

And per this link, the average return on 10th overall is 209 points in 443 career NHL games:

https://morehockeystats.com/drafts/pickstats

So would I trade a 0.5ppg player, two question marks, and a depth player for a top 25 center?

ALL DAY EVERY DAY.