Post-Game Talk: Wings def. Canucks - 5-2 (Beauvillier, Pettersson)

[Diogenes92]

But goaltending!

Exactly this. Its the new excuse for this poorly built team and what they'll be selling to the fanbase at the end of the year.

Martin and Delia were never expected to play this much. Demko was supposed to play 60 games.

People don't understand that most goalies can't handle that sort of workload and it shows in their stats.

 

[VanJack]

Spencer Martin is sacrificing his career for the greater good. Let's face it, the Canucks will need to dramatically upgrade their backup goalie position this off-season. But in the meantime, the guys in crease are doing their part for the Bedard tank.

Wings are now eight points ahead of the Canucks, and another loss at home to them on Monday night, and you won't have to worry about them any more. One by one, the potential Bedard contenders are starting to melt away.

Checking the standings this morning, only Chicago, Columbus, San Jose, Anaheim, Arizona and sad sack Columbus are worse. It's hard to see the Canucks being as bad as those teams down the stretch, but with the league's worst PK by a country mile, anything is possible!

 

[Peen]

Delia’s numbers are starter level when adjusted.

Martin’s are AHL caliber

 

[David Bruce Banner]

No love for Troy Gamble?

Honestly, I don’t remember him as terrible.
Caprice was way out of his depth… poor guy was in net for a whole game vs. the Oilers, where we got absolutely destroyed 13-0

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Our goaltending hasn't been good, no argument there.

But all this "historically bad" or "worst in 10 years" stuff should also be viewed in context within a league-wide scope and the way the league is trending. Look at the league wide sv% now compared to just 6-7 years ago, almost a 10 point drop in save percentage!

View attachment 648703

He knows.

Exactly this. Its the new excuse for this poorly built team and what they'll be selling to the fanbase at the end of the year.

Martin and Delia were never expected to play this much. Demko was supposed to play 60 games.

People don't understand that most goalies can't handle that sort of workload and it shows in their stats.

Its the go to excuse for the retool apologists.

 

[sting101]

Yes it takes a look no further with Delia vs Martin to see a capable 3rd stringer playing well as a back up when called upon and what Martin is doing. A healthy NHL team would not be playing him ever given this years body of work.

We can have these discussions indapendant of defence can we not or does every Boeser conversation have to have the caveat that it's not fair that BB6 has no support from his defence on the attack

 

[M2Beezy]

But goaltending is hilarious here

Jesus himself couldnt make the saves with Myers OEL Stillman "defending"

 

[Diogenes92]

Its the go to excuse for the retool apoapologists.

Oh, I know.

Just felt the need to push back against the vultures who want to blame this garbage team's woes on ridiculously overworked backup goalies.

 

[Peen]

But goaltending is hilarious here

Jesus himself couldnt make the saves with Myers OEL Stillman "defending"

It is but goaltending if people complain about Delia

Complaining about Martin is not but goalie-ing

 

[sting101]

Exactly this. Its the new excuse for this poorly built team and what they'll be selling to the fanbase at the end of the year.

Martin and Delia were never expected to play this much. Demko was supposed to play 60 games.

People don't understand that most goalies can't handle that sort of workload and it shows in their stats.

What excuses are you referring to. Seems to me that people are pretty content losing and that our defense is btm5 in the league.

Goaltending is pretty much as bad as i've ever seen by the Canucks and i've seen a lot

 

[sting101]

It is but goaltending if people complain about Delia

Complaining about Martin is not but goalie-ing

This hits the nail. People are just venting on Martin like they are with Stillman or OEL or Myers.

I heard some guy this week going off on radio about how this is not on Martin and it's unfair because Halak and Holtby got the same treatment/results and its the team not the goalies. The first thing that came to mind was all the games that Holtby actually played well where people gave him credit and the fact that Delia has been good. And by good i mean related to expectation and role.

Are we not allowed to criticize goalies for playing like crap? What a unreal double standard as he starts a rant about Myers OEL etc.

It doesn't matter that our pro scouting sucks because our amateur scouting sucks right? It's not fair look at the shitty job those guys are doing......fraaack this pisses me off when my kids do this stuff let alone grown ass adults.

Martin has been abysmal...keep er going Spencer or should i say "Wardaddy"

 

[Diogenes92]

What excuses are you referring to. Seems to me that people are pretty content losing and that our defense is btm5 in the league.

Goaltending is pretty much as bad as i've ever seen by the Canucks and i've seen a lot

That goaltending is the main reason the team is losing. There are a few people pushing that narrative lately.

What do you expect from career AHL goalies who have only recently been called upon to play starting goalie minutes?

 

[VanJack]

When you look at the careers of Martin and Delia so far, the inescapable conclusion is that they're AHL goaltenders, pure and simple.

There's nothing to be critical about here......but guys who've spent far more time in the minors than they have in the NHL do so for a reason. So obviously a priority this off-season for the Canucks is to find another goalie who can reliably play every fourth or fifth game.

But of course the goaltending won't matter if the Canucks PK continues with his current trajectory---the worst in the NHL for three seasons now.

If you can't kill penalties, you're not giving yourself a chance to win, particularly on the road. Really wouldn't matter who was between the pipes.

 

[arttk]

He knows.


Its the go to excuse for the retool apologists.

Of course the best way to get a backup goalie is to rebuild right?

 

[sting101]

That goaltending is the main reason the team is losing. There are a few people pushing that narrative lately.

What do you expect from career AHL goalies who have only recently been called upon to play starting goalie minutes?

We just expect to not have incompetence.

Look at Delia.

It's unfortunate for Martin. He got a elevated role by last years success to back up. Then with Demko's injury he got the starter role. Back up role was a stretch but at min wage it looked like an ok gamble. You hope to have guys move through the system and be able to fill these roles.

He's fallen apart. It was a low probability of success to begin with and now he's emotionally and technically a mess put behind a system and a defence thats a mess.

The GDTs are emotional. Guys get ripped ridiculed and mocked because it's largely smack talk. I think once that settles down into roster discussion most are pretty cognizant of the issues of defensive play and are not expecting a back up to prop this team up.

 

[EpochLink]

Demo going down early in the season doomed this team.
Our goaltending is terrible, Martin cannot handle a full load and its starting to show.

 

[arttk]

We just expect to not have incompetence.

Look at Delia.

It's unfortunate for Martin. He got a elevated role by last years success to back up. Then with Demko's injury he got the starter role. Back up role was a stretch but at min wage it looked like an ok gamble. You hope to have guys move through the system and be able to fill these roles.

He's fallen apart. It was a low probability of success to begin with and now he's emotionally and technically a mess put behind a system and a defence thats a mess.

The GDTs are emotional. Guys get ripped ridiculed and mocked because it's largely smack talk. I think once that settles down into roster discussion most are pretty cognizant of the issues of defensive play and are not expecting a back up to prop this team up.

I think woodle talked about this quite a lot. The difference between being a backup and starter is huge. It’s the wear and tear and also the mental requirement. There are a lot of high quality backups in this league that can never be a starter and that’s just the way it is. Can Martin bounce back and be a quality backup next year? Who the f*** knows, it’s better to plan for him not being able to.

Is it poor planning to have Martin as the backup this year? Probably but then we are still paying for Holtby and Halak this year and that’s like 3.1M in goalie cost. I think most teams these days don’t budget that much money on goalies because money is better spent elsewhere.

 

[sting101]

Jesus Christ isn't there a Zamboni driver or 3rd string college goalie in the Lower Mainland that can play backup for us? Martin is unbelievable: not 5 of his saves tonight were without drama, he can't move side to side worth shit, he has brutal puck awareness, can't play the puck and can't even nearly control his rebounds. Question: is there a Canuck goalie EVER with as many starts as him who is statistically worse? Maybe Ian Clark can tell us...

Love this rant lol

 

[sting101]

I think woodle talked about this quite a lot. The difference between being a backup and starter is huge. It’s the wear and tear and also the mental requirement. There are a lot of high quality backups in this league that can never be a starter and that’s just the way it is. Can Martin bounce back and be a quality backup next year? Who the f*** knows, it’s better to plan for him not being able to.

Is it poor planning to have Martin as the backup this year? Probably but then we are still paying for Holtby and Halak this year and that’s like 3.1M in goalie cost. I think most teams these days don’t budget that much money on goalies because money is better spent elsewhere.

Oh i completely get it. I feel for Martin because it was a huge ask but it was also a big opportunity. Delia has embraced it, while he hasn't . Maybe it's easier for Delia knowing he wasn't "expected" to do anything IDK but it's still tough to watch and horrifying if thats what they hope to bring back as a back up with a expectation to win games.

Given Demko's health concerns they may have to rethink it. May need more of a 25-35 game guy vs a 17-25 game guy. IMO no chance you can bring back Martin to Vancouver as a back up

 

[racerjoe]

People claiming goaltending is the primary problem with the teams win/loss record are correct.

The people arguing against this are acting like people are saying its only goaltending. NO. this team has a ton of issues, just the clear biggest reason for losses is goaltending.

 

[Josepho]

I mean, the goaltending is literally bottom 2 by every metric. The majority of stats sites have the team pegged at about -40 GSAE, and that's a pretty big deal for a team with a goal differential of -32.

If it's not the biggest problem or reason for underperformance, it has to be pretty f***ing close.

 

[Gurn]

Crappy goal tending is both a disease, and a symptom.
A Vezina level performance couldn't get this team into the play offs last year, when they had it.
nor this year, when they don't.

 

[Diogenes92]

We just expect to not have incompetence.

Look at Delia.

It's unfortunate for Martin. He got a elevated role by last years success to back up. Then with Demko's injury he got the starter role. Back up role was a stretch but at min wage it looked like an ok gamble. You hope to have guys move through the system and be able to fill these roles.

He's fallen apart. It was a low probability of success to begin with and now he's emotionally and technically a mess put behind a system and a defence thats a mess.

The GDTs are emotional. Guys get ripped ridiculed and mocked because it's largely smack talk. I think once that settles down into roster discussion most are pretty cognizant of the issues of defensive play and are not expecting a back up to prop this team up.

Not everybody is as reasonable as you when it comes to perspective on this board.

I just felt the need to push back a bit on the goaltending witch hunt.

 

[tantalum]

As always people want to point to a specific primary reason for losing and miss the fact that as a whole this roster just finds ways to lose. They score some goals but the goaltending or defense is awful so they lose. Or they goaltending is fine and they lose because they can’t score or give up 10 odd man rushes.

It’s the calling card of a bad team. The only thing they do passably well is the PP (average) and EVERYTHING else is well below average. Many many things need to be MUCH better. Goaltending is one of those things.

However, I wouldn’t say it’s the biggest concern because odds are it will swing back next year to average goaltending no matter the tandem. The blueline though, PK and team defense well those aren’t bouncing back without major changes

 

[Sedinery]

This was the first post to mention moral victories... then started saying moral victories in a sarcastic way.

Then to try and prove their point they switched from talking about this board to the media.

This team is playing better since the coaching change, and I think that is just as much a weight of the teams shoulders as anything. I also don't think noted some positives is claiming moral victories... it is just doing what the message board was made for and pointing out changes.

Thats just my opinion on this debate though... with the exception of just two posters sarcastically saying Moral Victories...

The team is NOT playing better. Losing record against what was an “easy stretch” in the schedule. We can’t even look good against the bad teams

People drink the koolaid about playing better

You sound like imac

Read his article on sportsnet.ca today….moral victories