Aphid Attraction
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2013
- 5,066
- 1,702
Lol, thanks for indulging my stupidityThats more like it!
Lol, thanks for indulging my stupidityThats more like it!
I still love you.Lol, thanks for indulging my stupidity
Loser core. Just a loser group. Nothing worth salvaging if Petey and Quinn don’t wanna wait around.Stop it...
This is getting out of hand.
The sooner the handful of retool apologists just man up and admit they got it wrong. That they thought the team was closer than it actually is, the sooner we get to actual normal hockey discussion.
No. We are not a team worth retooling even if Demko was healthy this year. Sorry.
Fact is we let Tanev walk and perma f***ed our PK.I wonder how much an analysis would even uncover. It seems to me like the skaters have been bad on the PK for the last two years but the goaltending has been the difference this year vs last. PK is 8% worse this year overall.
Teams have also killed them all season on cross-ice one-timers which you can probably blame on everyone.. but Martin sure seems to suck more than most at it.
I thought Bedard would’ve gotten us thereI think we are just few UFA signings and Räty away from contending my self.
Underated film (Starship Troopers).Finally saw the highlites, woof those were some bad Starship Troopers highschool football uniforms the Red Wings were rocking
What is this "we"? Gillis left Jethro with a 24 year old Tanev.Fact is we let Tanev walk and perma f***ed our PK.
We have never recovered from that.
f*** you Benning and FAQ.
No need for Bedard level players.I thought Bedard would’ve gotten us there
Their worst ever!Finally saw the highlites, woof those were some bad Starship Troopers highschool football uniforms the Red Wings were rocking
I usually agree with your posts which seem informed and well thought out but this is where I get off the bus. I can agree that most AHL call ups get a bit of a "honeymoon" period when they first get called up (certainly Martin had one) because the rest of the league hasn't figured them out just yet but your second point, at least in the case of the Canucks, is something that made me laugh out loud. I'm assuming that, like me, you keep track of the backup's starts and the game situations. If you look carefully at our club over the last really long time you will find our backups are more than likely to get the starts that are much harder to win and that they get the call to do that after stupidly long layoffs. This is, IMHO, the reason Holtby, Halak and a host of other goalies from the past have struggled here (and more often than not blossomed once they changed teams). Sitting for 14 days and then getting chucked into a back to back road game isn't going to help your numbers out one bit but it DOES save the golden child the stress of playing a game that they are far less likely to win. They do this, again IMHO, in order to make the starter's job easier ("pump their tires"?) and this is the reason that our #1 goalies often look much better than they are (and I include Demko, Markstrom and even Luongo and, God forbid, Cloutier in this group). As a result of this misguided approach our goalies get pumped up by the fanbase and the media and suddenly we have "Vezina calibre" goaltending (but, naturally without the Vezina). Currently there is a legion of Canuck fans who think that Demko is some kind of world class goalie, a conceit that I disagree with wholeheartedly. I say that if you had made Demko and Holtby (just to cite one example) switch starts in their season together you would likely have seen Demko flail just as badly as Holtby, perhaps even worse. It is significant that in at least two cases once our backup goalies extricated themselves from the hell that is the Canucks backup role they fled and ended up almost immediately winning the #1 job with other teams...I know MS is going to say that these are AHL goalies without that much talent so why is Clark suddenly doing a bad job. First of all, every year guys come up and play 10-20 games and often put up great numbers because they are the backup and therefore not too well scouted. Most AHL callups can at least manage .900 save percentage if they have the numbers in the AHL. Second, most teams unconsciously protect their backup and play tighter in front of them or score more goals. That one is hard to quantify but year after year you see guys put up gaudy backup numbers and when they become starters nobody knows how they will react.
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I usually agree with your posts which seem informed and well thought out but this is where I get off the bus. I can agree that most AHL call ups get a bit of a "honeymoon" period when they first get called up (certainly Martin had one) because the rest of the league hasn't figured them out just yet but your second point, at least in the case of the Canucks, is something that made me laugh out loud. I'm assuming that, like me, you keep track of the backup's starts and the game situations. If you look carefully at our club over the last really long time you will find our backups are more than likely to get the starts that are much harder to win and that they get the call to do that after stupidly long layoffs. This is, IMHO, the reason Holtby, Halak and a host of other goalies from the past have struggled here (and more often than not blossomed once they changed teams). Sitting for 14 days and then getting chucked into a back to back road game isn't going to help your numbers out one bit but it DOES save the golden child the stress of playing a game that they are far less likely to win. They do this, again IMHO, in order to make the starter's job easier ("pump their tires"?) and this is the reason that our #1 goalies often look much better than they are (and I include Demko, Markstrom and even Luongo and, God forbid, Cloutier in this group). As a result of this misguided approach our goalies get pumped up by the fanbase and the media and suddenly we have "Vezina calibre" goaltending (but, naturally without the Vezina). Currently there is a legion of Canuck fans who think that Demko is some kind of world class goalie, a conceit that I disagree with wholeheartedly. I say that if you had made Demko and Holtby (just to cite one example) switch starts in their season together you would likely have seen Demko flail just as badly as Holtby, perhaps even worse. It is significant that in at least two cases once our backup goalies extricated themselves from the hell that is the Canucks backup role they fled and ended up almost immediately winning the #1 job with other teams...
I appreciate your efforts; I'm not good at accessing the stats I need to make my assertions so I guess it just appears to me that the backups get screwed by our team. I thought Holtby did for sure; Halak I'm not so sure about and your research confirms that. This year when Demko went down it was just assumed that the order would be Martin/Delia probably simply because the team had gone and signed Martin based on his 6 game NHL "honeymoon" of last year but even after way too many bad games by Martin, Delia was relegated to only occasional use until quite recently. None of this changes the fact that a lot of our backups flourish once away from this team though which suggests to me that they have been somewhat mis-handled. As for Demko I still think he has been seriously overrated by our fanbase and if it were up to me I would be shopping him (to the California teams especially), that is if we are in fact rebuilding especially if he starts to look like he's injury prone. Anyways always glad to compare views with youThis is a lot of words to push your agenda that our starters are overrated and you love our backups, whoever they are. I have noticed you trying to mention this constantly during GDT's. I disagreed but didn't bother addressing it.
Here was our back-to-back record last year:
13 back-to-back games (I defined as games on consecutive day)
1st game of back-to-back: 9-4 (I didn't differentiate between OT/SO W/L)
2nd game of back-to-back: 3-10
Times starter (Demko/Martin) started 1st game: 10/13 = 77% (In the NHL the starter starts the 1st game around 80% of the time. This is the average for the WHOLE LEAGUE regardless of individual team philosophy)
Times Demko started 1st game: 9/12 = 75%
Times Demko's opponent was better than the second opponent: 5/12 = 42%
Times Halak's opponent was better than the first opponent: 4/12 = 33%
Times Demko started both games in the back-to-back: 3/12 = 25% (not including the QoC in the previous two lines)
In the double starts above, times Demko's first start was against a better opponent: 3/3 = 100% (It's possible Demko was not planned to start both games and coaches would see how he was doing after the 1st one. Also all these games were during the Bruce bounce back and also all in the 2nd half of the season when they were trying to make the playoffs
Number of times Halak started the 1st game of the back-to-back: 3/12 = 25%
Number of times Halak's start was against a more difficult opponent: 2/3 = 67%
Number of times Halak's inverted start was during a road trip: 3/3 = 100%
Times Demko faced BETTER OPPOSITION in his start: 8/12 = 67%
Demko's record: 6-9
Halak's record: 2-4
I only did one year but in my recollection they haven't really made a concerted effort to "give the backup the harder opponent" since most teams just give their starter the first start. The thing is, the NHL is pretty random so the odds of the favourite winning are just not as good as in, say, the NBA. Anyone can beat anyone so most teams give the starter the 1st of b2b's based on freshness of the team rather than the actual opponent.
This last year Demko got the hard starts in the b2b's but I'm sure if I did other years (I won't) it would come down to random variation and the starter would get the 1st start around 80% of the time (like the whole league). Unless it was like Lu in Minny or something.
I appreciate your efforts; I'm not good at accessing the stats I need to make my assertions so I guess it just appears to me that the backups get screwed by our team. I thought Holtby did for sure; Halak I'm not so sure about and your research confirms that. This year when Demko went down it was just assumed that the order would be Martin/Delia probably simply because the team had gone and signed Martin based on his 6 game NHL "honeymoon" of last year but even after way too many bad games by Martin, Delia was relegated to only occasional use until quite recently. None of this changes the fact that a lot of our backups flourish once away from this team though which suggests to me that they have been somewhat mis-handled. As for Demko I still think he has been seriously overrated by our fanbase and if it were up to me I would be shopping him (to the California teams especially), that is if we are in fact rebuilding especially if he starts to look like he's injury prone. Anyways always glad to compare views with you
People are incredibly emotionally driven and don't know what they're watching.People are incredibly invested in this being the WORST TEAM EVER, WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM EVER, NO HOPE, HAVE TO TANK and really don't want to have a discussion about how much the shockingly terrible goaltending has played into the record.
Again, you have to go back 30 years to find a team that was statistically this much worse than league average goaltending.