Confirmed with Link: Wings acquire Jeff Petry for Gustav Lindstrom and a 2025 4th round pick

[heyfolks]

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Ghost
Chiarot - Petry
Edvinsson - Holl

Almost feels like someone has to go. $3M 7th D?

You need to take Edvinsson out of that group. Dude is sidelined, after shoulder surgery, until October. He is earmarked for the AHL this season. (I would not be surprised to see Wallinder pass him on the depth charts).

Simon Edvinsson undergoes successful shoulder surgery | Detroit Red Wings

2021 sixth overall selection appeared in nine games for Detroit during 2022-23 season

www.nhl.com

That still leaves 7, which is what you need. HOWEVER, if Wallinder challenges, and is then seen as a clear fill-in and CHIAROT is a 5-6 he is a potential trade/buyout/waive player. Seems more and more are souring on the guy.

 

[Hoog]

What you see as logjam, they see as depth.

You did see I put "perceived", yes? I do see it as depth and possible tradeable depth to improve the team in other areas.

 

[DanielMarois]

It may be an upgrade, but Petry has been pretty awful over the past two years. A d core consisting of Chiarot, Holl, and Petry is still pretty bad.

 

[jkutswings]

The kid will carry, and the vets will get a reduced role. Everybody of them will probably play better, thanks to these new workloads with a better fit.

I see the logic of reduced minutes in Detroit versus their prior teams. I am just far more pessimistic in fundamental evaluation of the players involved.

Ultimately time will tell. I just happen to not want any of Chiarot / Holl / Petry to begin with, regardless of contract or usage. (I just don't like what the players bring to the table.)

 

[jaster]

this is also the first time Yzerman has set up a Holland level roadblock to them playing though

are there even any other teams out there around the league right now intentionally stacking the Defense 7 deep like that when they have promising prospects knocking on the door? i'd love to see some examples if so because that doesn't strike me as a thing that other teams are really doing at all

I mean look at the other promising D prospects drafted in the top 10 the year Edvinsson was

New Jersey certainly isn't doing that with Hughes and that's an actual top end team right there

the Kings aren't doing it with Clarke and they've been a Playoff team themselves the past couple years and he's barely even left Juniors yet

I guess I'm just really not concerned with what other teams are doing. Is there evidence that their way is the right way and Yzerman's is the wrong way? I mean, 1) Edvinsson isn't ready yet (partly due to injury, partly due to development according to the team), 2) Yzerman has shown that top prospects will play when ready, often at a very young age, and 3) all these vets are on relatively team-friendly deals that shouldn't be difficult to move out of the way if necessary.

I dunno, just seems like people are complaining about a thing that hasn't even happened. And while it's possible it could happen, there's no track record there, and the avenues to avoid it are pretty easy to navigate.

 

[Pavels Dog]

this is also the first time Yzerman has set up a Holland level roadblock to them playing though

are there even any other teams out there around the league right now intentionally stacking the Defense 7 deep like that when they have promising prospects knocking on the door? i'd love to see some examples if so because that doesn't strike me as a thing that other teams are really doing at all

I mean look at the other promising D prospects drafted in the top 10 the year Edvinsson was

New Jersey certainly isn't doing that with Hughes and that's an actual top end team right there

the Kings aren't doing it with Clarke and they've been a Playoff team themselves the past couple years and he's barely even left Juniors yet

It's usually cap space stopping teams. LA has like 100k in cap space and only 6 d-men, including Clarke. It's not like they are sitting there with 10 million in cap space refusing to sign anyone just to give a prospect a chance.

Columbus has like 8 or 9 d-men on their NHL roster not counting Jiricek - that's probably a better comparable.

I guess you could also include Dallas who has a stacked roster with no room for Bichsel.

 

[WaW]

this is also the first time Yzerman has set up a Holland level roadblock to them playing though

are there even any other teams out there around the league right now intentionally stacking the Defense 7 deep like that when they have promising prospects knocking on the door? i'd love to see some examples if so because that doesn't strike me as a thing that other teams are really doing at all

I mean look at the other promising D prospects drafted in the top 10 the year Edvinsson was

New Jersey certainly isn't doing that with Hughes and that's an actual top end team right there

the Kings aren't doing it with Clarke and they've been a Playoff team themselves the past couple years and he's barely even left Juniors yet

Would you rather Kasper play 4th line in Detroit or 1st line in GR?

Do you really believe that Edvinsson playing even better than he did in GR last year after he rehabs and recovers won't get called up to play over the likes of Gostisbehere, Maatta, and Chiarot if he's genuinely better?

There is no roadblock. There are only players that top young players shouldn't have any trouble displacing as long as they put in the work to move towards their potential. I'm not even remotely worried about this...Yzerman is not Holland.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Petry has never been bad defensively? Are you serious? He has regularly led the NHL in giveaways throughout his career. He is not good defensively.

I said Ghost was fine offensively but it is his defense I am concerned about along with Petry and Holl.

Holl is fine as a bottom pair D. Asking him to play as your #3 is a big mistake though. And that won't happen in Detroit.

I think we're looking at a trade of either Maatta or Chiarot during the season. With Petry having money retained that makes us retaining on Chiarot easier.
Maatta is easier to trade but is also easier to sit in the press box between the two.

 

[Gniwder]

Solid hometown veteran joins hometown team with his (local sports celebrity Dad's) Jersey #

at a great $$ rate and minimal return...

what is the dollar impact to the organization?

the publicity/interest factor?

it's a no-brainer

What's funny is that before free agency, there were a handful of posters complaining that Chris is cheap and won't spend money. At least that narrative is now dead.

I said Chris will spend on the Wings, because it's a money maker for him. I think it's a no brainer as well. Fans actually attending games, more concessions, and merchandise sales. Those Copp jerseys must be flying off the shelf the way some people here act, lol.

 

[Frk It]

Even if Yzerman is logjamming the roster like Holland he doesn’t have the same loyalty to players if they aren’t up to snuff.

We have seen him waive Abby and Vrana, terminate Zadina, etc. If you don’t fit into what he wants, then bye and thanks for coming.

So that should help resolve the log jam. I would not be surprised if Chiarot gets waived or scratched if he does not look like a top 6 guy. I know that doesn’t get us off the hook for his cap hit but it would open a roster spot up.

Also as far as Edvinsson getting blocked — he is 20 years old and we’re not even sure he’ll be healthy and 100% ready to start the year.

 

[raymond23]

Totally cool with a logjam at defense. I have little doubt that the kids will play if ready

My only gripe is the money and term that Chiarot and Holl were given. That complicates things more if you begin to bench them

 

[Frk It]

Petry has never been bad defensively? Are you serious? He has regularly led the NHL in giveaways throughout his career. He is not good defensively.

I said Ghost was fine offensively but it is his defense I am concerned about along with Petry and Holl.

Right because giveaways = ability to defend...

Ask a Montreal fan or look at his metrics and you will see he has never been bad defensively.

Also if you look at the giveaway leaders most years, 90% of them are people you would love to have on your team. Doesn't really mean much. I also have always questioned how accurate any of that is anyways.

 

[Frk It]

Holl is fine as a bottom pair D. Asking him to play as your #3 is a big mistake though. And that won't happen in Detroit.

I think we're looking at a trade of either Maatta or Chiarot during the season. With Petry having money retained that makes us retaining on Chiarot easier.
Maatta is easier to trade but is also easier to sit in the press box between the two.

Maatta was one of our 4 best defenseman last year and probably will be again. I would not trade him to make room for someone like Chiarot who has struggled just because he has trade value and Chiarot doesn't.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Not a move I expected, but it only improves us. We still have nearly $6m in cap space this season. We have $30m in cap space for next summer when we need to re-sign Raymond and Seider (and Ras). And I don't think this will impact Edvinsson's ability to get into the lineup in any significant way. He'll still get a chunk of games later on, and be in a good position to make the club out of camp next fall.

we really just need training camp to start so we have something to talk about.

Since you brought up edvinsson, I had this thought process earlier...

-Edvinsson get's shoulder surgery in may(?)
-Doctor tells yzerman that it will be 4-6 months
-Yzerman likes to look at worst case scenario, so anything better than that, then we are in business.
-So, this means he is thinking 6 month recovery (around November, early December timing).
-Yzerman then wants Edvinsson to get reps in the AHL so he doesn't rush him back, after all he is supposed to be the future and ruining his body or hurting it more so early on, wouldn't be ideal.
-So, Yzerman budgets another month in AHL (looking at december/January now).
-By then, we have a good idea where we are in the league for the most part.
-Retention on Ghost's contract would be great to get a great return for contenders. Could he be traded to make the room for ed?
-If so, then what if we add someone else to the trade, like maatta or chiarot?
-side note, i would hate to lose maatta, just like his game.
-Now, we have space after the trade of ghost, or even petry, to bring up edvinsson
-Edvinsson's first game is in February with the wings and he stays in the lineup.

So, I think this is Yzerman's thought process and the other reason why he added Petry. He is hedging his bets and thinking about worst case scenario and operating as that is the assumption of what is going to happen. If Edvinsson is back and ready to go in October, then we have some time to trade someone to make it work for him to get back. If not, then worst case is Edvinsson will be ready to join the team in February after rehab/conditioning stint in AHL.

Now, if my assumption is correct and Edvinsson starts in February, would he still be eligible to win the Calder in 2024-25? Or would he have played the max amount of games to make him ineligible? (I actually don't know so that's why I am asking).

Anywho, still scratching the head with Petry but I don't hate it. I'm glad we got rid of Lindstrom, just didn't understand that signing at all. Going to be an interesting year, that is for sure.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Right because giveaways = ability to defend...

Ask a Montreal fan or look at his metrics and you will see he has never been bad defensively.

Also if you look at the giveaway leaders most years, 90% of them are people you would love to have on your team. Doesn't really mean much. I also have always questioned how accurate any of that is anyways.

Had a discussion with someone on here about that (could have been you but not entirely sure).

If a player gets hit along the boards and loses the puck, some stat personnel use that as a hit and not a giveaway and vice versa. So in this scenario, the stat guy could put it as a hit and just leave it at that. I am not sure why they wouldn't just add all of the stats on the one play...

For instance:
Debrincat hits Barkov on the boards while Barkov has the puck. Barkov loses it to Debrincat in the process.

Stat input:
Debrincat = +1 Hit, +1 Takeaway
Barkov = +1 Hit Received (if that's a stat, unsure), +1 Giveaway.

That seems like it would just be the logical thing to do because all of this happened on that one play, but most people just credit the hit, the takeaway, or the giveaway. Really annoying.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Since you brought up edvinsson, I had this thought process earlier...

-Edvinsson get's shoulder surgery in may(?)
-Doctor tells yzerman that it will be 4-6 months
-Yzerman likes to look at worst case scenario, so anything better than that, then we are in business.
-So, this means he is thinking 6 month recovery (around November, early December timing).
-Yzerman then wants Edvinsson to get reps in the AHL so he doesn't rush him back, after all he is supposed to be the future and ruining his body or hurting it more so early on, wouldn't be ideal.
-So, Yzerman budgets another month in AHL (looking at december/January now).
-By then, we have a good idea where we are in the league for the most part.
-Retention on Ghost's contract would be great to get a great return for contenders. Could he be traded to make the room for ed?
-If so, then what if we add someone else to the trade, like maatta or chiarot?
-side note, i would hate to lose maatta, just like his game.
-Now, we have space after the trade of ghost, or even petry, to bring up edvinsson
-Edvinsson's first game is in February with the wings and he stays in the lineup.

So, I think this is Yzerman's thought process and the other reason why he added Petry. He is hedging his bets and thinking about worst case scenario and operating as that is the assumption of what is going to happen. If Edvinsson is back and ready to go in October, then we have some time to trade someone to make it work for him to get back. If not, then worst case is Edvinsson will be ready to join the team in February after rehab/conditioning stint in AHL.

Now, if my assumption is correct and Edvinsson starts in February, would he still be eligible to win the Calder in 2024-25? Or would he have played the max amount of games to make him ineligible? (I actually don't know so that's why I am asking).

Anywho, still scratching the head with Petry but I don't hate it. I'm glad we got rid of Lindstrom, just didn't understand that signing at all. Going to be an interesting year, that is for sure.

No, because he will have had played in 6 or more games in the 2 previous seasons, which is the max. Only way he could win the Calder in 24-25 is if he plays 5 NHL games this season

 

[Detroit Knights]

No, because he will have had played in more than 6 games in the 2 previous seasons, which is the max. Only way he could win the Calder in 24-25 is if he plays 5 NHL games this season

Perfect, thank you.

So that fuc*ing sucks. Wanted him to win it so we had 2 calder winners on our defense

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Perfect, thank you.

So that fuc*ing sucks. Wanted him to win it so we had 2 calder winners on our defense

According to some experts he is going to be blocked from joining the roster for at least the next 2 years by Petry, Holl and Chiarot, so he could still win the Calder in 25-26.

Don't Stop Believin'.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Right because giveaways = ability to defend...

Ask a Montreal fan or look at his metrics and you will see he has never been bad defensively.

Also if you look at the giveaway leaders most years, 90% of them are people you would love to have on your team. Doesn't really mean much. I also have always questioned how accurate any of that is anyways.

I’d rather keep Maatta as well but someone on the left will need to be moved. He’s got the shorter deal.

 

[Gniwder]

Also if you look at the giveaway leaders most years, 90% of them are people you would love to have on your team. Doesn't really mean much. I also have always questioned how accurate any of that is anyways.

The players that touch the puck the most are gonna have the most giveaways, based on the fact that they have the puck on their stick the most often. Larkin, Seider, and Copp lead the team last season in giveaways whereas Suter and Joey had the lowest numbers (for players who played the whole season). So it's a meaningless stat without context.

Chiarot only had 19 giveaways which is a bit surprising vs 46 for Seider. So yeah, judging defensemen by giveaways definitely doesn't tell the whole story.

The other number that sticks out is 8 for Raz in 56 games. I've said I like the way he protects the puck now that he can skate, but he's gotta work on getting his head up, passing the puck, and making a play.

 

[norrisnick]

I guess I'm just really not concerned with what other teams are doing. Is there evidence that their way is the right way and Yzerman's is the wrong way? I mean, 1) Edvinsson isn't ready yet (partly due to injury, partly due to development according to the team), 2) Yzerman has shown that top prospects will play when ready, often at a very young age, and 3) all these vets are on relatively team-friendly deals that shouldn't be difficult to move out of the way if necessary.

I dunno, just seems like people are complaining about a thing that hasn't even happened. And while it's possible it could happen, there's no track record there, and the avenues to avoid it are pretty easy to navigate.

I'm amused that the first piece of evidence against Yzerman's way being the wrong way is relying on their judgment on what is the right way.

 

[Perfect Human]

The more I think about it, this is great.

If AlJo, Ed, or Wallinder can't beat these D out of camp for a spot on the team then they belong in GRR.
Time to step up

 

[dalem177]

It's that it appears that Yzerman is collecting awful defensemen for the third pairing.

Or maybe he is better at hockeyball than some of us are.

 

[Henkka]

What's funny is that before free agency, there were a handful of posters complaining that Chris is cheap and won't spend money. At least that narrative is now dead.

I said Chris will spend on the Wings, because it's a money maker for him. I think it's a no brainer as well. Fans actually attending games, more concessions, and merchandise sales. Those Copp jerseys must be flying off the shelf the way some people here act, lol.

Yeah, this has always been crap talk. Because of the salary cap, Red Wings will always be making more money than the costs are. Thanks to cap, it's a flawless money making Michigan machine.

Good years or bad years, always making more money than losing. It's not anyhow big money compared to other US Major sports, but always on the positive profit side.

 

[Henkka]

The players that touch the puck the most are gonna have the most giveaways, based on the fact that they have the puck on their stick the most often. Larkin, Seider, and Copp lead the team last season in giveaways whereas Suter and Joey had the lowest numbers (for players who played the whole season). So it's a meaningless stat without context.

Chiarot only had 19 giveaways which is a bit surprising vs 46 for Seider. So yeah, judging defensemen by giveaways definitely doesn't tell the whole story.

The other number that sticks out is 8 for Raz in 56 games. I've said I like the way he protects the puck now that he can skate, but he's gotta work on getting his head up, passing the puck, and making a play.

Sometimes the best giveaway is a slapper via the glass out from the D-zone. One of the most winning plays in hockey - which no one appreciates. Clear the zone, but don't ice the puck. Get a shift change. That's art you can't read from statistics.

Puck control is one thing, controlled zone exits etc. Uncontrolled puck exits are still positive plays in real advanced stats, but on NHL.com stats they are full negative as "giveaways". How can you determine statistically a player, when same play is negative on public stats and same play is half-positive in some other stats?

It just creates a hatered in lunatic hockey market like many are in Canada.