Windsor Spitfires 2020 Offseason Thread (Part 2)

[windsor7]

And the sun sets in the west.....

 

[OHLTG]

Why worry about what others will say? If I did that I would never post anything. It's understood by all that not everyone will report and not everyone will work out. People will get upset at different things but as long as the move at the time makes sense at least Bowler and company can show they've tried.

It's not a matter of worrying but knowing what's going to happen. We've seen the Import struggles over the last several seasons (save for a handful of players), so why put a bigger risk than necessary in a time where everything is up in the air? It's like we sit here and complain about the Import picks (and rightfully so in some cases), but then insist they go for the big pick even if it misses. I don't get it, sorry.

Let's say they take someone in NA., if there's many that didn't go home during this pandemic and they're OK but not worth keeping the following year,
then what?

...and if they are worth keeping? Rafkin was worth keeping, no?

Sorry, if you can get a really talented player in NA who's willing and able to come here, why risk a player in Europe who could less likely to make the same trek? People are going to disagree, and that's fine, but I've said my stance on it (numerous times now). It's going in circles.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Protective of Bowler AND the coaches? That's funny!



They were also in a better position to wait on those guys. You can't necessarily afford that now.

It wasn't meant to be funny because you do protect them from any nasty comments. You say now you didn't like the deadline from Bowler but at the deadline you were lockstep in that it was the right decision to do.

Being in a better position? That's relative to your expectations and what your team looks like. For example you want them to just take a player as long as he reports instead of the BPA. Who was by most accounts the most talented player in the OHL draft? Fantilli?? Windsor had a shot at him and passed. Saginaw took him and if you told me there's a 40 game season and he doesn't play but shows up for 2 years in Saginaw?? So you sacrificed passing on the best player because of 40 games?? Faub is right you pass on the best players that end up in a league that's an indictment of your franchise.

 

[OHLTG]

It wasn't meant to be funny because you do protect them from any nasty comments. You say now you didn't like the deadline from Bowler but at the deadline you were lockstep in that it was the right decision to do.

I didn't want Bowler to stand pat; depth was the way to go. I've also criticized Letowski and the staff several times for various things. If you didn't see those comments, that's unfortunate.

Being in a better position? That's relative to your expectations and what your team looks like.

The teams that drafted Panik/Kuhnhackl were among the best in Canada. They could have waited a year because they didn't need them immediately. The same cannot be said for this club. While it's talented, it's not at the same level and adding talent right away is beneficial.

Who was by most accounts the most talented player in the OHL draft? Fantilli?? Windsor had a shot at him and passed.

So did 17 other teams?!

 

[windsor7]

It's not a matter of worrying but knowing what's going to happen. We've seen the Import struggles over the last several seasons (save for a handful of players), so why put a bigger risk than necessary in a time where everything is up in the air? It's like we sit here and complain about the Import picks (and rightfully so in some cases), but then insist they go for the big pick even if it misses. I don't get it, sorry.



...and if they are worth keeping? Rafkin was worth keeping, no?

Sorry, if you can get a really talented player in NA who's willing and able to come here, why risk a player in Europe who could less likely to make the same trek? People are going to disagree, and that's fine, but I've said my stance on it (numerous times now). It's going in circles.

Circles lol

 

[member 71782]

It's not a matter of worrying but knowing what's going to happen. We've seen the Import struggles over the last several seasons (save for a handful of players), so why put a bigger risk than necessary in a time where everything is up in the air? It's like we sit here and complain about the Import picks (and rightfully so in some cases), but then insist they go for the big pick even if it misses. I don't get it, sorry.



...and if they are worth keeping? Rafkin was worth keeping, no?

Sorry, if you can get a really talented player in NA who's willing and able to come here, why risk a player in Europe who could less likely to make the same trek? People are going to disagree, and that's fine, but I've said my stance on it (numerous times now). It's going in circles.

Do you think quality of player may have impacted people's opinions on import picks? In other words it's up to the GM to do his homework and decide who they feel is the best player and fans will form their opinion on the on ice results.

Again, why pass on a player who is considered the better talent at the time for one considered a lesser talent. I'm glad Johnston has turned out well so far but with a number of players ranked well above him I'm still not happy about the pick at that spot.

Take a chance on the big pick and it misses is a possibility but settling for a lesser pick? What if they miss? Any pick can miss so why not go all in? Missing on either would suck but if your only concern with missing is reporting then Bowler does his homework and he should be able to mitigate this. What if there is no season and regardless of where the kid is currently located at physically you end up drafting a kid that won't be here for a season that won't happen. Next year you have the lesser talent cause the short term, safe route was prioritized over the bigger picture.

Yes, Rafkin was worth keeping. Did they draft him because he was in NA only or was he drafted because they felt he was the best player to put on the ice in a capacity they needed? If they passed on a better player because he was in NA then they drafted him for the wrong reason. If the best player is based in NA then draft him but if being in NA is more important than skill level then it's the wrong move to draft the player.

Why will it be any more difficult to get a kid to report? If a kid/parent thinks it's too dangerous to report here during this time then being in Europe or NA won't matter, the kid won't be here. If your concern is will they be able to enter the country then as I said the other day, Europe is further ahead of the US at this point, arrangements are being made currently to get NHL players back into the country and if that works out opening the borders for specific purposes becomes more viable. It's not like these kids are coming here for a short time, they'll be here for seven months or more. They become part of the community.

There's no reason to approach this draft differently. You draft according to how you're building the team for the current season by drafting the best player available for what the team is planning. Not a contender? Draft a couple of high end 03s to keep building for the future. Contender? Consult NHL teams to find a high end 01/02 to help with a run.

NA/Europe, entry will be just as likely from either continent so not picking the best player, regardless of where they are currently residing makes no sense.

How many import draft eligible players do you think are currently are currently in NA right now anyways? I would guess there's only a couple with most of them having gone home when this first started.

 

[OHLTG]

Again, why pass on a player who is considered the better talent at the time for one considered a lesser talent. I'm glad Johnston has turned out well so far but with a number of players ranked well above him I'm still not happy about the pick at that spot.

Who's talking about Johnston?

Take a chance on the big pick and it misses is a possibility but settling for a lesser pick? What if they miss? Any pick can miss so why not go all in?

You pick a talented guy who's going to report. We're not talking about avoiding an A+ player and drafting some C- guy. That's never been the situation.

There's no reason to approach this draft differently.

I disagree. The whole pandemic thing is going to play a part.

Anyway, none of us are going to agree on this. So be it. I'm not that concerned.

 

[windsor7]

Who's talking about Johnston?



You pick a talented guy who's going to report. We're not talking about avoiding an A+ player and drafting some C- guy. That's never been the

How is it not?

 

[Teflon]

Some on here are on both sides regularly!!! Some preach about having an ok team that makes the playoffs regularly and their ok with that. Many of us are ok with down years if the up years are serious chances at winning a cup!! So that ideal is what makes you choose which kinda player your looking at. Rayzor u surprise me, your one of those who has preached mediocrity is ok with you yet currently you want them to reach for a pick?!?! I’m confused... Again guys this is where the team must do the homework! Who is available at your pick, who will report, who needs some coaxing and who is a sure no way?? Homework answers those questions, then the pick becomes elementary.

 

[member 71782]

Who's talking about Johnston?



You pick a talented guy who's going to report. We're not talking about avoiding an A+ player and drafting some C- guy. That's never been the situation.



I disagree. The whole pandemic thing is going to play a part.

Anyway, none of us are going to agree on this. So be it. I'm not that concerned.

Johnston was an example of taking a lower ranked player above their draft position. I should have known you would have missed or ignored the point which is taking a lower ranked player instead of a player ranked where your picking. Imagine taking Pinelli, ranked much higher while risking Johnston being in the range he was ranked. Yes, I know Hamilton was supposed to be interested in him. Windsor settled on the lower ranked player, who has turned out pretty good anyways while passing on the better player or five/six draft picks if he didn't report with the only risk being Johnston not being there when Windsor picked in the second round. Kind of like picking based on any other reason than talent.

You've been suggesting this whole time taking someone from NA instead of Europe in the import draft. You seem to be prioritizing it. Hasn't that been what this whole debate has been about? Everyone else has been saying take BPA, prioritize talent, swing for the fences regardless of where they currently are while you continue to suggest picking a NA based import was the way you felt they should go. Now you're saying what? I would hope if they're playing in the USHL they're a good player but if they aren't the best player available you still suggest take the lower tiered talent based on location.

I don't disagree the pandemic will play a part in things, just don't agree it will have the same limitations you do or justify taking a lower level talent because of it.

IMO the effects will determine if there is a season and capacity issues. If there's going to be issues with a player's ability to report it will likely affect American born players as well. If the NHL can get players back from Europe then there will be no viable case against import players in the CHL. Follow the guidelines, two weeks quarantine and whatever else the leagues need to follow. Again, these won't be kids coming for a short stay.

Here's the bigger concerns.

Will there be a season?
Will there be border issues with the US teams?
How will training camp be affected?
How will American prospects be affected by training camps? Will they have to come over two weeks early to quarantine? Will they do that, show up only to potentially have to go through quarantine again if they don't make the cut?
Will American prospects only show up if they're signed and guaranteed a roster spot?
Will any flyer picks who can only be here for 48 hours have any quarantine time affect them keeping them away?
Who's going to fill the other roster spots that are available if American prospects see it as too much of a hassle to come to camp?

The pandemic is creating a lot of questions but a two week quarantine period for someone coming from Europe is probably the least of them.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Some on here are on both sides regularly!!! Some preach about having an ok team that makes the playoffs regularly and their ok with that. Many of us are ok with down years if the up years are serious chances at winning a cup!! So that ideal is what makes you choose which kinda player your looking at. Rayzor u surprise me, your one of those who has preached mediocrity is ok with you yet currently you want them to reach for a pick?!?! I’m confused... Again guys this is where the team must do the homework! Who is available at your pick, who will report, who needs some coaxing and who is a sure no way?? Homework answers those questions, then the pick becomes elementary.

What are you referring to?? I never said mediocrity is ok. In fact I want a team that is consistently good on a year to year basis, winning division titles, winning playoff rounds and having the opportunity to win championships every few years. Saying the organization has been mediocre for 8-9 seasons doesn't mean I am in favor of being mediocre.

In regards to the import draft you draft the BPA. You shouldn't be drafting with the idea of a pandemic going on you draft a player currently in NA because in a lot of those cases they already went back to europe. Spits selected Rafkin he was good for just 59 games. I am not interested in the reasons why he went home only interested in the fact they have a huge hole to fill on D in some way. I never once said to make a reach because with the import draft it can change year to year. Select the best player and recruit that player. Spits under Bowler have clearly played it safe and safe is fine if you're fine with being middle of the pack.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Johnston was an example of taking a lower ranked player above their draft position. I should have known you would have missed or ignored the point which is taking a lower ranked player instead of a player ranked where your picking. Imagine taking Pinelli, ranked much higher while risking Johnston being in the range he was ranked. Yes, I know Hamilton was supposed to be interested in him. Windsor settled on the lower ranked player, who has turned out pretty good anyways while passing on the better player or five/six draft picks if he didn't report with the only risk being Johnston not being there when Windsor picked in the second round. Kind of like picking based on any other reason than talent.

You've been suggesting this whole time taking someone from NA instead of Europe in the import draft. You seem to be prioritizing it. Hasn't that been what this whole debate has been about? Everyone else has been saying take BPA, prioritize talent, swing for the fences regardless of where they currently are while you continue to suggest picking a NA based import was the way you felt they should go. Now you're saying what? I would hope if they're playing in the USHL they're a good player but if they aren't the best player available you still suggest take the lower tiered talent based on location.

I don't disagree the pandemic will play a part in things, just don't agree it will have the same limitations you do or justify taking a lower level talent because of it.

IMO the effects will determine if there is a season and capacity issues. If there's going to be issues with a player's ability to report it will likely affect American born players as well. If the NHL can get players back from Europe then there will be no viable case against import players in the CHL. Follow the guidelines, two weeks quarantine and whatever else the leagues need to follow. Again, these won't be kids coming for a short stay.

Here's the bigger concerns.

Will there be a season?
Will there be border issues with the US teams?
How will training camp be affected?
How will American prospects be affected by training camps? Will they have to come over two weeks early to quarantine? Will they do that, show up only to potentially have to go through quarantine again if they don't make the cut?
Will American prospects only show up if they're signed and guaranteed a roster spot?
Will any flyer picks who can only be here for 48 hours have any quarantine time affect them keeping them away?
Who's going to fill the other roster spots that are available if American prospects see it as too much of a hassle to come to camp?

The pandemic is creating a lot of questions but a two week quarantine period for someone coming from Europe is probably the least of them.

The beautiful thing about talking about drafting a european playing in NA this past year is that you can look and see who did.

USHL had 29 total players that were from Europe who played the 19-20 season over in North America. Ignoring European players that are 99(not eligible), 00(would be an OA this year and extremely unlikely to be drafted). We were left with a total of 14 players either born in 2001 or later. 6 of those players have commitments to NCAA schools included are (MSU, OSU, St Cloud St, Quinnipiac). Reduce the list further all but 1 or 2 of those players were D. The most intriguing player is an 03 with Youngstown and from Japan. In other words it's extremely unlikely the USHL is going to boasting a lot of players being drafted into the CHL Import Draft.

Another day I will look at the NAHL.

 

[Teflon]

You have many times said your ok with a team that makes the playoffs and may contend rather than a team that may be on the bottom end at times building for the ultimate prize. We’ve had numerous discussions on those lines. My choice is you sometimes have to sacrifice when the grand plan is championships. Everything else is failure. Seemingly with that attitude you would select the safe player rather than the risky guy so how can you justify taking BPA when ur ok with mediocrity?

 

[Spitsfan191]

and as of right now the decision to have fans in the stands has 100% nothing to do with the OHL and everything to do with the province.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

You have many times said your ok with a team that makes the playoffs and may contend rather than a team that may be on the bottom end at times building for the ultimate prize. We’ve had numerous discussions on those lines. My choice is you sometimes have to sacrifice when the grand plan is championships. Everything else is failure. Seemingly with that attitude you would select the safe player rather than the risky guy so how can you justify taking BPA when ur ok with mediocrity?

Absolutely in regards to the first sentence. We are witnessing what the "go for it year and mediocrity afterwards" gets you in regards to fan support. If you're consistent year to year you will have more kicks at the can which is what you want. Do you believe the best organizations in the OHL are "play it safe" in regards to how they draft and make moves?? I am not selecting a safe player based upon a pandemic that's for sure. If the goal is to be good year after year win playoff rounds and contend then playing it safe isn't going to get you there. Last time I checked you need to win playoff rounds in order to win an OHL championship.

 

[I guard the door]

Ok... CHL Import draft is coming up.... rather than getting into the argument as to whether to take a player who is already playing in North America or one from Europe, who would you like to see? Since our greatest need is... in my opinion.... on defense, who would you pick assuming that they are available?

I came across a couple of names and other than the few highlight videos, I haven't seen them play although they are ranked with the possibility of going in the 1st round of the NHL draft. The scouting reports seem to be favorable.

William Wallinder. 2002....LD.... 6'4" 192lb playing with Modo (Sweden)

Emil Andrae. 2002... LD...... 5'9" 183lb playing with HV71 (Sweden)

Stanislav Svozil. 2003.... D..... 6'0" 172lb playing with HC Prerov (Czech)

 

[member 71782]

Ok... CHL Import draft is coming up.... rather than getting into the argument as to whether to take a player who is already playing in North America or one from Europe, who would you like to see? Since our greatest need is... in my opinion.... on defense, who would you pick assuming that they are available?

I came across a couple of names and other than the few highlight videos, I haven't seen them play although they are ranked with the possibility of going in the 1st round of the NHL draft. The scouting reports seem to be favorable.

William Wallinder. 2002....LD.... 6'4" 192lb playing with Modo (Sweden)

Emil Andrae. 2002... LD...... 5'9" 183lb playing with HV71 (Sweden)

Stanislav Svozil. 2003.... D..... 6'0" 172lb playing with HC Prerov (Czech)

After doing nothing last year in either direction combined with the possibility that 01 Afanasyev, 02 McDonald and 02 Robinson might not be back puts Windsor's focus on building around the 03 group.

IF this becomes the case they need to look at the top 2021/22 draft eligible 03 imports, preferably D. This puts their contending window in 2021/22 and 2022/23. This would also mean Bowler needs to be very active in the trade market with vets heading out and youth coming back. With the OHL hosting he should get solid returns.

IF those three will be back then looking at the top 02/late bday 01 imports again, preferably D that should be high end draft picks this year. This puts their contending window in 2020/21 and 2021/22. Bowler would have to make a couple of smart deals to maintain a two year window.

The third option is to get a couple of already NHL drafted 01s who's teams would push them to Windsor for the year. I would only go this route if they are assured of Corcoran returning, the three above will be returning and a couple of 01/02 flyer picks are coming in, highly unlikely. This makes Windsor a contender this year without having to add to simply fill holes leaving their assets for the deadline. This makes them a likely one and done this year throwing everything they have at a run, likely emptying the cupboard and a few kids getting moved as well.

What info they have on who is/wants to return will determine the birth years of who they draft.

 

[ForestCityHky]

After doing nothing last year in either direction combined with the possibility that 01 Afanasyev, 02 McDonald and 02 Robinson might not be back puts Windsor's focus on building around the 03 group.

IF this becomes the case they need to look at the top 2021/22 draft eligible 03 imports, preferably D. This puts their contending window in 2021/22 and 2022/23. This would also mean Bowler needs to be very active in the trade market with vets heading out and youth coming back. With the OHL hosting he should get solid returns.

IF those three will be back then looking at the top 02/late bday 01 imports again, preferably D that should be high end draft picks this year. This puts their contending window in 2020/21 and 2021/22. Bowler would have to make a couple of smart deals to maintain a two year window.

The third option is to get a couple of already NHL drafted 01s who's teams would push them to Windsor for the year. I would only go this route if they are assured of Corcoran returning, the three above will be returning and a couple of 01/02 flyer picks are coming in, highly unlikely. This makes Windsor a contender this year without having to add to simply fill holes leaving their assets for the deadline. This makes them a likely one and done this year throwing everything they have at a run, likely emptying the cupboard and a few kids getting moved as well.

What info they have on who is/wants to return will determine the birth years of who they draft.

Why would Robinson and Mcdonald not be back?

 

[member 71782]

Why would Robinson and Mcdonald not be back?

McDonald is reportedly being shopped.

Robinson had some issues last season that seemed to put him on the wrong side of Windsor's interests.

Personally I think those two should be a big part of Windsor's plans going forward but there's been a lot of talk around them and others being on their way out. Some from the player's perspective some from the team's perspective.

Hoping it amounts to nothing more than rumours but the amount that's been out there, not just those two says there's likely something to at least some of the rumours with those having been mentioned the most.

 

[OHL 17]

McDonald is reportedly being shopped.

Robinson had some issues last season that seemed to put him on the wrong side of Windsor's interests.

Personally I think those two should be a big part of Windsor's plans going forward but there's been a lot of talk around them and others being on their way out. Some from the player's perspective some from the team's perspective.

Hoping it amounts to nothing more than rumours but the amount that's been out there, not just those two says there's likely something to at least some of the rumours with those having been mentioned the most.

Why would Robinson and Mcdonald not be back?

What if they don't want to play for the coaches that the Spits have!

 

[punch1943]

What if they don't want to play for the coaches that the Spits have!

There in lies the rub. There will always be conflicts between head coaches /assistant coaches and players. Rarely does everyone on a team get along. The GM oversees the whole lot of them. Without naming names last years team did have some bad actors. Healthy scratch’s that left fans scratching their heads were sometimes for good reason.
On most teams there are conflicts among one group and another, it’s up to the coach to keep disruptions to a minimum. When he fails to do that, the GM needs to step in and solve the problem. The off season is the time a lot of those problems get solved.

 

[OHL 17]

I don't think under the particular management setup, the problems will be resolved!

 

[ohloutsider]

Ok... CHL Import draft is coming up.... rather than getting into the argument as to whether to take a player who is already playing in North America or one from Europe, who would you like to see? Since our greatest need is... in my opinion.... on defense, who would you pick assuming that they are available?

I came across a couple of names and other than the few highlight videos, I haven't seen them play although they are ranked with the possibility of going in the 1st round of the NHL draft. The scouting reports seem to be favorable.

William Wallinder. 2002....LD.... 6'4" 192lb playing with Modo (Sweden)

Emil Andrae. 2002... LD...... 5'9" 183lb playing with HV71 (Sweden)

Stanislav Svozil. 2003.... D..... 6'0" 172lb playing with HC Prerov (Czech)

Unless a deal is cooked ( highly unlikely) the top skilled players won't be around when Windsor picks at 40. This Import "draft" will be a big barometer on Bowlers connections in the hockey world. I'm not holding my breath on this draft but would be really happy if Bowler proves me wrong, not only drafting a high end guy but getting him to commit this year would go a long ways to show he is a quality GM.

 

[TheGremlin]

I wonder if the Eric Guest video will open peoples eyes and will help change the culture of the sport. There is no reason why if you are a 16 yr old kid you should be scared to come forward about being forced to do drugs or anything else demeaning in fear you won’t be able to play hockey or will get blackballed or reduced playing time. Some people didn’t like the rookies picking up pucks and loading buses. Those things i have no problem with cause it is harmless. It seems the bullies will always find a way to do these kinda things to the rookies.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I wonder if the Eric Guest video will open peoples eyes and will help change the culture of the sport. There is no reason why if you are a 16 yr old kid you should be scared to come forward about being forced to do drugs or anything else demeaning in fear you won’t be able to play hockey or will get blackballed or reduced playing time. Some people didn’t like the rookies picking up pucks and loading buses. Those things i have no problem with cause it is harmless. It seems the bullies will always find a way to do these kinda things to the rookies.

It takes a strong person to come out and say all of this. I just don't like how he keeps the players identity a secret(yes you can eliminate and guess who it was). Claiming he doesn't want to hurt that players pro career? Did he care about your potential career when he told you to do cocaine?? Are you getting a kick back from him as long as he plays pro?? This happened merely 3-4 years ago and nothing will be done about it in the league. Let me guess they will institute programs and a hotline for players to voice their concerns. Branch would never want to investigate one of the flagship franchises of the league.