Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Thread (Part 7)

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OHLTG

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Need to complain? Nope but express that while you are all giggly over having a better team the next 2 or so years, I thought the plan was to build a contender. Will we be better, absolutely, will will be a championship contender, hopefully but I think we are further away than we had hoped at the start of the year.

Even if we're a year further away than what we wanted, the comment was that negative talk was to "compensate" for the positive outlook. That's basically saying people need to find a reason to be negative.

As for the drafts...

2015 - Vilardi, DiPietro, Carter, Boka, Purboo, Stevenson
2016 - Corcoran, Angle, Playfair, Baier (and we didn't have a 1st)
2017 - Staios, Henault, D'Amico, Frasca, with Brimmer/Andrews still a possibility
2018 - Foudy, McDonald, Robinson

Even if you take 3-4 players per draft, and have those players be successful OHL talents, we've done well ove the last four drafts.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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If we got 5-6 players I guess you could say that's good, haven't in the last 3 so don't know where you got that number from.
Need to complain? Nope but express that while you are all giggly over having a better team the next 2 or so years, I thought the plan was to build a contender. Will we be better, absolutely, will will be a championship contender, hopefully but I think we are further away than we had hoped at the start of the year.
Reason I keep bringing up the the 17yr olds is that last year all the positive pair could do is talk about how many points outr 16 yr olds had compared to London's and how awesome we were going to be and now it's like that never happened.

Terrific post. People were very confident after last year with having 3 2017 1st rounders returning in Staois/Ladd/Morgan. It's great D'Amico and Frasca are seemingly ahead of the curve from 2017 but the team is where they are due to the lack of strides Staois/Morgan/Ladd have made.

If we want to talk about the recognition guys like Cuylle and Foudy are getting is it not fair to at least broach the subject of them possibly only being here 2-3 years. Wouldn't that also shorten any plans of a window of contention? This is why to say this year was a rebuild year, as was last year a rebuild year. When does it stop? If the team is much improved next year but find it in their best interests to get more assets for players is next year a rebuild as well?
 

Purple Phart

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Question: Did some of you miss the fact that Groundhog Day has come and gone ? History seems to be repeating itself on a loop....just like the movie.
 
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windsor7

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Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...



Was I supposed to name every single player?



When the discussion has turned to atoms, there's probably not point. Heck, this discussion is getting to that point, too.



So, because people are happy about what the future brings, we NEED people to complain in order to balance it out?

Yes, the proof is on the ice - it's a rebuild. They're going to struggle. Things are going well in terms of looking at the future. They're getting praise from NHL (multiple players). I mean, at some point, we have to see it for what it is.



Which happens. Almost every team has players that succeed in a rebuild while others fail.



...and the last few drafts? If you get 5-6 players per draft that do well in the OHL, you're doing pretty good. I'd argue he's at that right now.



Yet, here we are. There's a reason this topic is even coming up, no?



Just like some prospects turn out better than we expected? I doubt anyone really expected D'Amico to score 20 at this point. When there's shuffles to the left, there's also shuffles to the right.

We can sit here and go "What if these all go wrong?", but I don't get the point of that. We're really thinking worst-case scenario. Doesn't seem to make sense to me. What if all these things go right? What if half of them go right?

If they half of them are right, we might be talking about the favorite work on here "rebuild" again.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Even if we're a year further away than what we wanted, the comment was that negative talk was to "compensate" for the positive outlook. That's basically saying people need to find a reason to be negative.

As for the drafts...

2015 - Vilardi, DiPietro, Carter, Boka, Purboo, Stevenson
2016 - Corcoran, Angle, Playfair, Baier (and we didn't have a 1st)
2017 - Staios, Henault, D'Amico, Frasca, with Brimmer/Andrews still a possibility
2018 - Foudy, McDonald, Robinson

Even if you take 3-4 players per draft, and have those players be successful OHL talents, we've done well ove the last four drafts.

I will regret this but in regards to saying negative talk was to compensate for the overly positive outlook. When your franchise has a .518% since the end of 2011 to now and you act dumbfounded as to why people are negative. That's where the compensation comes from. As the saying goes you have to pay the piper. If you're going to throw all the positives about a team that's in 8th place in the conference you should realize there will be backlash. They have won 21 games out of 52 and 17th in the OHL for winning%. You're not interested at all in discussing how it's gotten to this point.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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Question: Did some of you miss the fact that Groundhog Day has come and gone ? History seems to be repeating itself on a loop....just like the movie.

It's like deja vu all over again.

ap_obit_berra_baseball_76155504.jpg


This is the wrong deja vu to have though.
 

OHLTG

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If you're going to throw all the positives about a team that's in 8th place in the conference you should realize there will be backlash.

That's the thing... this isn't a "yay, we're in 8th!" thing, but a "we've got a really good future, so let's act like it" thing. I mean, if people want to backlash JUST to counter the optimism, then... you do you, I guess? Frankly, I'm kind of pumped to see what this group can do. Are there issues? Of course. Those have been stated by myself, and others, numerous times. Doesn't mean there's not a ton of good ahead, though.
 
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TheGremlin

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Even if we're a year further away than what we wanted, the comment was that negative talk was to "compensate" for the positive outlook. That's basically saying people need to find a reason to be negative.

As for the drafts...

2015 - Vilardi, DiPietro, Carter, Boka, Purboo, Stevenson
2016 - Corcoran, Angle, Playfair, Baier (and we didn't have a 1st)
2017 - Staios, Henault, D'Amico, Frasca, with Brimmer/Andrews still a possibility
2018 - Foudy, McDonald, Robinson

Even if you take 3-4 players per draft, and have those players be successful OHL talents, we've done well ove the last four drafts.
You really can’t count Baier, Brimmer/Andrews or Robinson. Baier really wasn’t very good in the chances he got. And the others we don’t know. Staios has potential but he isn’t living up to it yet for being a 1st rounder.
 

hockeylegend11

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I will regret this but in regards to saying negative talk was to compensate for the overly positive outlook. When your franchise has a .518% since the end of 2011 to now and you act dumbfounded as to why people are negative. That's where the compensation comes from. As the saying goes you have to pay the piper. If you're going to throw all the positives about a team that's in 8th place in the conference you should realize there will be backlash. They have won 21 games out of 52 and 17th in the OHL for winning%. You're not interested at all in discussing how it's gotten to this point.

It's gotten to this point much like last year till the final 17 games,Spits hit a rut after selling off last year before and at the deadline, and this year a month before dealt the final piece the best goalie and their best player and leader.Spits were in 4th place last year when they dealt Luchuk, and this year when they dealt Dipietro they were in
5th 4 points out of third,on a 9-5-1 streak,trending upwards after a slow start,since that trade they are 0-5 against the top 3 of 4 teams in league,the season series against Ottawa already over the other 1st place teams,all going for it.
For me their record against the other15 teams in the league,which is 21-16-2-1,including 9-5 against the 4 2nd place teams in the league,tells me with the exception against the 4 best teams,they are competitive against the non going fot it teams in the league.
This season for the 1st time in awhile they have struggled against the East 5-11,while against the West they are 16-16-3-1,including 2-7-1 against London and SSM combined, 14-9-2-1 against the rest of the conference, works for me for the most part.
Their record like the last part of last year another huge contributor to some struggles,as they are 7-17-2-1.
If this were an older team I would be concerned, but they are not,so my concern is not as much.
Interesting you can talk about the last 8 years but wont go to 10,if I cant go to 10 then the same should apply to you.
Both times when key players were dealt this year and last the team has dipped,perhaps you can tell us why they weren't struggling prior to gutting the team last year, and their best player this season,will be interesting to see your reasoning.
 

hockeylegend11

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Terrific post. People were very confident after last year with having 3 2017 1st rounders returning in Staois/Ladd/Morgan. It's great D'Amico and Frasca are seemingly ahead of the curve from 2017 but the team is where they are due to the lack of strides Staois/Morgan/Ladd have made.

If we want to talk about the recognition guys like Cuylle and Foudy are getting is it not fair to at least broach the subject of them possibly only being here 2-3 years. Wouldn't that also shorten any plans of a window of contention? This is why to say this year was a rebuild year, as was last year a rebuild year. When does it stop? If the team is much improved next year but find it in their best interests to get more assets for players is next year a rebuild as well?

Not sure why you slag Ladd,last year as a seldom used 1st rounder from Kitchener, arrives here gets 5 points in 30 games,was a plus 3,only a -3 in the playoffs vs the 2nd highest scoring team in the O,Sarnia,as a 16 year old,this year after 48 games played he has 2G,16A,18points,and the best plus/minus on the team at +15.
He started the year a bit slow in his 14 games he was -3,since then his last 34 games he is a plus 18,and he has put up
14 points.
I think despite his strong positional play, good stick, and increased confidence offense wise,his lack of physicality has turned off NHL scouting .To me he has been along with another 17 year old dman Louka Henault Windsor's most consistent dmen.
Henault who recently got rated for upcoming NHL draft,has been Windsor's most improved dman from last year.The former 5th round pick,only had 2 points last year,was a -5,this year,2G,14A,16 points and a +7
You have to admit,nice pick in the 5th round.
 

hockeylegend11

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First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Second, concerns over the current state of the franchise and guarded optimism for the future are thoughts/opinions that can be held by the same person without being contradictory. There are obvious issues with how things are currently being run/managed/handled even though they have some young talent that can be the basis for a bright future. If the issues aren't resolved that are creating the current opinions about this team then regardless of the talent of the youth the future does not necessarily include automatic success. How many other teams have had high level prospects yet never achieved much success above a .500 record, including past Windsor teams? Cuylle, Foudy, McDonald and D'Amico all look to be bright young talents. Douglas, Corcoran Angle, Ladd, Henault and Frasca look to be potential strong supporting members, that's great for the future. Right now three of those players have 20+ goals, Angle has 15 and may reach 20 this year but when looking to the future how many of those players will be here beyond next year's deadline?

Angle will likely be back for an OA year in two years so he can be considered part of the future. Corcoran and Douglas, IMO are doubtful for two reasons. First they likely won't return for an OA year as both are drafted and Douglas in particular needs to face bigger, more skilled players to further his development and second if they are not likely to be back and Windsor is in need of assets then they should definitely be moved since they would bring the biggest returns outside of the 01s and 02s.

So yes, Windsor has some very talented kids and some others who should be significant, above average role players but looking at this line up and who should be here in two years raises some serious concerns. There are only eight players from the current roster who should be here IMO, leaving Piiroinen out of the discussion for now since the jury is out on him. That's ten bodies that need to be acquired over the coming two seasons, excluding goaltenders and extras for depth to be a very good, competitive team. The youth provides the optimism while the lack of numbers provides concern.

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly. More then ten years ago he was building a track record but the last ten years that track record of success has been far out weighed by less then stellar results. That is cause for concern.

The coaching has been beyond questionable this year and to a certain extent last year as well. Last year Letowski, even when making some questionable decisions got a pass because they were selling off but this year when there's been a clear mandate to keep developing the youth he has prioritized vets over youth all year long. Foudy and Cuylle have been the exception for obvious reasons but even those two at times have taken a back seat to players in various situations that should not have been happening. That is another major concern.

The players themselves, the leadership of many vets has been beyond lacking. Keeping a few key players around to provide guidance and leadership for the young kids is great, in theory but the vets of this group have failed to live up to this for the most part so now you have a bunch of kids who either have to step up on their own or will continue to follow the same aimless path that has been set out before them. That is a major cause for concern.

So yes, the talent of some of the kids provide a bright spot and cause to be optimistic but the track record of the last decade, the lack of direction on and off the ice combined with the lack of assets going forward create a lot of reasons to be concerned about the future as well. Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future. When a team fails to address the issues then it becomes justified to question both the present and the future and that will normally come off as negative to some since it becomes as repetitive as the issues surrounding the team.

This year we saw individual improvements from a number of players, top flight rookies come in and yet this team as a whole has regressed;. People can throw out DiPietro being moved this year as the reason all they like but that's a crutch when you consider how many pieces were moved last year combined with how many pieces were returned and added to this year. Regressing after what they did last year is a sign that there are major issues. They should not have been considered a top four team this year and yes, that's Rychel trying to sell the product but going backwards when there were at least three teams in their conference that were going to be taking a step back, like Windsor did last year and two other teams that were still a step behind Windsor should be considered unacceptable. That is the biggest cause for concern for the future.

I'm optimistic that things will be better next year as well as going beyond but next year there are a lot of pieces who should not be returning for various reasons, more that should be moved come the deadline but the issue that creates is Rychel needs to fill those spots with limited assets. Rychel probably needs at least five forwards, three D and at least one goaltender next season. That's a lot of bodies to add over an off season and if everyone who should be moved is moved that doesn't address depth which as we are seeing now and have in the past as well can be a major problem. That's another major cause of concern.

Potentially bright future? Yes. Will the way things have gone the last ten years bring it to fruition? No. Rychel needs to have a year on par with the 07/08 to 10/11 seasons and that's going to take a lot for that to happen. with limited resources to accomplish it. I see more of 2011/12 to 2016/17 in this rebuild then I see of the season leading up to 2010/11. Hopefully Rychel proves me and others wrong but as of right now the only optimism is surrounding the young players and not the way things have been handled.

Well Rychel can prove you wrong like he did in 2017,winning a championship not the way some wanted I know,but a champ is a champ,and winning a championship that year was a goal,it happened
more impressive considering Windsor was still under sanctions, and lost a player early to the NHL, which prompted trading more assets then he would have liked.
The drafts of 2015,entry,getting Dipietro, Vilardi, etc,and the Euro draft Sergachev was critical to champion ship success.
No reason the drafts of 2018,and 2019,plus the acquisition of Cuylle will bear similar fruit.
One other thing,I disagree about Douglas and Corcoran, I feel both along with Angle will be the o/as in 2020/21 season,and that year might be the last year we see Foudy and Cuylle play here,think they will both be 3 year players in the O not 4.
 

TheGremlin

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It's gotten to this point much like last year till the final 17 games,Spits hit a rut after selling off last year before and at the deadline, and this year a month before dealt the final piece the best goalie and their best player and leader.Spits were in 4th place last year when they dealt Luchuk, and this year when they dealt Dipietro they were in
5th 4 points out of third,on a 9-5-1 streak,trending upwards after a slow start,since that trade they are 0-5 against the top 3 of 4 teams in league,the season series against Ottawa already over the other 1st place teams,all going for it.
For me their record against the other15 teams in the league,which is 21-16-2-1,including 9-5 against the 4 2nd place teams in the league,tells me with the exception against the 4 best teams,they are competitive against the non going fot it teams in the league.
This season for the 1st time in awhile they have struggled against the East 5-11,while against the West they are 16-16-3-1,including 2-7-1 against London and SSM combined, 14-9-2-1 against the rest of the conference, works for me for the most part.
Their record like the last part of last year another huge contributor to some struggles,as they are 7-17-2-1.
If this were an older team I would be concerned, but they are not,so my concern is not as much.
Interesting you can talk about the last 8 years but wont go to 10,if I cant go to 10 then the same should apply to you.
Both times when key players were dealt this year and last the team has dipped,perhaps you can tell us why they weren't struggling prior to gutting the team last year, and their best player this season,will be interesting to see your reasoning.
So in the last 30 years you are happy with making it out of the first round of playoffs 10 times. And only winning 17 playoff series with 10 of them came in 3 year span?
 

member 71782

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Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...

First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Which happens. Almost every team has players that succeed in a rebuild while others fail.

Yes it happens, with every team and every year. The number of players who fall into the not working out for the Spits seems to be growing. They seem to hit on fewer of their high end prospects a lot more regularly.

Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly.

...and the last few drafts? If you get 5-6 players per draft that do well in the OHL, you're doing pretty good. I'd argue he's at that right now.

In a 15 round draft 5 players is 30%, should be achievable. Hitting on 5 players and plugging 5 players into the line up is not the same thing though.
Even if we're a year further away than what we wanted, the comment was that negative talk was to "compensate" for the positive outlook. That's basically saying people need to find a reason to be negative.

As for the drafts...

2015 - Vilardi, DiPietro, Carter, Boka, Purboo, Stevenson
2016 - Corcoran, Angle, Playfair, Baier (and we didn't have a 1st)
2017 - Staios, Henault, D'Amico, Frasca, with Brimmer/Andrews still a possibility
2018 - Foudy, McDonald, Robinson

Even if you take 3-4 players per draft, and have those players be successful OHL talents, we've done well ove the last four drafts.

2015 Stevenson made it after a few years because Windsor didn't have many options at the start of last year. Is he OA material? If not then he's been filler for two seasons. Of those six, three remain and two of them should be gone before the start of next season.

2016 Baier? While the goaltending situation was handled extremely poorly last year when given the chance Baier never capitalized or showed any reason to make anyone believed he belonged. Playfair is quickly becoming a lesser Boka. Serviceable defensively, not to the level Boka was at his age and offensively challenged. Would you have been/be comfortable with either of these two as OAs? Of those four three remain, one of them should not be here come his OA season, one likely dealt to stockpile assets and one who if he continues to improve should be a solid OA.

2017 Staois has a lot of work to do as a first round pick and while he has shown improvements in some areas he has regressed significantly, or at least not lived up to expectations in many other areas. Henault will top out as a top four D on a decent team, nothing wrong with that but he should be easily replaced if this team becomes a contender or at least drop down to bottom pair. D'Amico has surpassed expectations and I can only hope he continues to develop that way. Frasca should be a solid third line centre on a very good team if he continues to develop well, nothing wrong with that. Until anyone else is here they are irrelevant. Of the four who are here two have met or exceeded expectations, one is up in the air and one is starting to regress.

2017 Foudy and McDonald have met or exceeded expectations while Robinson is an unknown. The concerns with Robinson at this time lie more with what is the organization thinking. Short line up, rebuild, signed 16 year old and yet they still won't play him everyday. The couple of games he's gotten he has shown potential, needs some work but would not be out of place on a young, rebuilding team. kind of hard to include him as a success when the team won't bring him up, next year we will find out more.

So of the ten listed from 2016 to 2018 that are regularly playing or have been moved six can be considered successes, one is doing fine but is replaceable while the other three are questionable in terms of their performance versus expectations. Sounds great except that as a team they haven't performed to expectations. Shows there have been some improvements in drafting but yet they still lack depth when it comes to having young kids who can fill in on a rebuilding team when needed. 60% of those who have been here have done well yet they haven't achieved 30% success in the draft still.

Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...

Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future.

Yet, here we are. There's a reason this topic is even coming up, no?

The topic comes up because wash/rinse/repeat. Full credit to you in some of your criticisms of what's gone on this year, you have become a bit more balanced in some of what you comment on but at the same time yourself at times and others remind me of Lions fans. No matter what the team does they can do no wrong for the most part. There is always some other reason for the problems unrelated to what the team/players have done. When myself and others point out what we see as issues the only consistent responses are we are negative, skewed stats to support a narrative that supports an argument etc which leads to more of the same creating the back and forth. As for myself the reason I responded was how I read your comments about negative comments for the now and positive comments about the future. Maybe I misread or misunderstood what you were saying but I understood it as you didn't understand how one person could be negative about the current situation yet positive about the future.

Like I said, this board reminds me of the back and forth with Lions fans, some feel no matter how bad they may be there is always an outside factor for how bad they are and when they do win a few it becomes an I told you so situation. At the same time when others criticize them for how bad they've been, explain/justify their position and still point out what they see as the good things going on and how they feel they can do things to improve they are labelled as being negative or simply ripping on the team.

This back and forth would probably lessen if people actually engaged those with opposing views, as you've done with me multiple times this year instead of simply jumping to the negative accusations and misrepresentative supporting arguments to try to prove they are wrong. Really no one is wrong, simply differing opinions yet, as with you and I many times this season we've actually had some discussions this year that in the past would have simply been two opposing views that didn't hear what the other side was saying. Yes it goes both ways and each side sees the other as the problem but when one side simply accuses moreso then engages the other side will always reply keeping the argument going, again, wash/rinse/repeat.
 

Teflon

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Let me try and find middle road lol. There’s hits and misses in the draft as with all teams. Hell 2 of the players who aren’t living up to 1st round picks were drafted by other teams. I’m still convinced it’s coaching for the most part!! But let’s be clear, some picks just don’t work. If they were all ours I’d be concerned. I do have reservations tho as we agreed to take them in trades. Our D is our weakest as we move forward no question. As for 8-10 players. I’m ok with believing that number can be achieved. That’s 4-5 each year if u want to use the 2-3 year window. 2-3 per draft and your almost there. We do have some assets that can be moved if need be and while a long shot there’s a bunch of kids whose rights we own. Not willing to panic yet. If TL starts the year next year we’re in trouble imho. Reason for concern? Sure. Doom and gloom? No chance. Junior teams cycle a ton. Some never see solid runs or mem cups. Some would have us believe that a few rounds every year is ok and a measure of success. I disagree. I want finals and mem cups and lotsa kids going pro from my team. If I’m not getting there I’m selling to try again. Yes London is a unicorn right now. Quit using that as a measuring stick. That said, slagging WR up to now is unfounded. He’s been approached by more than one nhl team, if he wasn’t doing a good job that isn’t happening. As a STH am I happy? Not exactly but I’m realistic. Lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes most of you never even know about. I’ve said this before, keeping a group of teenagers happy and on track is difficult at best! Those of u with kids just imagine balancing 20+ of them, all boys, on point. Seems like windsor has had a bit of a run with some that are hard headed. Every team has at one point or another we’ll get thru it.
 

hockeylegend11

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So in the last 30 years you are happy with making it out of the first round of playoffs 10 times. And only winning 17 playoff series with 10 of them came in 3 year span?

I was happy prior to the Riolo years especially 1988,and have been satisfied for the last 12 with 3 Mem Cups and 2 league championships,nobody in the O can match Mem Cup record in the 12 year old ownership 3 of them,heck the Hunters in London have only won 2 in 18,and they had 2 kicks in the can at home,in that stretch, and win once.
Oh I was away for 11 of the 30 years,so for the 19,Riolo times not withstanding satisfying overall for me, more positive then negative.
 

member 71782

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Well Rychel can prove you wrong like he did in 2017,winning a championship not the way some wanted I know,but a champ is a champ,and winning a championship that year was a goal,it happened
more impressive considering Windsor was still under sanctions, and lost a player early to the NHL, which prompted trading more assets then he would have liked.
The drafts of 2015,entry,getting Dipietro, Vilardi, etc,and the Euro draft Sergachev was critical to champion ship success.
No reason the drafts of 2018,and 2019,plus the acquisition of Cuylle will bear similar fruit.
One other thing,I disagree about Douglas and Corcoran, I feel both along with Angle will be the o/as in 2020/21 season,and that year might be the last year we see Foudy and Cuylle play here,think they will both be 3 year players in the O not 4.

Well for 2017 I gave full credit for them winning the tourney and was very critical of how they got there. Leading up to that time frame there were abo0ut four very questionable drafts and then a whole lot of buying/selling to make that run possible as well as six years of building/rebuilding. Since then we've heard about how great the drafts were starting around 2015 and yes there have been some very good players starting with Vilardi and DiPietro but since then it's been more of the same prior to 2015. Some good players? Yes. Many that haven't panned out? Yes. Many more that wouldn't commit? Yes. The problem is since that 2015 draft and all the improved drafting since then we have no depth to turn to in the second year of a rebuild while playing with a short line up. So that re enforces my thought that yes, there have been some good/very good players drafted but overall the drafts have lacked depth which is just as important as getting a star or two every couple of years.

Want Rychel to prove me wrong?

Simple, bring up a couple of kids, on B cards get them in for a couple of games here and there to ice a full line up. If he has no one from the past three drafts able to do that then how good were the drafts?

Now if he can't do that, which from your own comments about there is no one ready to come up at this time or not worth an A card and the contract that goes with it then he's not doing that this year. Next year he needs to turn over about half the roster, likely overhaul the coaching staff and rebuild the mindset and expectations of this organization. A lot to ask in an off season and that's simply to return this team to a competitive level where they are in the conversation for a fourth/fifth place finish.

can he do it? I hope so and will sing his praises if he does but if not I will give credit and critiques where due.

As for Douglas and Corcoran, we disagree on that and I have no issue with that. My position is it will be a required move to continue stocking the cupboards and not because they aren't worthy of being OAs, they would be except I don't think Rychel can afford to take the risk of them not returning.

Foudy and Cuylle I agree are likely 3 year players. Foudy has a chance at being a 4 year player but Cuylle also has the chance at being a 2 year player if he has a great off season and can continue to step up his play. For arguments sake let's say we both agree they will be gone after 3 years, if Windsor is in another one of these long/extended rebuilds like they were between 2011 and 2017 do you move them in their third year if it appears doubtful Windsor will be in a position to make a run? That's honestly a conversation I hope doesn't come around but as of now, I expect it will if there aren't significant changes.

Would you hold them and make a half *** run like 2011 or would you be on the side of moving them if it came to that?
 
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hockeylegend11

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Sep 11, 2010
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Let me try and find middle road lol. There’s hits and misses in the draft as with all teams. Hell 2 of the players who aren’t living up to 1st round picks were drafted by other teams. I’m still convinced it’s coaching for the most part!! But let’s be clear, some picks just don’t work. If they were all ours I’d be concerned. I do have reservations tho as we agreed to take them in trades. Our D is our weakest as we move forward no question. As for 8-10 players. I’m ok with believing that number can be achieved. That’s 4-5 each year if u want to use the 2-3 year window. 2-3 per draft and your almost there. We do have some assets that can be moved if need be and while a long shot there’s a bunch of kids whose rights we own. Not willing to panic yet. If TL starts the year next year we’re in trouble imho. Reason for concern? Sure. Doom and gloom? No chance. Junior teams cycle a ton. Some never see solid runs or mem cups. Some would have us believe that a few rounds every year is ok and a measure of success. I disagree. I want finals and mem cups and lotsa kids going pro from my team. If I’m not getting there I’m selling to try again. Yes London is a unicorn right now. Quit using that as a measuring stick. That said, slagging WR up to now is unfounded. He’s been approached by more than one nhl team, if he wasn’t doing a good job that isn’t happening. As a STH am I happy? Not exactly but I’m realistic. Lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes most of you never even know about. I’ve said this before, keeping a group of teenagers happy and on track is difficult at best! Those of u with kids just imagine balancing 20+ of them, all boys, on point. Seems like windsor has had a bit of a run with some that are hard headed. Every team has at one point or another we’ll get thru it.

Even London lately 1 Mem Cup in last 5 years,2 years before and 2 years after only 3 playoff series wins,and that's including the outside help they got beating Windsor in 2017,hardly a unicorn in this stretch.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Nov 16, 2007
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It's gotten to this point much like last year till the final 17 games,Spits hit a rut after selling off last year before and at the deadline, and this year a month before dealt the final piece the best goalie and their best player and leader.Spits were in 4th place last year when they dealt Luchuk, and this year when they dealt Dipietro they were in
5th 4 points out of third,on a 9-5-1 streak,trending upwards after a slow start,since that trade they are 0-5 against the top 3 of 4 teams in league,the season series against Ottawa already over the other 1st place teams,all going for it.
For me their record against the other15 teams in the league,which is 21-16-2-1,including 9-5 against the 4 2nd place teams in the league,tells me with the exception against the 4 best teams,they are competitive against the non going fot it teams in the league.
This season for the 1st time in awhile they have struggled against the East 5-11,while against the West they are 16-16-3-1,including 2-7-1 against London and SSM combined, 14-9-2-1 against the rest of the conference, works for me for the most part.
Their record like the last part of last year another huge contributor to some struggles,as they are 7-17-2-1.
If this were an older team I would be concerned, but they are not,so my concern is not as much.
Interesting you can talk about the last 8 years but wont go to 10,if I cant go to 10 then the same should apply to you.
Both times when key players were dealt this year and last the team has dipped,perhaps you can tell us why they weren't struggling prior to gutting the team last year, and their best player this season,will be interesting to see your reasoning.

First of all we need to move away from this narrative that this team is young.

Average Age
Spits 9th

Average Experience
Spits 12th

If you were to say their best players are their young players yes that would be correct. That doesn't make them a young roster though.

You can cite the Spits record before DiPietro got traded here's the rub though. The decision wasn't very difficult because we all saw the team wasn't good enough to make that climb into the top 3. The Spits weren't as good as London/Soo/Saginaw/Guelph.

I always look at it from the perspective that the team always controls their own destiny in regards to what the GM does. Unfortunately the teams have made it easy for Rychel to make these decisions. On the other side Rychel is the one that put these rosters together.

You have 08-11 following that it hasn't been very good. Unfortunately you are forbidden from speaking poorly of the franchise though.
 
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hockeylegend11

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
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Well for 2017 I gave full credit for them winning the tourney and was very critical of how they got there. Leading up to that time frame there were abo0ut four very questionable drafts and then a whole lot of buying/selling to make that run possible as well as six years of building/rebuilding. Since then we've heard about how great the drafts were starting around 2015 and yes there have been some very good players starting with Vilardi and DiPietro but since then it's been more of the same prior to 2015. Some good players? Yes. Many that haven't panned out? Yes. Many more that wouldn't commit? Yes. The problem is since that 2015 draft and all the improved drafting since then we have no depth to turn to in the second year of a rebuild while playing with a short line up. So that re enforces my thought that yes, there have been some good/very good players drafted but overall the drafts have lacked depth which is just as important as getting a star or two every couple of years.

Want Rychel to prove me wrong?

Simple, bring up a couple of kids, on B cards get them in for a couple of games here and there to ice a full line up. If he has no one from the past three drafts able to do that then how good were the drafts?

Now if he can't do that, which from your own comments about there is no one ready to come up at this time or not worth an A card and the contract that goes with it then he's not doing that this year. Next year he needs to turn over about half the roster, likely overhaul the coaching staff and rebuild the mindset and expectations of this organization. A lot to ask in an off season and that's simply to return this team to a competitive level where they are in the conversation for a fourth/fifth place finish.

can he do it? I hope so and will sing his praises if he does but if not I will give credit and critiques where due.

As for Douglas and Corcoran, we disagree on that and I have no issue with that. My position is it will be a required move to continue stocking the cupboards and not because they aren't worthy of being OAs, they would be except I don't think Rychel can afford to take the risk of them not returning.

Foudy and Cuylle I agree are likely 3 year players. Foudy has a chance at being a 4 year player but Cuylle also has the chance at being a 2 year player if he has a great off season and can continue to step up his play. For arguments sake let's say we both agree they will be gone after 3 years, if Windsor is in another one of these long/extended rebuilds like they were between 2011 and 2017 do you move them in their third year if it appears doubtful Windsor will be in a position to make a run? That's honestly a conversation I hope doesn't come around but as of now, I expect it will if there aren't significant changes.

Would you hold them and make a half *** run like 2011 or would you be on the side of moving them if it came to that?

Cfaub

Lets talk about the last 3 drafts,in 16 the year they were hosting, they had no 1st rounder,lost to sanctions,no picks in 3 and 5th,so they drafted Corcoran in the 2nd,Playfair in the 4th and Angle in the 6th,I like all 3
overall especially Corcoran and Angle,tough to get a star with no picks in 1st or 3rd,go to 2017,again thin draft board due to run year year before, need to beef up D,4 D leaving, lost a 5th in Nother,took Staios in 1st,was rated 1st round material,didn't have pick till 5th got Henault, then in 6th got D'amico and 7th got Frasca,for me with lack of picks did pretty well,even though Staios hasn't developed as yet, though the other have beyond expectations.
Fast forward to this year,1st time full board 16 players all 16 years old drafted,excellent picks in Foudy, McDonald, Robinson is developing, great trade getting other 16 year old Cuylle, and a number of other picks
I feel will be impactful moving forward.
They include Cade Lemmer, Spencer Evans,Tanner Kelly,Hayes McKay might be 1 or more others.
No doubt drafts this year is huge,toss in the fact that I feel Afanaseyev acquired from Ottawa will make an immediate impact upon arriving and for me the future is bright.
 

aresknights

Registered User
Dec 27, 2009
12,703
5,450
london
It's gotten to this point much like last year till the final 17 games,Spits hit a rut after selling off last year before and at the deadline, and this year a month before dealt the final piece the best goalie and their best player and leader.Spits were in 4th place last year when they dealt Luchuk, and this year when they dealt Dipietro they were in
5th 4 points out of third,on a 9-5-1 streak,trending upwards after a slow start,since that trade they are 0-5 against the top 3 of 4 teams in league,the season series against Ottawa already over the other 1st place teams,all going for it.
For me their record against the other15 teams in the league,which is 21-16-2-1,including 9-5 against the 4 2nd place teams in the league,tells me with the exception against the 4 best teams,they are competitive against the non going fot it teams in the league.
This season for the 1st time in awhile they have struggled against the East 5-11,while against the West they are 16-16-3-1,including 2-7-1 against London and SSM combined, 14-9-2-1 against the rest of the conference, works for me for the most part.
Their record like the last part of last year another huge contributor to some struggles,as they are 7-17-2-1.
If this were an older team I would be concerned, but they are not,so my concern is not as much.
Interesting you can talk about the last 8 years but wont go to 10,if I cant go to 10 then the same should apply to you.
Both times when key players were dealt this year and last the team has dipped,perhaps you can tell us why they weren't struggling prior to gutting the team last year, and their best player this season,will be interesting to see your reasoning.


All these great numbers you throw out year after year and yet........they havent been able to beat a single team in their peer group (conference opponents) in the PO in 7/8 years nor have the finished top 4 in conference either overcthe same period. (I could be mistaken, maybe they finished 4th once? Please correct me if wrong)
Even the above is you trying to show how conpetitive they are but the are what their record and standings say they are.

The way you massage stats and their record year after year one would think they would have at least once been in the top 40% of conf. ether in reg season or POs.

They just havent been competitive vs peers regardless of hos you selective use the #s. 7/8 years is a big sample size. And every year you tell everyone here how rosy things are.
But I have noticed you have stopped singing the praises and defending TL. You were pretty aggressive early in the year to those who questioned him.
In no way am I questioning him, I dont know if he is good or bad. But just noticedxyou have stopped lashing out at his detractors.
 

TheGremlin

Registered User
May 23, 2018
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Somewhere
Even London lately 1 Mem Cup in last 5 years,2 years before and 2 years after only 3 playoff series wins,and that's including the outside help they got beating Windsor in 2017,hardly a unicorn in this stretch.
So you comparing last 5 years where London was in 2 memorial cups and won 1 and won a OHL title and won 7 playoff series. That seems like a unicorn compared to Windsor of 1 memorial cup and no playoff wins. To me that seems like a big difference
 
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hockeylegend11

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
15,823
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All these great numbers you throw out year after year and yet........they havent been able to beat a single team in their peer group (conference opponents) in the PO in 7/8 years nor have the finished top 4 in conference either overcthe same period. (I could be mistaken, maybe they finished 4th once? Please correct me if wrong)
Even the above is you trying to show how conpetitive they are but the are what their record and standings say they are.

The way you massage stats and their record year after year one would think they would have at least once been in the top 40% of conf. ether in reg season or POs.

They just havent been competitive vs peers regardless of hos you selective use the #s. 7/8 years is a big sample size. And every year you tell everyone here how rosy things are.
But I have noticed you have stopped singing the praises and defending TL. You were pretty aggressive early in the year to those who questioned him.
In no way am I questioning him, I dont know if he is good or bad. But just noticedxyou have stopped lashing out at his detractors.

Regarding TL still dont think that's the issue,if it was their record prior to trade offs would reflect it.
Blaming coaches is easy,heck there were those who didn't like Thompson and we saw how that worked out.
Plus he got hired by NHL team Vegas to lead their AHL team and got them to 1st place finish in his 1st year.
 

hockeylegend11

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
15,823
3,861
First of all we need to move away from this narrative that this team is young.

Average Age
Spits 9th

Average Experience
Spits 12th

If you were to say their best players are their young players yes that would be correct. That doesn't make them a young roster though.

You can cite the Spits record before DiPietro got traded here's the rub though. The decision wasn't very difficult because we all saw the team wasn't good enough to make that climb into the top 3. The Spits weren't as good as London/Soo/Saginaw/Guelph.

I always look at it from the perspective that the team always controls their own destiny in regards to what the GM does. Unfortunately the teams have made it easy for Rychel to make these decisions. On the other side Rychel is the one that put these rosters together.

You have 08-11 following that it hasn't been very good. Unfortunately you are forbidden from speaking poorly of the franchise though.

They were as good as the 4 teams prior to all of them going for it,4-1 vs Saginaw, 3-0 vs Guelph, 1-2 vs London,and that 2nd loss here could have gone either way, 1--1-1 vs SSM prior to trades,once trade line passed all 4 going for it Windsor not,and all 4 will lose more significant talent then Windsor when all said and done.
 

member 71782

Guest
Cfaub

Lets talk about the last 3 drafts,in 16 the year they were hosting, they had no 1st rounder,lost to sanctions,no picks in 3 and 5th,so they drafted Corcoran in the 2nd,Playfair in the 4th and Angle in the 6th,I like all 3
overall especially Corcoran and Angle,tough to get a star with no picks in 1st or 3rd,go to 2017,again thin draft board due to run year year before, need to beef up D,4 D leaving, lost a 5th in Nother,took Staios in 1st,was rated 1st round material,didn't have pick till 5th got Henault, then in 6th got D'amico and 7th got Frasca,for me with lack of picks did pretty well,even though Staios hasn't developed as yet, though the other have beyond expectations.
Fast forward to this year,1st time full board 16 players all 16 years old drafted,excellent picks in Foudy, McDonald, Robinson is developing, great trade getting other 16 year old Cuylle, and a number of other picks
I feel will be impactful moving forward.
They include Cade Lemmer, Spencer Evans,Tanner Kelly,Hayes McKay might be 1 or more others.
No doubt drafts this year is huge,toss in the fact that I feel Afanaseyev acquired from Ottawa will make an immediate impact upon arriving and for me the future is bright.

While I feel the future has the potential to be bright until players are in the line up they have no effect on the team.

Lack of draft picks are based on team actions/decisions. Making an all in, one year run as the host they had to put everything on the line which makes the lack of picks the following year understandable.

The lack of picks the year before, excluding the sanctioned pick is because??? The team made moves, picks moved out and never recovered.

This past draft I agree, has the potential to be very good if they can get a few more players to report and they meet/exceed expectations. Until that time they have Foudy and McDonald to show for it with Robinson there to find out but for whatever reason not getting the opportunity.

As I was saying though the lack of depth from the last three years is apparent if they have no youth available/ready to call up in a rebuilding year. Contracts are what they are, a part of doing business and unless the player has no future they are irrelevant. Calling up Brimmer or someone else now who should make the team next year is not going to affect the contract much unless they feel two years of eligibility instead of three allows them to lowball the offer to get the player to sign.

Some good players the last three years but still a short line up every night says there are question marks concerning some of those players who maybe were expected to be depth players.

If there are players they think can contribute but don't want to call them up because their JR B team is in a battle for playoff positioning, well Windsor happens to be in a playoff battle and whatever is happening in Chatham, Leamington, LaSalle etc doesn't pay the bills in Windsor but apparently playoff gates are essential to paying them in Windsor. Certainly there is a certain level of cooperation required between Windsor and the various teams they have kids playing with but if Windsor can't prioritize their interests to provide the best possible, full roster on a game by game basis then complaining about lack of fan support has no relevance.
 
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