Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Thread (Part 7)

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Teflon

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Jan 6, 2018
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Imho WR is just paying more attention to what’s going on. He’s not happy and he needs to not only figure out what’s broken but get a few points across. If we’re to believe an earlier post TL is gone at season end. If that’s the case it explains a ton of things with this team. If the team knows it’s even clearer. There’s not much left to salvage this year. I’m all for the best draft position you can get, but somebody needs to bring some discipline to that room. I’m hearing just today that since Mikey left it’s a zoo. He was the guy they looked to and to some degree he kept things in line. Again just mho but the rooms I’ve been around a coach still had to carry the hammer. Team cpt’s cannot control everybody. There might be more amiss here than we know...
 

OHLTG

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Nov 18, 2008
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Why is STH attendance declining in Windsor? They have a good team, fair STH pricing, x- NHL players involved in ownership/GM and Head Coach, great arena, best OHL Jumbotron - what is causing STH to drop each year?

Offseason conditioning and money? What? Each Windsor player receives an offseason allowance for the gym I don't understand what else you are suggesting about money - explain

Do Windsor fans want to make the playoffs or not? I don't understand the lack of support.

What is with WR dropping in the players dressing room post game - what kind of "pep" talk do you think he is giving the players?

There are a lot of reasons for declining STH numbers, including (but not limited to) - less money to spend, the team not being at the top of the league, ticket prices (compared to Wsr Arena), food prices (compared to Wsr arena), a lack of physical play in the game, parking, etc. Some of it I agree with while other areas I go "that's how this all works."

Don't take this board to be the overall attitude of Spits fans. It's not. Really. I'm at every home game and, while people want to see the playoffs, people are very excited about the future.

WR is a very hands-on GM in that he's around the team often and knows the players. I don't know what kind of pep talk he gives them but I'm not surprised at all that he's in the room after the game.

I’m hearing just today that since Mikey left it’s a zoo. He was the guy they looked to and to some degree he kept things in line. Again just mho but the rooms I’ve been around a coach still had to carry the hammer. Team cpt’s cannot control everybody. There might be more amiss here than we know...

I've always been a believer that a team should be able to make their G the captain. If something happens on the ice, the referee gives special permission for the G to leave the crease to talk to those in charge.
 
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punch1943

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There are a lot of reasons for declining STH numbers, including (but not limited to) - less money to spend, the team not being at the top of the league, ticket prices (compared to Wsr Arena), food prices (compared to Wsr arena), a lack of physical play in the game, parking, etc. Some of it I agree with while other areas I go "that's how this all works."

Don't take this board to be the overall attitude of Spits fans. It's not. Really. I'm at every home game and, while people want to see the playoffs, people are very excited about the future.

WR is a very hands-on GM in that he's around the team often and knows the players. I don't know what kind of pep talk he gives them but I'm not surprised at all that he's in the room after the game.



.
[/QUOTE]
Don't take this board to be the overall attitude of Spits fans. It's not. Really. I'm at every home game and, while people want to see the playoffs, people are very excited about the future
Difficult for you to be able to say this.You probably only interact with 50 or so people at a game.
WR is a very hands-on GM in that he's around the team often and knows the players. I don't know what kind of pep talk he gives them but I'm not surprised at all that he's in the room after the game.
I too am not surprised. What makes you think its a pep talk? It certainly is not.
 
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OHLTG

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Difficult for you to be able to say this.You probably only interact with 50 or so people at a game.

No, it's not difficult for me to say this. The board is literally the only place where the negative attitude is prominent. There are certainly questions and concerns but not to the extent you see on here. I'm not sure what the "only interact with 50 people..." stuff is about. I doubt anyone talks to 100+ every game.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Nov 16, 2007
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Why is STH attendance declining in Windsor? They have a good team, fair STH pricing, x- NHL players involved in ownership/GM and Head Coach, great arena, best OHL Jumbotron - what is causing STH to drop each year?

Offseason conditioning and money? What? Each Windsor player receives an offseason allowance for the gym I don't understand what else you are suggesting about money - explain

Do Windsor fans want to make the playoffs or not? I don't understand the lack of support.

What is with WR dropping in the players dressing room post game - what kind of "pep" talk do you think he is giving the players?

I am not sure they have a "good team" they have some good young pieces. Whether you believe they're a good team is in the eye of the beholder. With that being said I can't see other teams fans fighting for 7th-8th place saying they have a good team.

The fans want them to make the playoffs if they have a chance to make noise. I don't think they're interested in being fodder for a 1 or 2 seed.

I think we are past the point of WR dropping by and giving pep talks.

I have a hard time believing the jumbotron is a selling point to going to games as well. Of course unless you are really dying to see the kiss cam then things are good.
 

punch1943

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No, it's not difficult for me to say this. The board is literally the only place where the negative attitude is prominent. There are certainly questions and concerns but not to the extent you see on here. I'm not sure what the "only interact with 50 people..." stuff is about. I doubt anyone talks to 100+ every game.
I was offering a qualifier . You say ‘while people want to see the playoffs,people are very excited about the future’. As you admit you only talk to 50 or so people that’s a very small % of the folks there. You made it sound or gave the impression you were speaking about a good number of folks when in fact you probably spoke to a few people in your circle of fiends.
 

OHLTG

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I was offering a qualifier . You say ‘while people want to see the playoffs,people are very excited about the future’. As you admit you only talk to 50 or so people that’s a very small % of the folks there. You made it sound or gave the impression you were speaking about a good number of folks when in fact you probably spoke to a few people in your circle of fiends.

1. I didn't say I talk to 50 or so per game. I said I don't know where that number comes from and, realistically, most people don't talk to 100+ per game (unless you're WR, maybe).

2. Your "when in fact" isn't accurate. This isn't a couple of guys talking hockey in the concourse before the game.

3. The negative attitude on here towards the future is vastly different than the attitude I hear at the arena from various circles. That's a fact.

I don't get why it's so hard to believe that attitudes at the rink are so much different on here. Then again...maybe I do...
 

punch1943

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No, it's not difficult for me to say this. The board is literally the only place where the negative attitude is prominent. There are certainly questions and concerns but not to the extent you see on here. I'm not sure what the "only interact with 50 people..." stuff is about. I doubt anyone talks to 100+ every game.
Out of curiosity only what other venues would you consider people use if they choose to vent or praise the Spitfires. Facebook, Twitter, letters to the editor.
 

windsor7

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I was offering a qualifier . You say ‘while people want to see the playoffs,people are very excited about the future’. As you admit you only talk to 50 or so people that’s a very small % of the folks there. You made it sound or gave the impression you were speaking about a good number of folks when in fact you probably spoke to a few people in your circle of fiends.

probably.
 

TheGremlin

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1. I didn't say I talk to 50 or so per game. I said I don't know where that number comes from and, realistically, most people don't talk to 100+ per game (unless you're WR, maybe).

2. Your "when in fact" isn't accurate. This isn't a couple of guys talking hockey in the concourse before the game.

3. The negative attitude on here towards the future is vastly different than the attitude I hear at the arena from various circles. That's a fact.

I don't get why it's so hard to believe that attitudes at the rink are so much different on here. Then again...maybe I do...
I don’t think it is that negative towards the future. I think the one thing we all agree on is the future should be bright with the young core of players we have.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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I don’t think it is that negative towards the future. I think the one thing we all agree on is the future should be bright with the young core of players we have.

There isn't anything precluding people from being positive about the future but also be disappointed with how they have played this year. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 

OHLTG

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:skeptic::skeptic:

How many times have people been iffy about our prospects because they're not rated that high?

How many times have people gotten frustrated when looking at the next two seasons?

How many times have people wondered if certain players were going to be ok down the road because of current production?

I'm trying not to laugh at the idea that this place is optimistic about the future, but it's tough.
 

aresknights

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:skeptic::skeptic:

How many times have people been iffy about our prospects because they're not rated that high?

How many times have people gotten frustrated when looking at the next two seasons?

How many times have people wondered if certain players were going to be ok down the road because of current production?

I'm trying not to laugh at the idea that this place is optimistic about the future, but it's tough.

Don't laugh if you choose...... But the optimism/defense of all things Spits related that you and another have, year after year, over the last 8 years has proven unfounded based on results vs peers in the OHL......Every year its "moving forward" "great young core, love the staff- Hockey Canada approved coach n on and an on" at some point hope wears thin and ya gotta prove it on ice with results.
You have defended/supported Spits in spite of lack of results (no PO wins since??????) regardless of results. And good on you for being dedicated, honestly.
And it/you doesn't enter denial status unlike another poster, but the team hasn't been competitive in its own league for 8 years! That's a long stretch.
But yes a free entry W in Memorial Cup helps some fans cover the shortcomings over almost a decade. I get it. And good on them for getting over in that tourney.

I honestly would like Windsor to be a revelant player in the OHL again. Makes it more fun as a London STH.
 
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OHLTG

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I get being cautious but the current crop of youngsters (ie. D'Amico, Foudy, Cuylle, etc.) have all surpassed the progress of the ones from the last rebuild. That's undeniable. There's a legit reason to be very optimistic about how the next few seasons should go.

I'd also argue the "hasn't been competitive" part - five seasons of .500+ hockey, including back-to-back 40-win seasons, since 2011. The two times they had 4o-win seasons... they were beaten by a darn good Rangers team in the first round (who had more points) and they took the Knights to game seven. I get the frustration but we act like this team doesn't do much and that's simply not true.

Now, to avoid getting into THAT debate again (which I don't want to do, but answered out of respect), I go back to the original point. It's hard to believe this board is optimistic about the future given what we've read on here. Heck, I posted a thing about Cuylle/Foudy being lookd at by the NHL and you'd think it takes off as a topic. Nope. Not even a bit. I get the "it excited but hopefully they don't make the same mistakes" argument, I really do. It just feels like it's "yeah, they're good but... this, this, this, and this mean I'm not sold." I don't get it.
 
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windsor7

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I get being cautious but the current crop of youngsters (ie. D'Amico, Foudy, Cuylle, etc.) have all surpassed the progress of the ones from the last rebuild. That's undeniable. There's a legit reason to be very optimistic about how the next few seasons should go.

I'd also argue the "hasn't been competitive" part - five seasons of .500+ hockey, including back-to-back 40-win seasons, since 2011. The two times they had 4o-win seasons... they were beaten by a darn good Rangers team in the first round (who had more points) and they took the Knights to game seven. I get the frustration but we act like this team doesn't do much and that's simply not true.

Now, to avoid getting into THAT debate again (which I don't want to do, but answered out of respect), I go back to the original point. It's hard to believe this board is optimistic about the future given what we've read on here. Heck, I posted a thing about Cuylle/Foudy being lookd at by the NHL and you'd think it takes off as a topic. Nope. Not even a bit. I get the "it excited but hopefully they don't make the same mistakes" argument, I really do. It just feels like it's "yeah, they're good but... this, this, this, and this mean I'm not sold." I don't get it.

Sure they had 40 win seasons.
U right.
However no results in playoffs last 8 seasons. Results matter. Fans dont see results. Close means nothing. Doesnt get u in next round. The other teams doesn't feel sorry for spits when they knocked them out of 1st round when the spits actually made the playoffs. Participation awards.
Hopefully the results happen soon. If not we will just talk about our favorite word---- rebuild.
 

OHL 17

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Nov 8, 2018
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Let's take it another step. The Spits need to start winning on a consistent basis, or there will not be any STH except the diehards. It will be back to the Old Barn days of 2200 fans.

The excitement of moving to a new rink, having WR's fabulous first 2 drafts, winning Memorial Cups, players like Hall Ellis, Henrique, ect., and the original great coaching staff, helped fill the WFCU every game. This all needs to return quickly!
Foudy and Cuylle could be the beginning of great players to watch, now put the other parts in place!!!!!!!!!!
 

FireBall959

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Apr 11, 2015
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OHLTG, I love how you refer to Foudy and Cuylle as being the core for the future and totally dismiss the players acquired to start the rebuild. Foudy was suppose to be an addition to the core, Cuylle was a big acquisition to a supposed already core. You fail to acknowledge that WR completely missed on the moves made prior. Ladd might be the only player who develops into a top ohler. Now that you want to build around a new core I see too many question marks atm. Can Foudy, Cuylle challenge for a title in just 2 years, as 18yr olds. Tall order to ask
Most like 3 years from now which means most of our players won't be here, not to mention it doesn't fit the window for our goalie either. Sure in 2 years WR can try to trade for pieces to compete by trading youngsters and picks...... wait we've been down that road before leading to a one and done time for major rebuild again. I'm optimistic I'll get to watch some really good players but still too many questions to answer for me.
You ever think the negativity on the board is somehow to compensate for the overly positive attitude of some. You can say all you want how great things are going but the proof is in the product on the ice.
 

member 71782

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I get being cautious but the current crop of youngsters (ie. D'Amico, Foudy, Cuylle, etc.) have all surpassed the progress of the ones from the last rebuild. That's undeniable. There's a legit reason to be very optimistic about how the next few seasons should go.

I'd also argue the "hasn't been competitive" part - five seasons of .500+ hockey, including back-to-back 40-win seasons, since 2011. The two times they had 4o-win seasons... they were beaten by a darn good Rangers team in the first round (who had more points) and they took the Knights to game seven. I get the frustration but we act like this team doesn't do much and that's simply not true.

Now, to avoid getting into THAT debate again (which I don't want to do, but answered out of respect), I go back to the original point. It's hard to believe this board is optimistic about the future given what we've read on here. Heck, I posted a thing about Cuylle/Foudy being lookd at by the NHL and you'd think it takes off as a topic. Nope. Not even a bit. I get the "it excited but hopefully they don't make the same mistakes" argument, I really do. It just feels like it's "yeah, they're good but... this, this, this, and this mean I'm not sold." I don't get it.

First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Second, concerns over the current state of the franchise and guarded optimism for the future are thoughts/opinions that can be held by the same person without being contradictory. There are obvious issues with how things are currently being run/managed/handled even though they have some young talent that can be the basis for a bright future. If the issues aren't resolved that are creating the current opinions about this team then regardless of the talent of the youth the future does not necessarily include automatic success. How many other teams have had high level prospects yet never achieved much success above a .500 record, including past Windsor teams? Cuylle, Foudy, McDonald and D'Amico all look to be bright young talents. Douglas, Corcoran Angle, Ladd, Henault and Frasca look to be potential strong supporting members, that's great for the future. Right now three of those players have 20+ goals, Angle has 15 and may reach 20 this year but when looking to the future how many of those players will be here beyond next year's deadline?

Angle will likely be back for an OA year in two years so he can be considered part of the future. Corcoran and Douglas, IMO are doubtful for two reasons. First they likely won't return for an OA year as both are drafted and Douglas in particular needs to face bigger, more skilled players to further his development and second if they are not likely to be back and Windsor is in need of assets then they should definitely be moved since they would bring the biggest returns outside of the 01s and 02s.

So yes, Windsor has some very talented kids and some others who should be significant, above average role players but looking at this line up and who should be here in two years raises some serious concerns. There are only eight players from the current roster who should be here IMO, leaving Piiroinen out of the discussion for now since the jury is out on him. That's ten bodies that need to be acquired over the coming two seasons, excluding goaltenders and extras for depth to be a very good, competitive team. The youth provides the optimism while the lack of numbers provides concern.

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly. More then ten years ago he was building a track record but the last ten years that track record of success has been far out weighed by less then stellar results. That is cause for concern.

The coaching has been beyond questionable this year and to a certain extent last year as well. Last year Letowski, even when making some questionable decisions got a pass because they were selling off but this year when there's been a clear mandate to keep developing the youth he has prioritized vets over youth all year long. Foudy and Cuylle have been the exception for obvious reasons but even those two at times have taken a back seat to players in various situations that should not have been happening. That is another major concern.

The players themselves, the leadership of many vets has been beyond lacking. Keeping a few key players around to provide guidance and leadership for the young kids is great, in theory but the vets of this group have failed to live up to this for the most part so now you have a bunch of kids who either have to step up on their own or will continue to follow the same aimless path that has been set out before them. That is a major cause for concern.

So yes, the talent of some of the kids provide a bright spot and cause to be optimistic but the track record of the last decade, the lack of direction on and off the ice combined with the lack of assets going forward create a lot of reasons to be concerned about the future as well. Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future. When a team fails to address the issues then it becomes justified to question both the present and the future and that will normally come off as negative to some since it becomes as repetitive as the issues surrounding the team.

This year we saw individual improvements from a number of players, top flight rookies come in and yet this team as a whole has regressed;. People can throw out DiPietro being moved this year as the reason all they like but that's a crutch when you consider how many pieces were moved last year combined with how many pieces were returned and added to this year. Regressing after what they did last year is a sign that there are major issues. They should not have been considered a top four team this year and yes, that's Rychel trying to sell the product but going backwards when there were at least three teams in their conference that were going to be taking a step back, like Windsor did last year and two other teams that were still a step behind Windsor should be considered unacceptable. That is the biggest cause for concern for the future.

I'm optimistic that things will be better next year as well as going beyond but next year there are a lot of pieces who should not be returning for various reasons, more that should be moved come the deadline but the issue that creates is Rychel needs to fill those spots with limited assets. Rychel probably needs at least five forwards, three D and at least one goaltender next season. That's a lot of bodies to add over an off season and if everyone who should be moved is moved that doesn't address depth which as we are seeing now and have in the past as well can be a major problem. That's another major cause of concern.

Potentially bright future? Yes. Will the way things have gone the last ten years bring it to fruition? No. Rychel needs to have a year on par with the 07/08 to 10/11 seasons and that's going to take a lot for that to happen. with limited resources to accomplish it. I see more of 2011/12 to 2016/17 in this rebuild then I see of the season leading up to 2010/11. Hopefully Rychel proves me and others wrong but as of right now the only optimism is surrounding the young players and not the way things have been handled.
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Second, concerns over the current state of the franchise and guarded optimism for the future are thoughts/opinions that can be held by the same person without being contradictory. There are obvious issues with how things are currently being run/managed/handled even though they have some young talent that can be the basis for a bright future. If the issues aren't resolved that are creating the current opinions about this team then regardless of the talent of the youth the future does not necessarily include automatic success. How many other teams have had high level prospects yet never achieved much success above a .500 record, including past Windsor teams? Cuylle, Foudy, McDonald and D'Amico all look to be bright young talents. Douglas, Corcoran Angle, Ladd, Henault and Frasca look to be potential strong supporting members, that's great for the future. Right now three of those players have 20+ goals, Angle has 15 and may reach 20 this year but when looking to the future how many of those players will be here beyond next year's deadline?

Angle will likely be back for an OA year in two years so he can be considered part of the future. Corcoran and Douglas, IMO are doubtful for two reasons. First they likely won't return for an OA year as both are drafted and Douglas in particular needs to face bigger, more skilled players to further his development and second if they are not likely to be back and Windsor is in need of assets then they should definitely be moved since they would bring the biggest returns outside of the 01s and 02s.

So yes, Windsor has some very talented kids and some others who should be significant, above average role players but looking at this line up and who should be here in two years raises some serious concerns. There are only eight players from the current roster who should be here IMO, leaving Piiroinen out of the discussion for now since the jury is out on him. That's ten bodies that need to be acquired over the coming two seasons, excluding goaltenders and extras for depth to be a very good, competitive team. The youth provides the optimism while the lack of numbers provides concern.

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly. More then ten years ago he was building a track record but the last ten years that track record of success has been far out weighed by less then stellar results. That is cause for concern.

The coaching has been beyond questionable this year and to a certain extent last year as well. Last year Letowski, even when making some questionable decisions got a pass because they were selling off but this year when there's been a clear mandate to keep developing the youth he has prioritized vets over youth all year long. Foudy and Cuylle have been the exception for obvious reasons but even those two at times have taken a back seat to players in various situations that should not have been happening. That is another major concern.

The players themselves, the leadership of many vets has been beyond lacking. Keeping a few key players around to provide guidance and leadership for the young kids is great, in theory but the vets of this group have failed to live up to this for the most part so now you have a bunch of kids who either have to step up on their own or will continue to follow the same aimless path that has been set out before them. That is a major cause for concern.

So yes, the talent of some of the kids provide a bright spot and cause to be optimistic but the track record of the last decade, the lack of direction on and off the ice combined with the lack of assets going forward create a lot of reasons to be concerned about the future as well. Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future. When a team fails to address the issues then it becomes justified to question both the present and the future and that will normally come off as negative to some since it becomes as repetitive as the issues surrounding the team.

This year we saw individual improvements from a number of players, top flight rookies come in and yet this team as a whole has regressed;. People can throw out DiPietro being moved this year as the reason all they like but that's a crutch when you consider how many pieces were moved last year combined with how many pieces were returned and added to this year. Regressing after what they did last year is a sign that there are major issues. They should not have been considered a top four team this year and yes, that's Rychel trying to sell the product but going backwards when there were at least three teams in their conference that were going to be taking a step back, like Windsor did last year and two other teams that were still a step behind Windsor should be considered unacceptable. That is the biggest cause for concern for the future.

I'm optimistic that things will be better next year as well as going beyond but next year there are a lot of pieces who should not be returning for various reasons, more that should be moved come the deadline but the issue that creates is Rychel needs to fill those spots with limited assets. Rychel probably needs at least five forwards, three D and at least one goaltender next season. That's a lot of bodies to add over an off season and if everyone who should be moved is moved that doesn't address depth which as we are seeing now and have in the past as well can be a major problem. That's another major cause of concern.

Potentially bright future? Yes. Will the way things have gone the last ten years bring it to fruition? No. Rychel needs to have a year on par with the 07/08 to 10/11 seasons and that's going to take a lot for that to happen. with limited resources to accomplish it. I see more of 2011/12 to 2016/17 in this rebuild then I see of the season leading up to 2010/11. Hopefully Rychel proves me and others wrong but as of right now the only optimism is surrounding the young players and not the way things have been handled.

Excellent post.
Well done
 
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RayzorIsDull

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First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Second, concerns over the current state of the franchise and guarded optimism for the future are thoughts/opinions that can be held by the same person without being contradictory. There are obvious issues with how things are currently being run/managed/handled even though they have some young talent that can be the basis for a bright future. If the issues aren't resolved that are creating the current opinions about this team then regardless of the talent of the youth the future does not necessarily include automatic success. How many other teams have had high level prospects yet never achieved much success above a .500 record, including past Windsor teams? Cuylle, Foudy, McDonald and D'Amico all look to be bright young talents. Douglas, Corcoran Angle, Ladd, Henault and Frasca look to be potential strong supporting members, that's great for the future. Right now three of those players have 20+ goals, Angle has 15 and may reach 20 this year but when looking to the future how many of those players will be here beyond next year's deadline?

Angle will likely be back for an OA year in two years so he can be considered part of the future. Corcoran and Douglas, IMO are doubtful for two reasons. First they likely won't return for an OA year as both are drafted and Douglas in particular needs to face bigger, more skilled players to further his development and second if they are not likely to be back and Windsor is in need of assets then they should definitely be moved since they would bring the biggest returns outside of the 01s and 02s.

So yes, Windsor has some very talented kids and some others who should be significant, above average role players but looking at this line up and who should be here in two years raises some serious concerns. There are only eight players from the current roster who should be here IMO, leaving Piiroinen out of the discussion for now since the jury is out on him. That's ten bodies that need to be acquired over the coming two seasons, excluding goaltenders and extras for depth to be a very good, competitive team. The youth provides the optimism while the lack of numbers provides concern.

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly. More then ten years ago he was building a track record but the last ten years that track record of success has been far out weighed by less then stellar results. That is cause for concern.

The coaching has been beyond questionable this year and to a certain extent last year as well. Last year Letowski, even when making some questionable decisions got a pass because they were selling off but this year when there's been a clear mandate to keep developing the youth he has prioritized vets over youth all year long. Foudy and Cuylle have been the exception for obvious reasons but even those two at times have taken a back seat to players in various situations that should not have been happening. That is another major concern.

The players themselves, the leadership of many vets has been beyond lacking. Keeping a few key players around to provide guidance and leadership for the young kids is great, in theory but the vets of this group have failed to live up to this for the most part so now you have a bunch of kids who either have to step up on their own or will continue to follow the same aimless path that has been set out before them. That is a major cause for concern.

So yes, the talent of some of the kids provide a bright spot and cause to be optimistic but the track record of the last decade, the lack of direction on and off the ice combined with the lack of assets going forward create a lot of reasons to be concerned about the future as well. Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future. When a team fails to address the issues then it becomes justified to question both the present and the future and that will normally come off as negative to some since it becomes as repetitive as the issues surrounding the team.

This year we saw individual improvements from a number of players, top flight rookies come in and yet this team as a whole has regressed;. People can throw out DiPietro being moved this year as the reason all they like but that's a crutch when you consider how many pieces were moved last year combined with how many pieces were returned and added to this year. Regressing after what they did last year is a sign that there are major issues. They should not have been considered a top four team this year and yes, that's Rychel trying to sell the product but going backwards when there were at least three teams in their conference that were going to be taking a step back, like Windsor did last year and two other teams that were still a step behind Windsor should be considered unacceptable. That is the biggest cause for concern for the future.

I'm optimistic that things will be better next year as well as going beyond but next year there are a lot of pieces who should not be returning for various reasons, more that should be moved come the deadline but the issue that creates is Rychel needs to fill those spots with limited assets. Rychel probably needs at least five forwards, three D and at least one goaltender next season. That's a lot of bodies to add over an off season and if everyone who should be moved is moved that doesn't address depth which as we are seeing now and have in the past as well can be a major problem. That's another major cause of concern.

Potentially bright future? Yes. Will the way things have gone the last ten years bring it to fruition? No. Rychel needs to have a year on par with the 07/08 to 10/11 seasons and that's going to take a lot for that to happen. with limited resources to accomplish it. I see more of 2011/12 to 2016/17 in this rebuild then I see of the season leading up to 2010/11. Hopefully Rychel proves me and others wrong but as of right now the only optimism is surrounding the young players and not the way things have been handled.

This is a terrific post. We have to be realistic and think big picture. You can still have very good young players and not have a lot of success. I think Sarnia would probably be one of the poster children for that. Over the past 6-7 seasons they have had Galchenyuk/Yakupov/DeAngelo/Chychrun/Goldobin/Kyrou/Zacha/Konecny etc.. Yet just this past year they were able to break through and win a playoff round.

We also have to be aware that from the end of the 2011 season to this current point the organization has a .518%. That's even including the high watermark seasons of 16 and 17 with an average winning % of .650%.

Agreed that we are still likely talking 8-10 players and this is where it gets murky. There's a great chance those 8-10 players currently aren't even in the organization. You would have to be naive to believe that you can just snap your fingers and find that crop of players talented enough, to develop with the current crop, for the coaching staff to get the most out of those players.

As you said earlier coaching has been questionable as well so beyond player acquisitions what's going to happen with the coaches. As with you I think they will be fairly improved next year. Of course what improved and how they show vis-a-vis compared to the other teams in the western conference is the million dollar question.

Fireball had a great point that regardless of how you want to spin the organization going into this year had high hopes for Morgan/MacDougall/Starikov. You can still make the case they really haven't really replaced them. You might have replaced their perceived production but you haven't replaced their spot on the roster as of this point.

Once again this goes into the idea not every prospect improves and hits how you want. What happens if Ladd or MacDonald struggle to return from injury?? What happens if Piroinen never fulfills the promise of a big time #1 goalie? This is including guys like Frasca improving and the Spits hitting on their 1st round pick in the midget and import draft. I think overall if the idea is to being a championship team in 2 years almost everything has to go right and there is very little room for error. In reality though it's extremely difficult to work under the premise that an organization has to be near perfect in order to reach their goals. That's difficult for management/coaches/players/fans.
 

OHLTG

Registered User
Nov 18, 2008
16,565
8,581
behind lens, Ontario
Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...

OHLTG, I love how you refer to Foudy and Cuylle as being the core for the future and totally dismiss the players acquired to start the rebuild.

Was I supposed to name every single player?

You fail to acknowledge that WR completely missed on the moves made prior.

When the discussion has turned to atoms, there's probably not point. Heck, this discussion is getting to that point, too.

You ever think the negativity on the board is somehow to compensate for the overly positive attitude of some. You can say all you want how great things are going but the proof is in the product on the ice.

So, because people are happy about what the future brings, we NEED people to complain in order to balance it out?

Yes, the proof is on the ice - it's a rebuild. They're going to struggle. Things are going well in terms of looking at the future. They're getting praise from NHL (multiple players). I mean, at some point, we have to see it for what it is.

First, some of the current crop of youngsters have surpassed expectations, others have not including some that are no longer here.

Which happens. Almost every team has players that succeed in a rebuild while others fail.

We can all say but Rychel will get those players, fine but for most the last ten or so years he hasn't. He has had far more misses then successes in the drafts as well as off season acquisitions and they have been very costly.

...and the last few drafts? If you get 5-6 players per draft that do well in the OHL, you're doing pretty good. I'd argue he's at that right now.

Critiquing a bad game, bad stretch of games or a bad season is not being negative, it's stating the obvious but it does not preclude someone from being optimistic about the future.

Yet, here we are. There's a reason this topic is even coming up, no?

Once again this goes into the idea not every prospect improves and hits how you want.

Just like some prospects turn out better than we expected? I doubt anyone really expected D'Amico to score 20 at this point. When there's shuffles to the left, there's also shuffles to the right.

We can sit here and go "What if these all go wrong?", but I don't get the point of that. We're really thinking worst-case scenario. Doesn't seem to make sense to me. What if all these things go right? What if half of them go right?
 
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FireBall959

Registered User
Apr 11, 2015
469
458
If we got 5-6 players I guess you could say that's good, haven't in the last 3 so don't know where you got that number from.
Need to complain? Nope but express that while you are all giggly over having a better team the next 2 or so years, I thought the plan was to build a contender. Will we be better, absolutely, will will be a championship contender, hopefully but I think we are further away than we had hoped at the start of the year.
Reason I keep bringing up the the 17yr olds is that last year all the positive pair could do is talk about how many points outr 16 yr olds had compared to London's and how awesome we were going to be and now it's like that never happened.
 

hockeylegend11

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
15,811
3,839
Now that I have a chance to respond to the blow-up...



Was I supposed to name every single player?



When the discussion has turned to atoms, there's probably not point. Heck, this discussion is getting to that point, too.



So, because people are happy about what the future brings, we NEED people to complain in order to balance it out?

Yes, the proof is on the ice - it's a rebuild. They're going to struggle. Things are going well in terms of looking at the future. They're getting praise from NHL (multiple players). I mean, at some point, we have to see it for what it is.



Which happens. Almost every team has players that succeed in a rebuild while others fail.



...and the last few drafts? If you get 5-6 players per draft that do well in the OHL, you're doing pretty good. I'd argue he's at that right now.



Yet, here we are. There's a reason this topic is even coming up, no?



Just like some prospects turn out better than we expected? I doubt anyone really expected D'Amico to score 20 at this point. When there's shuffles to the left, there's also shuffles to the right.

We can sit here and go "What if these all go wrong?", but I don't get the point of that. We're really thinking worst-case scenario. Doesn't seem to make sense to me. What if all these things go right? What if half of them go right?

This is an excellent post, fully agree.
 
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