Will the MLS become one of the biggest leagues in the world in our lifetime?

[Deleted member 93465]

TV Report: EPL outdraws NHL in 2015-16



This is not MLS, but it is still interesting to see that a foreign soccer league is able to get more viewers at odd hours than NHL games. Considering the start times for most EPL games, these numbers are quiet impressive. If MLS can manage to convert some of these soccer fans into MLS fans, the league could really take off. But that is easier said than done.

And if they could convert some Ligamx fans, which gets much higher ratings than EPL, we could be on to something.

 

[jerrytsao]

And if they could convert some Ligamx fans, which gets much higher ratings than EPL, we could be on to something.

Theoretically EPL would easily double or triple that number if played at the same timezone as MLS & Liga MX, and Liga MX could 1.5x their current number in states since Spanish TV networks only have about 1/2 penetration rate of English counterparts. Put all three at primetime on NBCSN & NBC, I think EPL will win easily.

Regarding MLS, I wouldn't say it won't challenge one of the Big Four, but the Big Four is BIG partially because they are the best leagues in their own sports, the global soccer system would prevent MLS becoming of the biggest leagues in the world because of talents and geography.

 

[Voight]

TV Report: EPL outdraws NHL in 2015-16



This is not MLS, but it is still interesting to see that a foreign soccer league is able to get more viewers at odd hours than NHL games. Considering the start times for most EPL games, these numbers are quiet impressive. If MLS can manage to convert some of these soccer fans into MLS fans, the league could really take off. But that is easier said than done.

I'm not all surprised. Generally, most immigrants will watch the PK (and other soccer leagues) because its usually the sport they grew up watching and playing. This stems back to all the ones that came over post-WW2 that are still alive and watching soccer. It trickles down generations to, I know people who watch the EPL more than the NHL despite being born and raised in NA

They absolutely were (my daughter was one of them) but when stars from Europe come over to MLS (or NASL) they get people interested in the local brand too if they weren't already. Look at Drogba in Montreal, probably only behind Price and Subban in popularity. As long as the league is smart in bringing over the stars (i.e. not like NASL v1.0) they can leverage it over time to get people interested in the local game.

We're talking long term here (why the question mentioned 'lifetime'). I've been into soccer my whole life and it's incredible how much it has grown since the 80's.

Thing is.... they are no longer stars in Europe and thats why they come here. Sure people get excited when they can see a Drogba or Kaka play in their own city but those guys are here because the pay is much better. Look at Giovinco on TFC. First season here he sets all sorts of records and wins MVP/becomes the leagues best player.

 

[Butch 19]

Soccer is boring but America's national sport is not? If North Americans can sit through 3 to 4 hr baseball games.

baseball or football? I thought that many already claim that football has passed baseball as America's pastime...?

While I can't follow baseball as much as years ago, it is much more exciting to watch than soccer.

But I'm not lost on the fact that I did not grow up with soccer - there was no AYSO where I grew up. My friends and I played whatever sport was in season, we would do baseball in the spring/summer, then football started in the fall, and then basketball and hockey throughout the winter. rinse, cycle, repeat.

A sub 2 hr soccer match has to be viewed as nonstop action

... of men jogging, making more passes toward their own goal than the goal they're supposed to score into; shoot the ball wide? - your offensive rush is over; and only 1 person out of 90,000 knows exactly when the game ends (does the soccer world not know that HUGE digital clocks and scoreboards exist?) and when there's a substitution, the crowd is informed by a board (hey! - the digital world) the size of a cafeteria tray?

Sorry, I need more entertainment (and logic) than that for 2 hours of my time.

 

[theaub]

I'd reckon the percentage of passes towards a team's own goal is higher in hockey than soccer.

 

[BattleBorn]

I will say this for soccer. I really like knowing that if I'm sitting down to watch a soccer game or if I'm attending a game that I know I'll be done at a certain time.

There's not a whole lot of fluctuation the duration of your average soccer game, it starts, it happens, there's a few minutes of added time, you're done. It's pretty nice.

 

[Deleted member 93465]

Theoretically EPL would easily double or triple that number if played at the same timezone as MLS & Liga MX, and Liga MX could 1.5x their current number in states since Spanish TV networks only have about 1/2 penetration rate of English counterparts. Put all three at primetime on NBCSN & NBC, I think EPL will win easily.

Regarding MLS, I wouldn't say it won't challenge one of the Big Four, but the Big Four is BIG partially because they are the best leagues in their own sports, the global soccer system would prevent MLS becoming of the biggest leagues in the world because of talents and geography.

Yeah, I guess, in theory. But with entrenched timezones, the reality is that MLS and LigaMX should, in theory, be able to surpass (in the case of MLS), and continue to beat (in the case of LigaMX) the EPL.

The argument that many pro-MLS people (myself included) make is that, at some point in time, MLS will be able to challenge for global talent in soccer. There is a case to be made for it. But for every step forward the MLS takes, the biggest clubs in the world take two steps forward. The problem of course is that there are a handful of teams that have become huge as the digital/globalization age has really taken off.... Manchester United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Juventus, PSG, Manchester City, AC Milan, and so on.

Their tentacles have spread all across the world, and, unlike the business world, it is very hard to displace popular clubs once they become popular. And money follows popularity.

 

[Hoek]

Here are ways for a Sports League to increase revenue:

I) Ticket/Gate Revenue (includes ticket price, concessions, parking, etc.)
II) Advertising Revenue (including TV deal, sponsorhips, at game advertising, etc.)
III) Lowering overhead/player costs

The problem is that the MLS as it is right now has essentially capped at I and II because of the quality of the product being offered. They can't increase # of games, they can't drastically raise ticket prices without killing the casual market outside of the "die hard" markets, I'm guessing food/concessions are already stupidly priced adequately enough. Same for advertising revenue.

The problem is, I and II are capped until MLS can drastically increase the quality of their product. If they can start fielding a high quality League, they can increase ticket prices, they can increase advertising across the board. But they can't do that without massively raising player costs.

And just looking at the numbers...the NHL has a revenue of 4 billion...the MLS 400 million. To surpass the NHL, the MLS would have to increase their revenue ten fold, and I see no way they can do this, barring a complete simultaneous collapse of the Premier League, La Liga and the German Elite League.

To answer the OP, no. The MLS will probably not become one of the largest leagues in the world.

Going back to this post, the point about revenue is quite salient. Just going off Forbes' guesses in 2015, the highest revenue team in MLS is the Seattle Sounders at $50 million. The lowest revenue team in the NHL is the Florida Panthers at $93 million. That's a pretty big gap to close just between the best and poorest performers. Forbes does value the Sounders higher than the Panthers though at $245 million vs. $186 million (Houston and Portland are also $200+ million), though maybe a playoff run for the latter has shifted things a bit.

Sources:

http://www.americansocceranalysis.com/home/2015/8/19/forbes-rankings-in-a

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/

 

[Zegras Zebra]

Yeah, I guess, in theory. But with entrenched timezones, the reality is that MLS and LigaMX should, in theory, be able to surpass (in the case of MLS), and continue to beat (in the case of LigaMX) the EPL.

The argument that many pro-MLS people (myself included) make is that, at some point in time, MLS will be able to challenge for global talent in soccer. There is a case to be made for it. But for every step forward the MLS takes, the biggest clubs in the world take two steps forward. The problem of course is that there are a handful of teams that have become huge as the digital/globalization age has really taken off.... Manchester United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Juventus, PSG, Manchester City, AC Milan, and so on.

Their tentacles have spread all across the world, and, unlike the business world, it is very hard to displace popular clubs once they become popular. And money follows popularity.

So what is the plan for the MLS to keep up with the European powers for global talent? At the current time there is very little most MLS clubs can do because of the low salary cap and designated player rule. Without drastically overpaying for star players there is not much the clubs can do to keep up with these massive billion dollar clubs. Most MLS clubs can't afford this, and the league wants everyone to be competitive like all other North American sports leagues. Without allowing for a few super teams, the MLS can't have any one franchise on the same level as a UEFA Champions League level club. As you said they take two steps forward for everyone of MLS, so how will the MLS catch up to the European powers, and in what timeframe will this happen in. What is the case to be made that MLS clubs can compete for global talent?

 

[cutchemist42]

Personally, i just dont get the appeal of MLS when a better structure for football exists in Europe if I were a soccer fan. Its just a more interesting structure with a better and more authentic fandom and branding. Even if MLS had every single great player at their peak, all it is doing is just competing against NA teams essentially. The UEFA structure is just more fun.

I just think sometimes the extremely bullish MLS guys on the internet underestimate the other teams/leagues' abilities worldwide to grow as well. There's just a limited market for MLS to truly carve into.

 

[Deleted member 93465]

So what is the plan for the MLS to keep up with the European powers for global talent? At the current time there is very little most MLS clubs can do because of the low salary cap and designated player rule. Without drastically overpaying for star players there is not much the clubs can do to keep up with these massive billion dollar clubs. Most MLS clubs can't afford this, and the league wants everyone to be competitive like all other North American sports leagues. Without allowing for a few super teams, the MLS can't have any one franchise on the same level as a UEFA Champions League level club. As you said they take two steps forward for everyone of MLS, so how will the MLS catch up to the European powers, and in what timeframe will this happen in. What is the case to be made that MLS clubs can compete for global talent?

The designated player rule is one of the ways they are trying to bridge the gap, which is why it's been expanded. Technically speaking, you can create superclubs in MLS. Exhausting your allocated DPs, you could easily maintain a team that is consistently competitive (see LA Galaxy). Three big signings can take you far. But, you're right, not superclubs on the level of European teams.

The case in favor of MLS is that, over time, its broadcast rights will keep edging higher, to the point where they eventually match the major European leagues (maybe minus the EPL). The timeframe for that? Several decades, I suspect. That's not guaranteed, but that's the only way they'll match the major Euro leagues.

But I think the future of soccer is pretty clear cut. Sure, things can change, but it seems to me that, eventually, the slow process of unifying Europe's club will reach an end point.

Already, European soccer clubs have conquered Europe, Africa, Asia, and to a lesser extent South America (which resists only on the basis that it has a strong soccer tradition of its own). North America is in some ways the last frontier. A pan-European league featuring the teams I mentioned above, plus another 10 or so other major Euro teams, would be virtually unstoppable.

I also suspect this league would be played overseas regularly, making even timezone differences an irrelevance. Imagine a weekend like this:

Bayern Munich vs PSG in New York.
Manchester United vs Barcelona in LA.
Chelsea vs Real Madrid in Beijing.
Arsenal vs Juventus in London.
AC Milan vs Liverpool in Johannesburg.

Woe betide other leagues when this begins.

 

[Deleted member 93465]

Personally, i just dont get the appeal of MLS when a better structure for football exists in Europe if I were a soccer fan. Its just a more interesting structure with a better and more authentic fandom and branding. Even if MLS had every single great player at their peak, all it is doing is just competing against NA teams essentially. The UEFA structure is just more fun.

I just think sometimes the extremely bullish MLS guys on the internet underestimate the other teams/leagues' abilities worldwide to grow as well. There's just a limited market for MLS to truly carve into.

No one underestimates it. But there is very good reason to believe that, if everything stays as is (without a European league...and no, not the Champions League), MLS can definitely become one of the major soccer leagues in the world. Maybe not the biggest, but one of certainly.

 

[KingLB]

Personally, i just dont get the appeal of MLS when a better structure for football exists in Europe if I were a soccer fan. Its just a more interesting structure with a better and more authentic fandom and branding. Even if MLS had every single great player at their peak, all it is doing is just competing against NA teams essentially. The UEFA structure is just more fun.

I just think sometimes the extremely bullish MLS guys on the internet underestimate the other teams/leagues' abilities worldwide to grow as well. There's just a limited market for MLS to truly carve into.

Except the "structure" is a mirage, and in reality its a 6-8 team league made to look like a 50+ team league. (UEFA and Champions league that is)

Even within each country, each league is more like Game of Thrones where only the historically powerful teams have all the real power. Rather than a competitive league where everyone has anything but a microcosm of a chance. (5000-1 odds Leicester not withstanding)

 

[PCSPounder]

If you ask an American soccer fan about player development, and they're not already in one of two camps... that'll be me and that is way too long to write. Trying a different tack.

Ask a soccer fan about development... learn first touch. Passing to players in motion while in motion. Defending. Learning to think the game. That is if they actually know the sport, and not every soccer fan gets this.

Ask an American football fan: it means hit the weight room and drink your supplements.

Ask a soccer owner? They dream about getting both fans in the stadium, and given their age, are more likely to be familiar with the American football trainers. That means we end up with the Jozy Altidore hype train.

Those of you who agree with the American football fans... why is Mexico the established power in CONCACAF and not Jamaica?

So when even somewhere here mentions that pro/rel will make owners have to develop better players, I warn you that this may not mean to people with more money what it does to you.

Which leads to the next part: OK, NHL is a $4 billion business. Last year, authorities cited the American youth soccer scene as a $5 billion business. On the one hand, can MLS muscle in on that and keep making that scratch? Some teams do that better than others, but definitely not without controversy. On the other hand, guess who's the real power in the sport in NA when acting collectively. Guess how they solve problems right now... winning with the kid who's the biggest at the time. Again, that's how we get Jozy Altidore.

Getting to the next level requires a massive change in thinking. That's what Jurgen Klinsmann has wanted to do, but he's got two major problems: (1) he wanted to do that as national team coach, not just someone appointed to rejigger the system, and he's not that good on the bench, (2) I think he thought he'd dictate to the pro clubs and solve the problem, but MLS is only a function of the problem, and both the owners and the youth club monstrosity are resistant to change.

 

[Rocko604]

MLS needs to fix their reffing before they're going to be taken any more seriously.

I'm a soccer fan, but even with a hometown team, I really only follow MLS from the start of the season until the EPL starts up again. Then by the time Arsenal have pissed away their title chance, I'm eager for MLS to start up again. Rinse, repeat.

I don't know if they're going to be one of the biggest leagues in the world. I thought they would have been ahead of where they are now, IMO, but a lot can change in 10-15 years. Fear of concussions, cost of playing other sports (not that soccer is immune to either), it'll be interesting to see where soccer lands in the pecking order in North America in the next decade or two.

 

[DoyleG]

Except the "structure" is a mirage, and in reality its a 6-8 team league made to look like a 50+ team league. (UEFA and Champions league that is)

Even within each country, each league is more like Game of Thrones where only the historically powerful teams have all the real power. Rather than a competitive league where everyone has anything but a microcosm of a chance. (5000-1 odds Leicester not withstanding)

You do realize that there is more than just the big clubs, right?

 

[KevFu]

I apologize if someone said this already, because I only skimmed the first 200 posts, to the original question:

Competitively, absolutely not.
ECONOMICALLY, probably.

(Brief aside, Soccer is like an issue in politics: The haters are so blinded by their hatred of it, and the lovers can’t see clearly though their rose colored glasses; and every in the middle gets sick of hearing them fight).


Competitively, the the league would need massive changes/overhaul/growth/improvement to move from a soccer product that is terrible compared to other nations, to a product competitive with "second tier" of leagues in the world. And soccer fans know this. Is it doable? Yes it is. But the key components have to timed correctly: Moving to the global soccer calendar and allowing a payroll structure that enables teams to compete on the international market for players. And that's going to be an insanely slow process if done right. A quick jump will likely be "failure" unless there is a "total buy in from insanely rich people running MLS to go full speed ahead and spend their way through it."

They risk being bad soccer on at a bad time in America, during the MLB playoffs, NFL season, March Madness, NHL & NBA playoffs. Instead of "soccer that's on in the summer, opposite baseball, tennis and golf."



Economically, MLS has a far easier path to becoming one of the biggest leagues in the world in our lifetimes. This should come FIRST, then the switch the the international calendar and an attempt to move up the ladder in terms of competitive prowess.

The reason for that is also why the MLS always is going to LOOK far better off by these reports, articles and stats that soccer fans love to talk about and hates scoff at:

There’s 360 million people in our country spending money on things, and some of those things include soccer.

The MLS has 24 teams in closed system. The other leagues exist but are shut out.
There’s 92 of the so called “League Clubs” in the top four flights of English Football, in a country of 54 million people. The richest 20 do dominate but share more money with the other 72 and fans/customers are more divided.


Soccer lovers talk all the time about the growth of interest in the sport, and it’s true that grows constantly. But it’s an INSANELY SLOW LONG TERM process of “kids raised when soccer is on SportsCenter between NBA and MLB highlights” becoming SPENDERS/CONSUMERS in our economy and replacing “the elderly raised when soccer was Europeans, Latinos and (homophobic slur)s” as they die off.

If you ran stats for soccer fandom/hatred on this board, you’d probably see patterns emerge:
- American/Canadiens that picked it up because of youth soccer
- Non-American/Canadiens or A/Cs that grew up with it because of family/foreign trips/influences outside the US
- American/Canadiens that have always been disinterested by it and kinda hate hearing soccer lovers.
- American/Canadiens that picked it up in the 1990-1994 range (the US made the World Cup for the first time in 40 years in 1990 and hosted in 1994)
- American/Canadiens that picked it up in the 2002 to present (spikes every four years)

That last group is the future growth becoming consumers sparking the big rise in it.
And the eight year gap between 1994 and 2002 is because the 1998 World Cup was in Korea/Japan and games kicked off between 12 am and 7 am in North America.

I bring that up because THAT is the gap that will make the “18-54 target demo” of consumers not completely full of those who’ve accepted soccer if they make the move to early and making it really easy for Soccer TV games to be completely lost/ignored in the full OCT-MAY calendar of sports.

On the other hand, when the 18-54 target demo is totally full of people used to MLS/MLB in the summer, that's when TV revenues will be very large, and the league can achieve "biggest leagues in the world, economically speaking status" in our lifetimes.

And that's when it's time to make the switch from "The soccer league for American sports fans" to "America's league in World soccer" with the international calendar and player transfer market.


The 2002 soccer crowd (born after 1990) needs to be hitting 45 when they make move to the international schedule. That’s 2035 at the earliest.

Klinnsman will go nuts, but they need the economic strength of growing (not over-expanding) and having a slow, stable transition of salaries escalating in the closed system, summer season. A situation like the NHL in the 90s is GOING TO HAPPEN if salaries escalate. And they can survive that. They’ll probably lose some franchises. But the ones that survive it are going to be the ones that can handle making the switch to the international calendar and opening up the player acquisition to the totally free market of world professional soccer. And they'll be able to do so only with the revenue streams from staying in the summer as long as possible.

 

[theaub]

Personally, i just dont get the appeal of MLS when a better structure for football exists in Europe if I were a soccer fan. Its just a more interesting structure with a better and more authentic fandom and branding. Even if MLS had every single great player at their peak, all it is doing is just competing against NA teams essentially. The UEFA structure is just more fun.

I just think sometimes the extremely bullish MLS guys on the internet underestimate the other teams/leagues' abilities worldwide to grow as well. There's just a limited market for MLS to truly carve into.

I can't watch Newcastle (lol!) play every week, but I can certainly watch the TFC play. That's my attachment to MLS. The second there's a Canadian league with a GTA team I'll cheer for them though.

Of course, my standards for soccer are significantly different than the other sports here. When it comes to MLB/NHL/NBA etc, the best players in the world are in those leagues so I just want to see the team be successful and don't really care how they do it. When it comes to MLS, it is clearly not the best league in the world so while I appreciate the odd truly talented (see: Giovinco) player showing up, I'm moreso in it for the hopefulness that our three MLS sides can develop talented Canadians for the national team.

If you ask an American soccer fan about player development, and they're not already in one of two camps... that'll be me and that is way too long to write. Trying a different tack.

Ask a soccer fan about development... learn first touch. Passing to players in motion while in motion. Defending. Learning to think the game. That is if they actually know the sport, and not every soccer fan gets this.

Ask an American football fan: it means hit the weight room and drink your supplements.

Ask a soccer owner? They dream about getting both fans in the stadium, and given their age, are more likely to be familiar with the American football trainers. That means we end up with the Jozy Altidore hype train.

Those of you who agree with the American football fans... why is Mexico the established power in CONCACAF and not Jamaica?

So when even somewhere here mentions that pro/rel will make owners have to develop better players, I warn you that this may not mean to people with more money what it does to you.

Which leads to the next part: OK, NHL is a $4 billion business. Last year, authorities cited the American youth soccer scene as a $5 billion business. On the one hand, can MLS muscle in on that and keep making that scratch? Some teams do that better than others, but definitely not without controversy. On the other hand, guess who's the real power in the sport in NA when acting collectively. Guess how they solve problems right now... winning with the kid who's the biggest at the time. Again, that's how we get Jozy Altidore.

Getting to the next level requires a massive change in thinking. That's what Jurgen Klinsmann has wanted to do, but he's got two major problems: (1) he wanted to do that as national team coach, not just someone appointed to rejigger the system, and he's not that good on the bench, (2) I think he thought he'd dictate to the pro clubs and solve the problem, but MLS is only a function of the problem, and both the owners and the youth club monstrosity are resistant to change.

Pretty much everything here is accurate. The player development system for soccer is broken in both Canada/US because there aren't enough actual certified coaches that can actually notice true soccer skill and instead everyone falls back on the hockey/football mentality of being bigger/faster than everyone else. Then you just have a bunch of kids who are bigger than everyone and look good at youth tournaments but once you get to the senior level they get run off the pitch because they have no idea how to pass the ball. The CMNT hasn't had a player that could truly pass the ball since Martin Nash, who needless to say was apparently born with some decent passing genes.

From the owner side, the issue right now there is no true 'tradition' in MLS. Its not like anyone is going to get hyped if "MLS legend Brad Davis" gets traded to Colorado. But bring in some retread like old Zlatan and people are lining up out the door (note: I would pay to watch retread old Zlatan and give zero craps about Brad Davis so I'm no better). Its tough to have any sort of that tradition if the MLS remains a stepping stone league, which it almost certainly will. So unless you go back to the NASL days of abolishing the cap and dropping blank cheques on not only DP-level players but also mid-upper level Euro guys who can be just behind the core player in terms of skill and make $1-2M per year (think unlimited TAM), it will never happen.

(Also, please save us from Jozy Altidore that dude is straight trash)

Klinnsman will go nuts, but they need the economic strength of growing (not over-expanding) and having a slow, stable transition of salaries escalating in the closed system, summer season. A situation like the NHL in the 90s is GOING TO HAPPEN if salaries escalate. And they can survive that. They’ll probably lose some franchises. But the ones that survive it are going to be the ones that can handle making the switch to the international calendar and opening up the player acquisition to the totally free market of world professional soccer. And they'll be able to do so only with the revenue streams from staying in the summer as long as possible.

This is my entire issue with MLS.

At some point (probably in the late 2000's), MLS had the choice between going with 12-16 really strong, stable franchises and attempting to move from a cap system, or continuing to expand which would make the cap a necessity to protect some of the smaller markets. And obviously they chose the latter. And that was a terrible, stupid mistake that pretty much capped (no pun) the league's ability to grow.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Personally, i just dont get the appeal of MLS when a better structure for football exists in Europe if I were a soccer fan. Its just a more interesting structure with a better and more authentic fandom and branding. Even if MLS had every single great player at their peak, all it is doing is just competing against NA teams essentially. The UEFA structure is just more fun.

The biggest argument I have to this view is that I have a connection to where I live...I don't have any connections to most European places or clubs. I don't think I'm even related to anyone who has ever been to England, the only reason the EPL is on my radar is because it's the best league in the world with commentary being presented in the language I speak.

I have connections to Munich (my father's side of the family being Bavarian), but I don't speak German...that made following the Bundesliga effectively impossible until really this past year or two outside of seeing my cable bill jump to $200/month and learning German...and before 2007 or 2008 that wasn't even an option.

Don't get me wrong, I 'have' a EPL team that I follow, but I effectively chose them completely at random because they were a mid-table team that I'd never heard of when I played my first FIFA game in 2008 and were heated rivals with one of the teams I was predispositioned to hate (biggest ******* I ever met in college was a die-hard Arsenal fan).

It's hard to fake connections. My only connection to the Spanish league is that I loved visiting Barcelona, I don't have a single connection to anything in France, etc. When my interest in the sport was non-existent I needed something I was actually invested in to raise my interest. The USMNT was that for me until I moved here, and then the LA Galaxy gave me a local team to root for really for the first time...unsurprisingly proximity to being able to watch the game is what led to my interest in the sport growing exponentially.

 

[cutchemist42]

The biggest argument I have to this view is that I have a connection to where I live...I don't have any connections to most European places or clubs. I don't think I'm even related to anyone who has ever been to England, the only reason the EPL is on my radar is because it's the best league in the world with commentary being presented in the language I speak.

I have connections to Munich (my father's side of the family being Bavarian), but I don't speak German...that made following the Bundesliga effectively impossible until really this past year or two outside of seeing my cable bill jump to $200/month and learning German...and before 2007 or 2008 that wasn't even an option.

Don't get me wrong, I 'have' a EPL team that I follow, but I effectively chose them completely at random because they were a mid-table team that I'd never heard of when I played my first FIFA game in 2008 and were heated rivals with one of the teams I was predispositioned to hate (biggest ******* I ever met in college was a die-hard Arsenal fan).

It's hard to fake connections. My only connection to the Spanish league is that I loved visiting Barcelona, I don't have a single connection to anything in France, etc. When my interest in the sport was non-existent I needed something I was actually invested in to raise my interest. The USMNT was that for me until I moved here, and then the LA Galaxy gave me a local team to root for really for the first time...unsurprisingly proximity to being able to watch the game is what led to my interest in the sport growing exponentially.

I just think the very structure of worldwide soccer, unless it hijacks every single player in the World, doesn't allow it to be viewed as highly. In the end all it can be is a closed competition of 30 teams that cannot likely be like the MLB/NHL/NBA and count on "the best" players to carry it. It has an un-interesting continental competition that doesnt line up all that well at times too.

I just frankly think our current NA model of about only 30 teams does get incredibly stale at times, but it at least helps that the best players are seen.

To me, MLS loses a lot because it can never be a part of the most prestigious club soccer event. Our best MLS team is barred from that huge branding the same way the Yomiuri Giants can never compete for the World Series/Boise St is in MWC/etc/etc.

I just think the branding gap is way too strong in the same way the Stanley Cup>>>Gagarin Cup and other comparables. I personally dont see the branding of MLS Cup champ becoming big enough. Some MLS fans are just so obsessed though with obtaining this title it seems.

 

[cutchemist42]

I also think its such a hard task to do this in NA, where the amount of sports interest as a % of the population is declining slightly anyway, at least from what I have gleaned here over the years.

We already have a sports business pie carved up by various leagues/sports having a piece of that pie to varying degrees. The pie can either outgrow/maintain/shrink its overall size in relation to population increase. For a sport to become bigger, it either has to replace other sports' standing, or otherwise bring in new people into the pie. It can even import interest from outside a country, but I think this is limited in MLS's case

I thus just think MLS' ability to both shrink other sports' current standings in NA and bring in new sport fans is limited and too hard to do, based on where it currently stands. I think the gap is too big, that its easier to quickly rise up but the ceiling is hard to reach. Its easier to be go from a 20 handicap golfer to a 4, but those last 4 strokes are the hardest to overcome.

I just think overall, sports in the future will hold less of a hold on the overall population than it currently does, and that will just make it too hard.

 

[Jerkini]

I don't see MLS ever competing with Europe until they abolish the salary cap.

 

[Burke the Legend]

If you ask an American soccer fan about player development, and they're not already in one of two camps... that'll be me and that is way too long to write. Trying a different tack.

Ask a soccer fan about development... learn first touch. Passing to players in motion while in motion. Defending. Learning to think the game. That is if they actually know the sport, and not every soccer fan gets this.

Ask an American football fan: it means hit the weight room and drink your supplements.

Kind of arrogant to consider soccer fans smarter than other sports fans and to specifically call football fans dumb.

In any sport you can as a generalization divide fan viewers into two levels: Those who played the sport and those who didn't. You will always have a deeper understanding of something you've experienced yourself than you can acquire just through observation.

By the way your first paragraph basically applies to any sport. "Think the game", haha ok that is not special to soccer.

 

[theaub]

Kind of arrogant to consider soccer fans smarter than other sports fans and to specifically call football fans dumb.

In any sport you can as a generalization divide fan viewers into two levels: Those who played the sport and those who didn't. You will always have a deeper understanding of something you've experienced yourself than you can acquire just through observation.

By the way your first paragraph basically applies to any sport. "Think the game", haha ok that is not special to soccer.

I don't think he was being arrogant at all.

The player development system in US when it comes to football is hit the weight room, get stronger/faster, and study the playbook. Your path to a pro career via the NCAA level is one where universities recruit based on film but also basic athletic measurables (height, 40 time, bench, squat etc). Obviously you need to be able to catch a ball or tackle etc, but you don't see SEC schools recruiting high school possession receivers for a reason...

 

[Elvis P]

No, there's way too much $ in Europe and the best players will always follow the $. There aren't good players in the MLS. They get the second raters and the guys who are too old to play top level European futbol such as 37 year old Tim Howard, and Brad Guzan may be better than him at this stage of his career. For me personally, I used to live in London and Paris and the EPL is what I care about. Except for the World Cup, I don't care about US futbol at all, and I root for the US men and women and the English men in it.