Will hockey's passion ever make a comeback like in the past?

[Big Phil]

2019 hockey is the most passionless display I have ever seen in my lifetime. With the death of Ted Lindsay it got me thinking about this even more. There was a poll conducted on who was tougher, Lindsay or Shore. Good poll, but it was Shore for sure. The only problem is I am trying to think of a player today that would even be remotely close to Shore. Who is feared today?

Lots of troubling things I see about the game today. It is too sanitized. There are 0.21 fights per game, which is the lowest since 1962 when it was 0.20. Who is a feared hitter today? When was the last time you saw a line brawl, and by line brawl I will say even 2-3 fights happening at once on the ice? Name a heated rivalry in the NHL right now.

Too much of what the media preached 20-30 years ago and tried to persuade the fans to not like (fights, physical hockey, hits, animosity) is the norm now. Basically the Michael Lansbergs and James Duthies of the NHL have gotten their way and it is a shame because we are in a situation where skill is being showcased as well. All we need is animosity back.

Honestly, what can they do to bring it back? Is it just too much part of the culture to be sanitized now and not intimidate or hate the other team? There is someone on the Hockey Fights board who thinks that once the NHL lawsuits are taken care of the refs will let things go a bit more on the ice. Is this true? Hard to say. But man, oh man does the game ever need its passion back. Maybe I am watching too much of my Leafs this year and thinking it is the norm. They are a troubling soft team who show little anger and that worries me not only for the playoffs but because when Travis Dermott got drilled a few weeks ago no one even bothered to do anything about it and he's out a month.

Is there anyway we can have both? Have the skill of the game showcased and have the Don Cherry-style of animosity and toughness back? We used to have it. I would say the 1980s and early to mid 1990s were the best combination of that and I haven't seen it since. The dead puck era had too much of the brawn and not the skill and post lockout there has been too little brawn.

Thoughts? Is this just basically the future of the game now? I used to watch 20 OHL games a year live. I haven't seen one in three years because the game is so watered down now and this is where our future NHLers are coming from.

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[ESH]

2019 hockey is the most passionless display I have ever seen in my lifetime. With the death of Ted Lindsay it got me thinking about this even more. There was a poll conducted on who was tougher, Lindsay or Shore. Good poll, but it was Shore for sure. The only problem is I am trying to think of a player today that would even be remotely close to Shore. Who is feared today?

Lots of troubling things I see about the game today. It is too sanitized. There are 0.21 fights per game, which is the lowest since 1962 when it was 0.20. Who is a feared hitter today? When was the last time you saw a line brawl, and by line brawl I will say even 2-3 fights happening at once on the ice? Name a heated rivalry in the NHL right now.

Too much of what the media preached 20-30 years ago and tried to persuade the fans to not like (fights, physical hockey, hits, animosity) is the norm now. Basically the Michael Lansbergs and James Duthies of the NHL have gotten their way and it is a shame because we are in a situation where skill is being showcased as well. All we need is animosity back.

Honestly, what can they do to bring it back? Is it just too much part of the culture to be sanitized now and not intimidate or hate the other team? There is someone on the Hockey Fights board who thinks that once the NHL lawsuits are taken care of the refs will let things go a bit more on the ice. Is this true? Hard to say. But man, oh man does the game ever need its passion back. Maybe I am watching too much of my Leafs this year and thinking it is the norm. They are a troubling soft team who show little anger and that worries me not only for the playoffs but because when Travis Dermott got drilled a few weeks ago no one even bothered to do anything about it and he's out a month.

Is there anyway we can have both? Have the skill of the game showcased and have the Don Cherry-style of animosity and toughness back? We used to have it. I would say the 1980s and early to mid 1990s were the best combination of that and I haven't seen it since. The dead puck era had too much of the brawn and not the skill and post lockout there has been too little brawn.

Thoughts? Is this just basically the future of the game now? I used to watch 20 OHL games a year live. I haven't seen one in three years because the game is so watered down now and this is where our future NHLers are coming from.

Shore was once suspended 16 games by the league for cracking a player’s skull open.

There’s a reason that fights are declining, and it also has to do with head injuries.

This “passion” you yearn for seems to correlate pretty heavily with brain damage (which in turn has been shown to correlate with long-term mental health issues and even suicide).

The Flames are the lowest hitting team in the league this season, and they’re still involved in tons of scrums after the whistle every game. There’s still passion in the game, players just don’t have to beat eachother’s brains out to show it.

The game is faster than it’s ever been, yet, miraculously, it’s also safer than it’s ever been. I’m glad the NHL is taking a stand towards player safety. “Passion” doesn’t have to mean risking your long-term health.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Unfortunately, these days are probably gone forever because of the medias especially... I greatly miss 80-90's hockey.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crack down on free agency, is among the non-starters for this very real issue...

 

[BenchBrawl]

Look at offense; all of a sudden, it's back.

Those things are cyclic.Media is trending in one direction today but will change course tomorrow.

Might help if the working poor still played hockey, but maybe not.

About brain damage: When your testosterone is at its peak, your legacy or worse, your financial future and reputation are on the line in a battle, are the prevention speeches really going to stop you? Maybe they will if the pressure is really high from all sides, like right now, and more or less everybody follows along.But sooner or later, it will crack.How many young males are risking brain damage fighting in a bar for... basically nothing but pride and reputation, or even just the fun of fighting and measuring yourself against rivals? Yes, this is insanely stupid, but it's also human.

You can always count on those primal instincts to bring back the violent passion one day or another and override the fear of any long-term health problems.You can also count on it to bring back wars, and anything that is seen as primitive or backward today but were present for most of history.

 

[The Panther]

It's mostly a money thing. Up to the late 80s/early 90s, most average to lower-end NHLers made the same money as a doctor or lawyer -- people you knew, went to college with, etc. And that seemed reasonable in that they were low-educated and in a short-term career, unlikely to succeed.

Within eight or ten years, Bobby Holik was making 9 million dollars a year (more than Crosby) as a past-prime second liner. Once that sort of thing starts happening, pro-hockey is less about organically-developed passion and more of a career orientated, professional investment. And thus, careerist professionals are simply not going to risk suspensions, head injuries, and the like when their family's lifetime investment portfolio is at stake.

There's a good parallel here with popular music. Today's NHL is like a corporate-calculated, airbrushed Ariana Grande single/video, and it used to be like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, or Sly & the Family Stone.

 

[ICM1970]

The problems with brain damage and other related issues that ESH mentions in their post seem to concern players of recent years who grew up wearing suits of armour (helmets and full cages and even the neck collars until their mid teens at least and certainly all the way through US high school and NCAA hockey) and with fighting basically banned (US NCAA, minor hockey, Europe, etc) or with stricter sanctions (in Canadian junior hockey for many years and the instigator rule in the NHL) and with that, likely developed that sense of invulnerability and total disregard for what high sticking and board slamming offences could do to someone.

Certainly what Eddie Shore did to Ace Bailey way back in 1933 (with the upending play that fractured Bailey's skull and nearly killed him) was very unfortunate and that there were certainly other incidents that further underscore the idea that the NHL of those years past was many things but certainly not a paragon of 100% gentlemanly clean play (I don't think anyone has tried to make that sort of assertion otherwise). However, from the comments and discussions from players, coaches, and others connected with the game from those days, the game that featured the more hip and shoulder checks and fights and considerably less body armour was likely that cleaner and featured that good deal more accountability and self policing from players (ones like Bobby Orr and Jean Beliveau fought and did not seem to suffer from the after effects of such things during retirement). All of that in turn, likely played more of a role with rivalries and the passion that Big Phil speaks of.

 

[bobholly39]

To me this is just nostalgia speaking. There's a lot of passion in the game today

Rivalries between teams is a bit more difficult with 31 teams competing. Rivalries mostly come out in the playoffs - and teams don't play the same teams often enough. Washington/Pittsburgh is a great rivalry today from the past few years. A few years ago Montreal/Boston was good. Maybe Tor/Boston today too.

But lack or rivalries doesn't mean no passion.

I personally don't care for fighting and never have. Line brawls even worst - it seems unnecessary.

 

[Eisen]

When there is animosity between two clubs, often the games aren't very good but are often grit and grind. Personally, I'm not a big fan of those games. I like hockey best when it's fluid.

 

[Tarantula]

Many good points above but also a big change is how the players have played with or trained with so many of their peers. Back in Ted Lindsay's day players would cross the street to avoid a opponent. Now with all the junior programs and off seadon training, golf tourneys and player movement the angst gets somewhat diminished.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Plus today you have to find a crosswalk to cross the street.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, passion seems to be gone down these days. Montreal/Boston was such a great rivalry as recent as a few yrs. ago, these days hardly any passion for those games.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Did players treat themselves like business commodities with such an intense implicit apathy in the past?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Death by a thousand cuts.

Threat of lawsuits has led to rules that have curtailed the violent aspects that most of us enjoyed. And with the buddy-buddy country club atmosphere between opponents, there's even less chance of those rules being broken regularly. You used to have an NHL where significant numbers of players had to hit and fight regularly to remain in the league. Naturally lots of other guys who didn't have to still did it anyway as a matter of pride. But now if nobody else is hitting or fighting, why bother doing it yourself? I think the mentality has largely become "let's just safely get our money and focus on what's really important....getting drunk together at off-season golf tournaments".

 

[sr edler]

Did players treat themselves like business commodities with such an intense implicit apathy in the past?

Business commodities, sure. Apathy I don't know about, but it's probably not an entirely new phenomenon. Look up some of the players around the pro break. Like Ken Mallen, who isn't some extreme example at all. Some players back then switched teams with an equal frequency to Taylor Swift switching boyfriends, and most often for the $.

 

[MXD]

On one hand, I'm missing rivalries.
On the other, the most important is to get paid, carve out a nice retirement fund and enjoy said retirement.

 

[Flobber]

Can't say I care much about fighting one way or the other, but I agree that the game has become passionless and dull for the most part.

Don't really see it swinging back barring a major societal shift. The fear of head injuries is valid, and I'd expect the game to get even less violent over time as a result. That's probably a good thing, though a little painful for those over about 30 who remember a different era. These things happen though - bear-baiting and dog fights used to be normal entertainment, now they're seen as barbaric. Values shift over time. No real point fighting it.

Plus the NHL is now a very lucrative entertainment product, first and foremost, with all the corporate ideology, lawyers, and PR firms that entails. The "brand" is the most important thing. Players are mostly rich kids, who stand to make millions. They bring a different mentality from the farm boys and urban sons of immigrant factory workers who populated the league in the past. And there's a massive generational difference in attitude, reflected in both players and fans. I'll refrain from too much comment on it as I'm not that interested in taking on the crabby old guy role, but I'll say that along with some very positive social changes (less bigotry, less tolerance of cruelty, etc.) we're certainly seeing some negatives. Most people have become weaker, for lack of a better word, and more driven by their identity as an individual (i.e. culturally encouraged narcissism) than by their role as part of a larger social group. Obviously that'll have an impact on team sports.

Don't think it'll change. Get used to it. Hoping the NHL can cut down further on clutch and grab, so if we're missing a lot of passion and excitement, at least we'll get to watch spectacularly skilled players do their thing unimpeded. Highlight reels are great these days even if the games aren't.

 

[tarheelhockey]

“How can we get the animosity back to the level of Ted Lindsay’s prime?”

*Cites statistic showing fights are at a level identical to Ted Lindsay’s prime*

 

[GMR]

The instigator penalty and the death of the enforcer has indeed made hockey worse for me. That has a lot to do with lack of fighting and rivalries.

 

[MadLuke]

I think major medicine advancement could make it comeback, has of now knowing what it mean for the player rest of life stuff that was really stuff to watch like Stevens should to head hit and heavyweight fight get more cringe from audience and that make the league want to get rid of it.

If they find a cure to restore brain damage to an almost certain level, than it could get fun to see it used has a strategy to win hockey game like it was used in the past.

 

[Big Phil]

The thing is, it wasn't that long ago that it was quite different. Look at Anaheim in 2007. An excellent blend of skill, defense and intimidation. Lots of brawn on that team, and they won the Cup. Since then, only Boston in 2011 perhaps had that same style.

Ted Lindsay once said that he was vacationing somewhere and he saw the Rocket either at poolside or on a beach, I can't remember. Richard was wearing sunglasses of some sort and he and Lindsay caught each other's eye and they just stared at each other. I am assuming never bumping into each other the rest of the vacation. Granted, it doesn't have to be like that either. They were both long retired and probably should have just been cool with each other by then, maybe even laughing about some old times. But the rivalry stuck. I can't imagine players today doing this.

Part of the issue as well is there is too much control and finger wagging going on that is ingrained into the players' heads. They might line themselves up for a big hit, but might also be scared to get a suspension. McDavid's joke of a two game suspension earlier this year shows you how much control the suits have nowadays and how soft the game is. Basically our society has become that nosy elderly neighbour that knew about everyone's business and never was afraid to stick her nose into it. Because of that we've lost some of the natural aspects that made hockey fun, or we see it far less frequently. There used to be about 20 Tom Wilsons in the NHL, now, just one perhaps? You can't tell me this sort of player isn't worth a lot.

Like I said before, maybe the playoffs will surprise us and some teams that ought to be playing against each other grow some animosity towards each other and actually hate each other over a 7 game series. I love the offense back in the NHL, but the regular season just drags more and more with so little passion. 15 years ago does everyone remember Ottawa and Philly's fight night? Jason Spezza of all people had the most penalty minutes in that game. We need to see those games again, it gets people talking and the fans love it. All I thought after that game was "Wow, I hope these two play each other in the playoffs."

 

[Thenameless]

No, the passion will never come back. Never is a long time, but it's not coming back anytime soon; as in, not in our lifetime anyways. So many reasons why. Among them:

1. It's more of a business now, and all that entails.
2. As mentioned above, the reduction in physical play and outright real fights (not this staged garbage).
3. Player movement. I'm not against this at all. It is a reason that there is less passion, hatred, and animosity. Remember, when Malkin and Ovechkin didn't like each other? By the All-Star Game a few years ago, they were like best buddies. Put that in contrast with Howe and Rocket. While I know Malkin and Ovechkin, specifically, haven't moved teams, there is a general sense now that a player is his own man, and less a permanent member of a team. Before, there was definitely more of an "us against them" mentality.
4. This is not a politically correct thing to say, put there is also a general "p***yfying" in today's society. Before, sore ankle/broken leg/headache (concussion) - you still played. Be a man, tough it out. I know players are generally physically bigger and stronger today, but they come from a different background. Now, hockey is more of a sport for privileged children, and less so for the common farm-boy/lower-middle classes that so many ex-NHL'ers came from. When you have to plow the fields or bale hay in the offseason, it's a different mindset altogether. For goodness sake, goalies did not wear masks. Now they stop the play when a goalie loses a mask. Try asking Luongo or Quick to play a few games without a mask - they'd laugh in your face, and I wouldn't blame them. Sorry, not everyone gets a medal.
5. Getting back to point #3 and the "us against them mentality". From an international standpoint, well, all I can say is that you had to be there. There will never be another '72, '76, '79 '81, or '87 when the sport transcended the sport and became more of a Rocky IV - where it extends into ideologies. "We're fighting for the country boys. This is war. We can't let the bad guys win." I'm not just saying this from a Canadian standpoint, as I'm sure the Soviets felt the same way. '96 between the US and Canada was pretty intense, but still not the same.

I'm not a big follower of international soccer/football, but from what I gather European fans are still pretty rabid about their teams in general, singing songs in the stands and getting into fights in the crowd. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in on how they've kept the passion?

 

[CaptBrannigan]

I think more players today realize that hockey player is “what they do” and not “who they are”. I feel this is a healthy attitude to have about any job really. Obviously you’re pretty much always “on” and have to train with really no offseason but the above anecdote about two guys just staring at each other in a chance encounter is absurd.

This ties in to having respect for your opponent. I’m pretty sure some of the posters here wishing for the times of greater animosity and borderline off ice hatred have also posted about the respect players used to have for each other I.e. not boarding, hitting from behind, etc. I don’t see how these views are compatible.

I think the past is being looked at with very heavily tinted rose glasses. A pretty natural thing to do, and everyone does to some degree. I’m not sure how OP can equate passion with “who is feared today?”. Passion has too different a meaning to each individual. I’d say a third line skill guy who is on the ice 350 days a year is exhibiting much more passion for the game than an old school knuckle chucker whose main “talent” is the (much, much overrated and overstated) intimidation factor.

 

[Merya]

I think you're pining for "good ol days" without care for reality. Hockey back then was played by lower and middle class who took great risks to get a slightly bigger pay than in a coal mine or a steel factory. World has changed and we should be thankful of the development and shameful for cheering terrorists like Scott Stevens!

It'd be nice if someone more eloquent would make a thread about the possibility of sanctioning players like Stevens, Ulf and Kasparaitis from consideration for any threads respecting or valuing players. These "players" whose CV includes multiples of intent to injure should be ostracized.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I'm not a big follower of international soccer/football, but from what I gather European fans are still pretty rabid about their teams in general, singing songs in the stands and getting into fights in the crowd. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in on how they've kept the passion?

I believe the English Premier League has gone downhill in this regard because the government decided to clamp down real hard after several catastrophic incidents, mainly banning 'stand-up' sections where the most hardcore fans would usually be at.

How we've maintained the passion? Good question and its answer consists of several factors, I believe. Firstly, you cannot move teams like in NA sports, that idea is wholly foreign to Europeans. Once you've become a fan of one team, you never change. You just don't. The teams are much more grounded in the geography, where you start up is where you will always be. So there is a local connection which is unmistakable.

And maybe the sports are just different? The thing with football never was its violence, though it has had eras of really brutal play, but it was never a central thing to the sport whereas I feel like in ice hockey it actually was a pretty central thing. Never the main course, obviously, but you want that brutality on the ice when you watch hockey. Not every night, but once in a while. It's a thing of the sport.

Today it is getting forced out and I agree with both you and Phil. It's just not the same sport any more - frankly, it is becoming floorball on ice.