Will hockey's passion ever make a comeback like in the past?

[Big Phil]

There are some teams who still do it well. Chara had a nice tilt with Martin tonight and he had a nice one earlier with Evander Kane. That's the thing, the Bruins still get mad, they are one of the rarer teams that actually get mad often. What hockey is missing isn't necessarily that fights aren't at 1.1 per game in the NHL anymore, but it is that it is so rare to see tempers flare out of nowhere. Too much politeness on the ice, too much "after you, no after YOU" mindset in the game. With that passion always came more animosity and yeah fights and more hitting. But even if you aren't dropping the gloves you can still get mad and show passion, but we don't see it.

Or is part of my problem that I have watched too much of the Leafs this year?

 

[Eisen]

Hockey was wrong and so are you! Players who deliberately ended careers should be removed from the Hall of Fame! It doesn't matter if the rules were lax, Stevens knew his tackles would cause major maedical issues and had not respect or sportsmanship. He is the lowest of the low, a thug, headhhunter and a terrorist in hockey. He is even lower than doping users. Don't give me nostalgia crap about a player who played against the rules.

ps. Karya, Lindros... You Phil, can't call yourself a hockey fan, if you think Stevens deserves to be in HHOF after ending those two careers far better than his own.
pps. Far more talented as a correction.

Lindros had it coming. He was a lot dirtier than Stevens.

 

[The Panther]

In my view, neither Lindros nor Stevens was dirty, and especially Stevens.

I mean, Stevens was about as clean as they come within the rules of the time. Late hit on Kariya aside (which was admittedly brutal), I do not recall Stevens ever high-sticking players, dishing dangerous hits after the whistle, etc.

You can't blame the elite-level athlete for doing what is allowed within the rules to win. You can blame the League for not protecting players enough, but you can't blame Stevens for following the rules of hitting to win.


Actually I was thinking of this thread this morning during the Oilers' latest disaster, in St.Louis. Ex-Oiler Pat Maroon and Zach Kassian had a great fight. Where were Kassian and McDavid the night before this game? At Maroon's house, having dinner.

 

[decma]

By the way, let's look at the Lindros play shall we? Lindros gets the puck in a promising transition. He, as usual, isn't paying attention and is skating with his head down. This is Game 7 for the right to go onto the Cup final. He sees Leclair breaking down the wing beside him and just a split second before he is about to dish the puck off to him for him to possibly walk right in Stevens nails him. Devils eventually win.

There was not a GM who did not want Stevens on their team. He was a winner. And this was a time when the onus was still on the player carrying the puck to keep his head up because the defenseman has a job to do and that is hit you and separate you from the puck. I knew it was going to be problematic the second they stopped teaching kids to keep their head up and dole out some of the blame to them if they got hit hard. The result is that we overanalyze every single hit in 2019 to the point where we have lost a ton of passion.

If Stevens isn't a Hall of Famer in your eyes then you are too young to have seen him play.

Separating someone from the puck is one thing. Trying to take a guy out of the game is another.

 

[decma]

I mean, Stevens was about as clean as they come within the rules of the time. Late hit on Kariya aside (which was admittedly brutal), I do not recall Stevens ever high-sticking players, dishing dangerous hits after the whistle, etc.

You can't blame the elite-level athlete for doing what is allowed within the rules to win. You can blame the League for not protecting players enough, but you can't blame Stevens for following the rules of hitting to win.

He was suspended for high sticking and eye gouging. Neither was within the rules of the game, even at the time.

 

[The Panther]

He was suspended for high sticking and eye gouging. Neither was within the rules of the game, even at the time.

Okay, if you say so. I don't recall it, but if you do...

 

[decma]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...99d-9c44-e8b2aa60d737/?utm_term=.8d80fab0d5e5

Devils D Scott Stevens was suspended by the NHL for one game yesterday for a high-sticking incident in his team's season opener against the Red Wings.

Stevens was fined $1,000 and sat out last night's game at Philadelphia.

The incident occurred with 29 seconds remaining in the Devils' 4-1 victory over Detroit Saturday night, when Stevens received a double-minor for high-sticking Igor Larionov.


Manson, Stevens suspended three games

NEW YORK -- Dave Manson of the Chicago Blackhawks and Scott Stevens of the Washington Capitals were suspended without pay for three games for a February fight in which the two players clawed and bit one another, the NHL said Tuesday.

Stevens said he was bitten by Manson and only then responded by gouging Manson's eye.

League officials reviewed tapes of the game, but were unable to decide who started the fight.

Said NHL Vice President Brian O'Neill: 'Both claim the other was responsible. Notwithstanding the difficulty in laying blame, it is clear both players are responsible for their conduct and biting and scratching in this manner are equally unacceptable.'

 

[Nick Hansen]

I don't really blame Stevens for going nasty on Manson, who dished it out a lot himself...

 

[a79krgm]

It's probably worth pointing out to everyone posting in this thread that the generation that preceded yours thought your generation was also becoming soft.

Probably true. I remember old timers arguing constantly about helmets. I sure didn't see how helmets were ruining the game. But them, I didn't get to see the old 6 team league.

 

[ESH]

Honestly, very disappointed not to get any sort of response to my post. I thought I made some pretty good points, all for silence from OP.



Watch 1:10 on and tell me there's no passion in today's game.

 

[Big Phil]

Actually I was thinking of this thread this morning during the Oilers' latest disaster, in St.Louis. Ex-Oiler Pat Maroon and Zach Kassian had a great fight. Where were Kassian and McDavid the night before this game? At Maroon's house, having dinner.

Were you saying this in a good or bad way? I think it is bad if when they hit the ice they ease up on each other. But other than that it's fine. Ted Lindsay and Maurice Richard wouldn't have dined together. John Ferguson once purposely left the Old Spaghetti Factory in Toronto when he saw Eddie Shack show up. But even so, Gretzky had the Soviets over to his house for a BBQ prior to the 1987 Canada Cup and we can't say those teams didn't want to beat each other.

Honestly, very disappointed not to get any sort of response to my post. I thought I made some pretty good points, all for silence from OP.



Watch 1:10 on and tell me there's no passion in today's game.

Absolutely. Lots of passion there. Ovechkin was the funnest guy in NHL history to watch with the Cup, here in this video and all summer long. That guy stuck to the Cup like glue and just seemed to have fun with it. It looked a lot like a guy who waited 13 long seasons to win it. This is why I am waiting for the playoffs because the Caps certainly proved they wanted to win last year. Look at what they did with the Lightning. Once the Caps started wearing them down and hitting them to smithereens the Lightning just curled up into a ball and got shut out in Game 6 and 7. That was passion for sure. I am hoping we see it this spring again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...99d-9c44-e8b2aa60d737/?utm_term=.8d80fab0d5e5

Devils D Scott Stevens was suspended by the NHL for one game yesterday for a high-sticking incident in his team's season opener against the Red Wings.

Stevens was fined $1,000 and sat out last night's game at Philadelphia.

The incident occurred with 29 seconds remaining in the Devils' 4-1 victory over Detroit Saturday night, when Stevens received a double-minor for high-sticking Igor Larionov.


Manson, Stevens suspended three games

NEW YORK -- Dave Manson of the Chicago Blackhawks and Scott Stevens of the Washington Capitals were suspended without pay for three games for a February fight in which the two players clawed and bit one another, the NHL said Tuesday.

Stevens said he was bitten by Manson and only then responded by gouging Manson's eye.

League officials reviewed tapes of the game, but were unable to decide who started the fight.

Said NHL Vice President Brian O'Neill: 'Both claim the other was responsible. Notwithstanding the difficulty in laying blame, it is clear both players are responsible for their conduct and biting and scratching in this manner are equally unacceptable.'

Man, is that it for Stevens for 22 years of hockey? Pretty good I'd say. I know for sure Stevens used to take pride in the fact that he had as many elbowing penalties as fingers on one hand. Playing the type of style he did that is nothing short of a miracle.

Separating someone from the puck is one thing. Trying to take a guy out of the game is another.

Should he have eased up on Lindros and just given him a warning? Maybe the Flyers are the 2000 Cup champs if he is going to play that way. I don't think anyone wants someone like that on their team. You play hard and you play to win. That was Game 7 in a game that was decided by a goal in the final 3 minutes. I don't think there is room to think "Hmmm, this might end his Flyers career." Hockey is too fast for that, and isn't for the faint of heart that the media wants it to be.

 

[c9777666]

Back in the day, there were VHS tapes devoted solely to great hockey hits:





Imagine how many of these hits would lead to fines and suspensions today.

 

[Eisen]

In my view, neither Lindros nor Stevens was dirty, and especially Stevens.

I mean, Stevens was about as clean as they come within the rules of the time. Late hit on Kariya aside (which was admittedly brutal), I do not recall Stevens ever high-sticking players, dishing dangerous hits after the whistle, etc.

You can't blame the elite-level athlete for doing what is allowed within the rules to win. You can blame the League for not protecting players enough, but you can't blame Stevens for following the rules of hitting to win.


Actually I was thinking of this thread this morning during the Oilers' latest disaster, in St.Louis. Ex-Oiler Pat Maroon and Zach Kassian had a great fight. Where were Kassian and McDavid the night before this game? At Maroon's house, having dinner.

I'm torn on Stevens. Yes, the league allowed it but it was definitely vicious at times.
Lindros on the other hand was dirty. He showed very little restraint and always played to hurt.

 

[streitz]

No, I would have money on it getting even softer.


Hitting removed all together in 20 years.

 

[streitz]

Hockey was wrong and so are you! Players who deliberately ended careers should be removed from the Hall of Fame! It doesn't matter if the rules were lax, Stevens knew his tackles would cause major maedical issues and had not respect or sportsmanship. He is the lowest of the low, a thug, headhhunter and a terrorist in hockey. He is even lower than doping users. Don't give me nostalgia crap about a player who played against the rules.

ps. Karya, Lindros... You Phil, can't call yourself a hockey fan, if you think Stevens deserves to be in HHOF after ending those two careers far better than his own.
pps. Far more talented as a correction.

Who cares about Lindros? He had it coming.

 

[member 151739]

Violence, physical play, fights =/= passion.

Everything else that is being complained about can amount to old man yelling at cloud.

 

[streitz]

Violence, physical play, fights =/= passion.

Everything else that is being complained about can amount to old man yelling at cloud.

So watching a bunch of emotionless mercenaries who play like robots is passion?

 

[Thedogo]

I try to be optimistic and hope so. But until then I'll watch minor league hockey where there seems to be more passion and toughness down there.

 

[L L]

Football is complaining of the same thing and even amateur boxing looks very different. It seems that the only venue for passion and violence is MMA. I saw a semi-deliberate bodycheck in a game for 13-year-olds recently, and some parents came unglued. It seems this is where we are now. I very much doubt that we will go back.

 

[rfournier103]

The NHL has definitely changed from when I started watching in the ‘80s. Many reasons are there, but I think there are two big ones.

1. Free agency/money.

Players used to be bound to their teams like serfs, and unless they played well, they got peanuts. Especially when there were fewer teams, all but the elite players were terrified of demotion. Most NHL teams had minor league teams stocked with players who would tear somebody’s head off to get to the NHL and stay there. There was no free agency, and unless they made a name for themselves, they were buried forever unless they were just released. Now, if a player was talented, but not quite the best fit, he could expect to be traded or otherwise spend a long time in the minors. Nobody who was any good was ever allowed to get away for nothing. Today, players have far more opportunities to play in terms of roster spots, and the good players (and sometimes not so good ones) get paid handsomely. They don’t have to kill someone to get their money like in the old days. It’s more of a business today, but less cutthroat at the players’ level, if that makes any sense.

2. Society is different.

I can’t speak about Canadian culture, but there’s been, and continues to be, a huge push against macho tough-guy roughneck behavior in a lot of American society and media - and it’s found it’s way into the NHL. When two kids had a dust-up on the playground when I was a child in the 1980s, we got sent to the principals office. Kinda like the penalty box, in a way. That same fistfight today gets the police involved; counselors are summoned; and a three-day conference needs to be held. Kind of like the NHL league office; director of player safety; and a disciplinary hearing. The NHL is afraid of upsetting millennial snowflake types who have been told their entire lives that fighting for ANY reason is bad and testosterone = no bueno. The NHL is afraid of turning them off to hockey when the big scary hockey guys fight and hit hard.

 

[psycat]

In my view, neither Lindros nor Stevens was dirty, and especially Stevens.

I mean, Stevens was about as clean as they come within the rules of the time. Late hit on Kariya aside (which was admittedly brutal), I do not recall Stevens ever high-sticking players, dishing dangerous hits after the whistle, etc.

You can't blame the elite-level athlete for doing what is allowed within the rules to win. You can blame the League for not protecting players enough, but you can't blame Stevens for following the rules of hitting to win.


Actually I was thinking of this thread this morning during the Oilers' latest disaster, in St.Louis. Ex-Oiler Pat Maroon and Zach Kassian had a great fight. Where were Kassian and McDavid the night before this game? At Maroon's house, having dinner.

Agreed. Messier on the other hand belongs in jail.

 

[Daximus]

I think seeing what guys like Rypien, Belak and Boogard went through was enough to scare a lot of players into taking a safer approach with head injuries. The league fought it for years but it was always bound to catch up with them. Self medicating used to be a lot different to now a days too which often leads to some serious depression when combined with head injuries and some of the drugs these guys were taking. People always say well back in my day we just had a drink and went back at it. But it's pretty similar to what is happening in the military. These guys get seriously f***ed up mentally and then turn to drugs to help ease the pain. It has nothing to do with being weaker and everything to do with self-medicating in far more extreme ways then any previous generation.

In the end I don't think it has anything to do with generations. I'm a millennial and every single one of my friends loves a good hockey fight but we also don't like seeing players get so far away from themselves that suicide feels like the only way out. In a way they were kind of modern day gladiators. Putting their health on the line for entertainment and I think in the end we had to ask ourselves is it really worth it. Is getting exciting about guys beating the piss out of each other worth their lives? On top of that the more dangerous play left a lot of guys in a pretty bad state. We missed out on a lot of good careers because of it.

 

[The Panther]

Agreed. Messier on the other hand belongs in jail.

That's silly. What did Messier do that was so terrible, compared to any other 'tough' players of his era who had 20-year careers?

 

[psycat]

That's silly. What did Messier do that was so terrible, compared to any other 'tough' players of his era who had 20-year careers?

A "hit" like this
would land a mere mortal like me in jail for example and he did it regulary, absolute scumbag of a human being. Also doesn't help that he got the most dislikeable face of, perhaps, ever.

 

[The Panther]

A "hit" like this
would land a mere mortal like me in jail for example and he did it regulary, absolute ******* of a human being. Also doesn't help that he got the most dislikeable face of, perhaps, ever.

Meh. This is one of those ones where, if Modano doesn't suddenly turn his body to the right immediately before the impact, it would have been a minor collision that nobody would remember now. But he turned and dropped his head a bit just as Messier reaches him, so he got concussed. I mean, it's pre-Lock out hockey -- sometimes that happened.

If nothing else, the stretcher-drop at the end of the clip provided us with many hours of black-humor laughter.

Anyway, Messier had his moments, of course. But there seems to be this revisionism where he's now considered the ultimate symbol of a "dirty" player. But back when he was winning the Conn Smythe and Hart trophies, nobody considered him dirty. Even his opponents respected him.

And that wasn't the case with everybody back then. So, I don't get why Messier is always singled out. Maybe it's just Canuck-fans, I don't know...