Friedman: Wild shopping Fiala?

[TaLoN]

It could also be that MN is the worst place for a player like Fiala. It's not like he is surrounded by offensive genius.

We've had worse offensive teams that someone like Gaborik was still able to shine offensively alone. If Fiala was a driver of offense, he'd have no problem showing it no matter who his linemates were.

 

[Predsanddead24]

We've had worse offensive teams that someone like Gaborik was still able to shine offensively alone. If Fiala was a driver of offense, he'd have no problem showing it no matter who his linemates were.

Fiala isn't an elite level player like Gaborik though so that shouldn't be what you expect out of him. I think he could still be a good accessory piece in the top 6 given the right situation, but he's not the type of guy who you want to rely on to be driving the play by himself. He may have once had the potential to be an elite level player but that ship has sailed for him I think.

 

[AKL]

We've had worse offensive teams that someone like Gaborik was still able to shine offensively alone. If Fiala was a driver of offense, he'd have no problem showing it no matter who his linemates were.

Ah, herein lies the problem. You think Fiala should be way more than he is or was ever going to be.

 

[TaLoN]

Fiala isn't an elite level player like Gaborik though so that shouldn't be what you expect out of him. I think he could still be a good accessory piece in the top 6 given the right situation, but he's not the type of guy who you want to rely on to be driving the play by himself. He may have once had the potential to be an elite level player but that ship has sailed for him I think.

That's the thing... he has all the skill to be. The player he was traded for doesn't have half the skill, but has 10x the hockey sense, thus could drive offense.

Fiala isn't lacking in any skill, just has no real hockey sense to go with it.

 

[57special]

Yeah, at this point he's a mystery. Unless something good happens soon, I don't think he's long for the Wild, though. Something just isn't clicking...and it's not like you keep him around for physicality, grit, or defensive awareness. I could see him being another Zucker, maybe, if everything works out well?

Oh, and Granlund has stick and passing skills that Fiala can only dream about. He's just a better skater, and stronger. I think he has a better shot, but can't say that i've seen evidence of that.

 

[TaLoN]

Ah, herein lies the problem. You think Fiala should be way more than he is or was ever going to be.

I expected we would get a player that could actually drive offense since we traded away a player that did exactly that.

The 1 for 1 according to Fenton was supposed to bring a game breaker as he called it. Fiala is not and will never be that.

 

[AKL]

I expected we would get a player that could actually drive offense since we traded away a player that did exactly that.

The 1 for 1 according to Fenton was supposed to bring a game breaker as he called it. Fiala is not and will never be that.

He has a lot of potential, and he still does, to put up points. But he's not a play driver. He can still be a gamebreaking type of player though.
As an example, Laine doesn't drive play whatsoever, but he's a gamebreaking type of player with his skill.

 

[TaLoN]

Yeah, at this point he's a mystery. Unless something good happens soon, I don't think he's long for the Wild, though. Something just isn't clicking...and it's not like you keep him around for physicality, grit, or defensive awareness. I could see him being another Zucker, maybe, if everything works out well?

Oh, and Granlund has stick and passing skills that Fiala can only dream about. He's just a better skater, and stronger. I think he has a better shot, but can't say that i've seen evidence of that.

Unfortunately, I see a Yakupov track here more than a Zucker track. At least Zucker knows his strengths for the most part... sometimes gets carried away with himself trying to do things he's not capable of, but mostly not.

Fiala continually makes terrible decisions and doesn't learn from them at all.

 

[TaLoN]

He has a lot of potential, and he still does, to put up points. But he's not a play driver. He can still be a gamebreaking type of player though.
As an example, Laine doesn't drive play whatsoever, but he's a gamebreaking type of player with his skill.

Laine knows how to get open for a shot. When was the last time you saw Fiala even make himself available in a dangerous shooting position?

 

[AKL]

Laine knows how to get open for a shot. When was the last time you saw Fiala even make himself available in a dangerous shooting position?

It's an example my guy. Of a player who can put up points without driving play. They aren't the same player, they aren't going to play or get points the same way. Ex-amp-le.

 

[redwings25]

fiala has 0 hockey iq, I mean 0. its unbelievable how he just skates into traffic and gives the puck away everytime. maybe the worst hockey iq ive seen, makes boogard look like a smart hockey player.

 

[TaLoN]

It's an example my guy. Of a player who can put up points without driving play. They aren't the same player, they aren't going to play or get points the same way. Ex-amp-le.

We lack offense drivers. We traded our best one for the ultimate passenger, and we should just let it play out? How is that going to help us then?

I think we should cut bait as soon as possible if that's the case. We'll only kill his value more.

I think his problems are deeper than that though, and again cutting bait sooner rather than later is still the best option.

fiala has 0 hockey iq, I mean 0. its unbelievable how he just skates into traffic and gives the puck away everytime. maybe the worst hockey iq ive seen, makes boogard look like a smart hockey player.

just like Yakupov

 

[AKL]

We lack offense drivers. We traded our best one for the ultimate passenger, and we should just let it play out? How is that going to help us then?

I think we're should cut bait as soon as possible if that's the case. We'll only kill his value more.

I think his problems are deeper than that though, and again cutting bait sooner rather than later is still the best option.

What's your hurry? You may WANT to win, but that doesn't mean we're equipped to actually go anywhere. What's your plan if you trade him? Get an older 40-50 point guy and continue to suck? Get a similar aged, similar quality player back and continue to suck? Get a younger prospect back, HOPE he can be as good as Fiala, and continue to suck?

What is your hurry to win everything now? That's the exact same mentality that has us right where we are.

 

[Predsanddead24]

We lack offense drivers. We traded our best one for the ultimate passenger, and we should just let it play out? How is that going to help us then?

I think we're should cut bait as soon as possible if that's the case. We'll only kill his value more.

I think his problems are deeper than that though, and again cutting bait sooner rather than later is still the best option.

I agree that you guys should get rid of him because I don't think he will ever be successful for you, but Fiala being a play driver also isn't a realistic expectation for him and shouldn't ever have been when you traded for him. FWIW Granlund has been the ultimate passenger since coming to us as well.

 

[TaLoN]

What's your hurry? You may WANT to win, but that doesn't mean we're equipped to actually go anywhere. What's your plan if you trade him? Get an older 40-50 point guy and continue to suck? Get a similar aged, similar quality player back and continue to suck? Get a younger prospect back, HOPE he can be as good as Fiala, and continue to suck?

What is your hurry to win everything now? That's the exact same mentality that has us right where we are.

My hurry is to try to maximize his value before everyone realizes it's zero.

I don't want the ultimate return on the trade to be zero.

Once we traded Granlund, it was for a player we HOPED would be as good... now you're saying he's not, and I think it is clear to me he's not. I'd like to try and see if we can find someone who has a better chance of getting there.

I don't see the value in keeping Fiala win or lose that you do.

 

[AKL]

I agree that you guys should get rid of him because I don't think he will ever be successful for you, but Fiala being a play driver also isn't a realistic expectation for him and shouldn't ever have been when you traded for him. FWIW Granlund has been the ultimate passenger since coming to us as well.

FWIW, he was a 40-50 point player until he got put on Staal's wing. He had two good years with Zucker and Staal. He's smart in the sense that he can pass well. Very well. He has decent hands to control the puck, and has he got older he got better at protecting it. He never drove play before Staal. He clearly isn't doing it after Staal. Granlund being a play driving guy is likely overblown.

A lot of people (like some of the people in this thread) are still furious about the fact that tthe trade was made in the first place, and they're not giving Fiala nearly as much of a leash as they gave Granlund, Nino, Coyle and Zucker back in the day, despite the fact that we are in even less of a hurry for these guys to develop. We have more time to give them a longer leash, and people are letting emotions cloud their judgment.

If everything goes according to plan, guys like Kaprizov, Boldy and our 2020 1st round pick will be the main offensive factors if our team is ever going to be good. Which means we have, likely at least 3 years before we need to worry about guys like Fiala or Kunin and what kind of players they are.

 

[AKL]

My hurry is to try to maximize his value before everyone realizes it's zero.

I don't want the ultimate return on the trade to be zero.

Once we traded Granlund, it was for a player we HOPED would be as good... now you're saying he's not, and I think it is clear to me he's not. I'd like to try and see if we can find someone who has a better chance of getting there.

I don't see the value in keeping Fiala win or lose that you do.

Didn't say he couldn't be as good, said he's not the same type of player. Granlund was a 40-45 point player until they found the perfect spot for him to play on our offense.

Now he's a 40-45 point player (maybe?) again. Not the 65-70 point player you think he is/always was/always will be.

We're missing the most key components of our core moving forward. Kaprizov, Boldy, 2020 1st. For all we know, Fiala could be absolutely electric with any of them. There's no point in making rash decisions with a player like Fiala until we at least have the chance to find out.

You're not going to get a good deal for him. At this point, trading him for whatever you can get is decreasing the value of Granlund's return and adding even more risk.

 

[TaLoN]

FWIW, he was a 40-50 point player until he got put on Staal's wing. He had two good years with Zucker and Staal. He's smart in the sense that he can pass well. Very well. He has decent hands to control the puck, and has he got older he got better at protecting it. He never drove play before Staal. He clearly isn't doing it after Staal. Granlund being a play driving guy is likely overblown.

A lot of people (like some of the people in this thread) are still furious about the fact that tthe trade was made in the first place, and they're not giving Fiala nearly as much of a leash as they gave Granlund, Nino, Coyle and Zucker back in the day, despite the fact that we are in even less of a hurry for these guys to develop. We have more time to give them a longer leash, and people are letting emotions cloud their judgment.

If everything goes according to plan, guys like Kaprizov, Boldy and our 2020 1st round pick will be the main offensive factors if our team is ever going to be good. Which means we have, likely at least 3 years before we need to worry about guys like Fiala or Kunin and what kind of players they are.

Not true, his best season (16-17) was with Koivu and Zucker as linemates where he was the offensive catalyst of the line. He was up for the Byng with Tarasenko and Gaudreau, and Koivu was up for the Selke.... Granlund was even 13th in Selke himself that year.

Didn't say he couldn't be as good, said he's not the same type of player. Granlund was a 40-45 point player until they found the perfect spot for him to play on our offense.

Now he's a 40-45 point player (maybe?) again. Not the 65-70 point player you think he is/always was/always will be.

We're missing the most key components of our core moving forward. Kaprizov, Boldy, 2020 1st. For all we know, Fiala could be absolutely electric with any of them. There's no point in making rash decisions with a player like Fiala until we at least have the chance to find out.

You're not going to get a good deal for him. At this point, trading him for whatever you can get is decreasing the value of Granlund's return and adding even more risk.

You see potential still in Fiala, I see Yakupov. I think he's literally in danger of failing out of the NHL completely right now. Not everyone sees that yet, so there is still value. Hold on too long and it will be apparent and then you really get nothing in return.

That's the difference between your opinion and mine.

 

[saywut]

Nobody is giving up a top 2 center for Fiala. Centers have way more value than wingers, especially a winger with one point in 8 games. He's gonna need to be put in a position to succeed and produce to increase his value.

Which is why I'd be shocked if Fiala were traded. The owner OK'd trading arguably his best forward for Fiala 1 for 1 this calendar year, I can't see him OKing trading Fiala for a Kempe or Zacha, which is probably the best we could get, and even those are debatable, just like its debatable if those guys offer any more than Eriksson Ek to the Wild at center. You'd need to have a GM that sees Fiala for what Fenton saw him as, a game breaker, while also willing to part with assets that make sense. The only meaningful player dealt for a meaningful pick since Suter/Parise signed in 2012 was Setoguchi for roster/cap reasons in 2013, so again I don't see the owner approving of trading players for picks.

My opinion of Fiala doesn't really matter, I feel pretty much the same way as TaLoN that Fiala is in danger of falling out of the NHL over the next couple years, and his value is likely to continue to diminish on the Wild, so trading him now does make sense before that happens, I just don't see it happening. Donato's in the same boat but at least he's attached to the oft-disappointing Coyle rather than Granlund.

 

[AKL]

You see potential still in Fiala, I see Yakupov. I think he's literally in danger of failing out of the NHL completely right now. Not everyone sees that yet, so there is still value. Hold on too long and it will be apparent and then you really get nothing in return.

That's the difference between your opinion and mine.

"Yet", as if you can say with any credibility that what you think will happen, will happen (you can't).

The difference is you're certain he has nothing left to offer, and I'm not certain of anything. You have emotions and a gut feeling, I have a lot of evidence, both ways, that's ultimately inconclusive to the type of player he'll be long term.

 

[TaLoN]

"Yet", as if you can say with any credibility that what you think will happen, will happen (you can't).

The difference is you're certain he has nothing left to offer, and I'm not certain of anything. You have emotions and a gut feeling, I have a lot of evidence, both ways, that's ultimately inconclusive to the type of player he'll be long term.

Am I certain? No, but that's the track I'm seeing. You make moves based on what you think may be most likely. I think that's the most likely track if he stays.

It's not good for him or us.

I know at 23yrs old, he has a lot less potential than he had at 21yrs old. This isn't an 18yr old kid we're talking about who has years to work it out. He's reaching the point where he either breaks out or doesn't.

 

[AKL]

Am I certain? No, but that's the track I'm seeing. You make moves based on what you think may be most likely. I think that's the most likely track if he stays.

It's not good for him or us.

You don't trade him just because you have a feeling. You trade him because you're certain he doesn't fit in with the future plans anymore, or because you get an offer too good to refuse.

I know at 23yrs old, he has a lot less potential than he had at 21yrs old.

That's not how potential works.

This isn't an 18yr old kid we're talking about who has years to work it out. He's reaching the point where he either breaks out or doesn't.

Yeah, reaching it. As in, not there yet. And you want to ship him out for...what exactly? before we even get there.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Fenton put him in an awful spot by not only dealing Granlund for him straight up but then justfying it by calling Fiala a game breaker. Not a shock that anything less than that is now a disappointment. Guerin may move him just to save his career and let him start over.

 

[TaLoN]

You don't trade him just because you have a feeling. You trade him because you're certain he doesn't fit in with the future plans anymore, or because you get an offer too good to refuse.



That's not how potential works.



Yeah, reaching it. As in, not there yet. And you want to ship him out for...what exactly? before we even get there.

See what the offers are, obviously. Not for a bag of pucks, I'm sure there's an offer out there worth accepting.

And yes, that's how potential works. At some point potential stops being a thing and a player just is what he is. If Fiala doesn't breakout soon, he likely just is what he is.

 

[AKL]

See what the offers are, obviously. Not for a bag of pucks, I'm sure there's an offer out there worth accepting.

And yes, that's how potential works. At some point potential stops being a thing and a player just is what he is. If Fiala doesn't breakout soon, he likely just is what he is.

You'd rather move him out now, because you don't think he's going to make it, for an unknown piece with an unknown chance of making it.
That's not logic, that's blind emotion.
If Guerin gets an offer for a piece or two that he believes will be a bigger part of the future, I trust him to make that judgment call. I don't trust you, who would move him out for a completely unknown mystery box just because you don't like him.