Friedman: Wild shopping Fiala?

[TaLoN]

You'd rather move him out now, because you don't think he's going to make it, for an unknown piece with an unknown chance of making it.
That's not logic, that's blind emotion.
If Guerin gets an offer for a piece or two that he believes will be a bigger part of the future, I trust him to make that judgment call. I don't trust you, who would move him out for a completely unknown mystery box just because you don't like him.

Unknown mystery box only because I can't tell you who is available? I'm not on the phone with GM's to answer that. I'm just saying why the reports of him being shopped are likely a good idea. That is what this thread is about after all.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Kinda weird how Granlund hasn't worked out in Nashville at all.

 

[TaLoN]

Kinda weird how Granlund hasn't worked out in Nashville at all.

I heard some say the Forsberg- Duchene- Granlund line was starting to look good, then Forsberg got injured.

Then didn't Duchene get injured to? Turris has been a boat anchor for a while now.

 

[Bazeek]

Unknown mystery box only because I can't tell you who is available? I'm not on the phone with GM's to answer that. I'm just saying why the reports of him being shopped are likely a good idea. That is what this thread is about after all.

There aren't actually reports of him being shopped. There's a report from Russo that he's not being shopped and speculation from Garrioch and Friedman that he might be available based on the recent scratches. Both of those are likely true.

If Guerin really felt the need to cut bait on him right now I'm sure he could pull a guy like Puljujarvi from Edmonton, but a trade like that basically leaves us with the same problem.

 

[TaLoN]

If Guerin really felt the need to cut bait on him right now I'm sure he could pull a guy like Puljujarvi from Edmonton, but a trade like that basically leaves us with the same problem.

You think that's the best offer we could get?

 

[AKL]

There aren't actually reports of him being shopped. There's a report from Russo that he's not being shopped and speculation from Garrioch and Friedman that he might be available based on the recent scratches. Both of those are likely true.

If Guerin really felt the need to cut bait on him right now I'm sure he could pull a guy like Puljujarvi from Edmonton, but a trade like that basically leaves us with the same problem.

Who was the one that reported that Guerin is listening on all players, though not specifically shopping anyone in particular?

 

[AKL]

You think that's the best offer we could get?

What do YOU think we could get for a player that YOU desperately want to trade because YOU think he's going to bust out of the league sooner rather than later?

And what do you consider an acceptable return?

You certainly are very confident that there's going to be a deal out there considering you don't actually know what's out there.

 

[Bazeek]

You think that's the best offer we could get?

If your evaluation of him is true and Guerin was looking to sell him while he's struggling? I would not expect teams to be breaking down the door with offers, no.

 

[Bazeek]

Who was the one that reported that Guerin is listening on all players, though not specifically shopping anyone in particular?

Russo's said as much. I'm not sure if anyone else has.

 

[TaLoN]

What do YOU think we could get for a player that YOU desperately want to trade because YOU think he's going to bust out of the league sooner rather than later?

And what do you consider an acceptable return?

You certainly are very confident that there's going to be a deal out there considering you don't actually know what's out there.

In the Athanasiou thread, someone said he's worth more than just a one for one with Fiala, I respond Fiala+Donato.

I'd do that in a heartbeat!

If your evaluation of him is true and Guerin was looking to sell him while he's struggling? I would not expect teams to be breaking down the door with offers, no.

Right now the struggles can just be attributed to chemistry issues. The longer it goes on, the more right you would be.

I don't think his value has dropped much yet because of the short time here.

 

[AKL]

In the Athanasiou thread, someone said he's worth more than just a one for one with Fiala, I respond Fiala+Donato.

I'd do that in a heartbeat!

Great, we can trade Fiala and Donato for an older left wing with 3 points in 11 games himself, and that will do what for us, exactly?

Right now the struggles can just be attributed to chemistry issues. The longer it goes on, the more right you would be.

I don't think his value has dropped much yet because of the short time here.

If it's just chemistry issues, why would we not hold on to him with the idea that we're going to be getting an influx of players like Kaprizov, Boldy, 2020 1st, and more in the next 1-5 years? That makes zero sense.

 

[TaLoN]

Great, we can trade Fiala and Donato for an older left wing with 3 points in 11 games himself, and that will do what for us, exactly?

25yrs old, coming off a 30 goal season... Center... yeah, what value is that to us?

 

[AKL]

25yrs old, coming off a 30 goal season... Center... yeah, what value is that to us?

"Center" that's 6th on his team in faceoffs taken and is winning 42% of those.
You remember when Zucker scored 30 goals and hasn't done it since? Nino, Coyle's 57/56 point seasons that they can't replicate?

Did you ever ask yourself why the Red Wings, a team in desperate need of center depth, would trade a 25 year old "center" that can score 30 goals? Do you remember when Wild fans wanted to trade Zucker after his 30 goal season because his value would likely never be as high again?

 

[Bazeek]

Right now the struggles can just be attributed to chemistry issues. The longer it goes on, the more right you would be.

I don't think his value has dropped much yet because of the short time here.

Do the chemistry issues and short number of games played for Minnesota not factor into your assessment how he'll pan out in Minnesota? Why would a team bank on things being different and give up more than a similar "change of scenery" type player, or a fairly modest draft pick?

And I like Athanasiou, but he's not a center.

 

[TaLoN]

Do the chemistry issues and short number of games played for Minnesota not factor into your assessment how he'll pan out in Minnesota? Why would a team bank on things being different and give up more than a similar "change of scenery" type player, or a fairly modest draft pick?

And I like Athanasiou, but he's not a center.

No, because I see hockey IQ problems with him, and his nosedive started before he came here. Look from mid January on in Nashville.

"Center" that's 6th on his team in faceoffs taken and is winning 42% of those.
You remember when Zucker scored 30 goals and hasn't done it since? Nino, Coyle's 57/56 point seasons that they can't replicate?

Did you ever ask yourself why the Red Wings, a team in desperate need of center depth, would trade a 25 year old "center" that can score 30 goals? Do you remember when Wild fans wanted to trade Zucker after his 30 goal season because his value would likely never be as high again?

Ok, it still solves the glut of wings by getting one, and we can only HOPE one of Donato or Fiala one day might be as good as he is.

We still need goal scorers, and he has proven he can score goals and is still younger than Zucker is even.

 

[AKL]

No, because I see hockey IQ problems with him, and his nosedive started before he came here. Look from mid January on in Nashville.

Do you feel Granlund is a 30 point player?

 

[Bazeek]

No, because I see hockey IQ problems with him, and his nosedive started before he came here. Look from mid January on in Nashville.

So why would any team looking to acquire him not point to the same deficiencies that you see? Why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when you don't?

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm more optimistic about his prospects here but I share a lot of the same concerns. I'm just saying that if we decided to move him right now we're not looking at a return that has many of the same warts that Fiala does.

 

[TaLoN]

Do you feel Granlund is a 30 point player?

Not a comparable.

 

[TaLoN]

So why would any team looking to acquire him not point to the same deficiencies that you see? Why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when you don't?

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm more optimistic about his prospects here but I share a lot of the same concerns. I'm just saying that if we decided to move him right now we're not looking at a return that has many of the same warts that Fiala does.

Because not everyone sees the same thing. Look what Fenton offered just last year.

There are people on the boards here who see tons of value in him.

 

[AKL]

Not a comparable.

Why not?

Both Granlund and Fiala have shown they're capable of a certain level of production in the past.
Both Granlund and Fiala had their play start to dip during the 2018-19 season.
Both Granlund and Fiala have scored at rates far lower than their previously established capable level of production.

Why is Granlund still a 65-70 point player to you, but Fiala is a bust we need to get rid of ASAP?

Are you going to admit you're completely blinded by emotion, or will you keep drudging down this path?

Everything you say is at odds with something else you say. The only thing that's clear is that you don't like Fiala.

 

[TaLoN]

Why not?

Both Granlund and Fiala have shown they're capable of a certain level of production in the past.
Both Granlund and Fiala had their play start to dip during the 2018-19 season.
Both Granlund and Fiala have scored at rates far lower than their previously established capable level of production.

Why is Granlund still a 65-70 point player to you, but Fiala is a bust we need to get rid of ASAP?

Are you going to admit you're completely blinded by emotion, or will you keep drudging down this path?

Everything you say is at odds with something else you say. The only thing that's clear is that you don't like Fiala.

Because Granlund has been able to repeat his success. Fiala has not.

Granlund was already a 40+ point player as a center, then moved to wing and became a 60+point player.

Granlund's struggles are comparable to a slump, Fiala has yet to even breakout in the first place.

 

[Bazeek]

Because not everyone sees the same thing. Look what Fenton offered just last year.

There are people on the boards here who see tons of value in him.

Part of the problem here is that the guy that traded for him was probably a bigger Fiala fan than Fiala's mom. I don't think we can point to what we paid and use that as a benchmark for what we can expect to get back.

But GMs do miscalculate and overpay, and I guess we can always hope that we come out on top in a deal like that. I wouldn't count on it, but it's not impossible.

 

[TaLoN]

Part of the problem here is that the guy that traded for him was probably a bigger Fiala fan than Fiala's mom. I don't think we can point to what we paid and use that as a benchmark for what we can expect to get back.

But GMs do miscalculate and overpay, and I guess we can always hope that we come out on top in a deal like that. I wouldn't count on it, but it's not impossible.

No way to know what's offered until something is leaked, just right now I'd hold out and look for better options than the one you suggested.

 

[AKL]

Because Granlund has been able to repeat his success. Fiala has not.

Granlund was already a 40+ point player as a center, then moved to wing and became a 60+point player.

Granlund's struggles are comparable to a slump, Fiala has yet to even breakout in the first place.

Granlund had two seasons as a 45+ point player.
Fiala has had two seasons as a 40+ point player.

Both of their struggles are comparable to a slump.
Both of them started with their old teams and continued to their new teams.
Both of them have had ~30 games with their new teams.

It's the exact same situation. Exact same. The only difference is that Granlund scores more points both during their high years and their low years, but it's the exact same situation.
Both of them are underachieving when compared to levels they've hit previously.

How do you not see this?

 

[TaLoN]

Granlund had two seasons as a 45+ point player.
Fiala has had two seasons as a 40+ point player.

Both of their struggles are comparable to a slump.
Both of them started with their old teams and continued to their new teams.
Both of them have had ~30 games with their new teams.

It's the exact same situation. Exact same. The only difference is that Granlund scores more points both during their high years and their low years, but it's the exact same situation.
Both of them are underachieving when compared to levels they've hit previously.

How do you not see this?

Granlund broke out from a 40 point player into a 60 point player and repeated that success.

A 40 point center is worth more than a 40 point winger. Fiala has yet to break out.

Granlund has a high hockey IQ, Fiala does not.