Why The Nylander Contract is a Very Good Deal

[Bluelines]

Its this type of game that he plays why anyone that thinks he is worth $7mil per season is out to lunch. He disappeared in the playoffs last year, and I do not see why this year will be any different. He is a perimeter player, and actually looks more scared of contact than previous years. Its not uncommon that some guys just want to collect a cheque. Maybe I'm wrong and Willie turns the corner, but Im not holding my breath.

The money he makes should not be a concern of the fan, it does not come out of our personal bank accounts. If Dubas thinks he is worth 7, then its on Dubas to justify why he paid 7 mil.

I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong, he has a style that when he is not scoring, can look lazy. Drive by's are common, but he is a great possession player, for a guy who has a reputation for not being physical he wins more 50/50 battles than he loses, his take away's/60 are usually among the best on the team.

The guy has value, he makes our team better. Expecting him to be something he is not is either a misread by some fans or people just not understanding that it takes more than one type of player to be competitive. At best he is an elite complimentary player at worst he is pigeon.

 

[Trapper]

I except him to show up every night and earn the $7mil/year he held out for. Obviously this guy thinks hes the king sh&t, but his embarrassingly soft play and obvious lack of caring is insufferable. At least if you are going to loaf around and avoid all physical contact you better be able to score, so far, that's not happening.

Since signing their deals (players used as comparables)

Ehlers - 6 million - on pace for 54 points
Larkin - 6.1 million - on pace for 75 points
Pastrnak - 6.6 million - on pace for 99 points

Nylander 6.9 - remains to be seen

So far the title of this thread is not very good subject to change.

 

[ottomaddox]

I think some people are expecting a different Nylander because of the new contract. The guy has never been a physical guy, he has never been an energy guy, he's never been known as someone who is a great 2 way player. People can call him soft, which is fine, he plays a non physical game.

What Nylander is a guy who excels at take away's, excels at beating the goalie one on one, is pretty darn good on the cycle, plays a strong possession game. I still think come playoff time he will be the guy who is just hitting is mid season stride and will among our points leader. He has two games with Matthews and has produced in those games.

Nylander is not a front of the line player, he is a complimentary player, who helps create time and space with and for Matthews. Some of the posters here are expecting because he is a $7 mil per year guy, for him to be a different player than he was in the past, a guy on par with Matthews or Marner, he is not and he will never be that type of guy.

I think people need to judge him today, on what he has done in the past, is he doing that or is he not? What I see is a guy who is getting paid to score and guy that is not scoring. It's the same thing with Tavares early this year, he stunk the joint out the first few weeks ( first month?), he was not scoring and then poof he broke out and has been on a season long rip.

Willie is the least of our worries. Healthy goaltender and solid team defensive play would be the top two on my list.

I like this post, but I think perhaps you are understating your worries. If you weren't worried you wouldn't write the above thesis paper in his defense.

I never worried too much about Nylander before until now. His contract dispute was a big distraction for the fanbase and ticked off a lot of people.

His poor conditioning, etc. is really disappointing. Yes I know that he wasn't playing with TOR, but he knew he was going to play hockey this season. Why he didn't keep himself in top form is big one for me. Many beer league athletes do more to prepare for a season than he does. Nylander has no excuse. He is going into the season as a pro athlete in poor condition? What? Doesn't he understand what professionalism is?

The biggest problem is his lack of production. He's paid to produce and he's not producing. Perhaps he'll never find his game or any chemistry in the top 6. That's a problem too because his trade value all of a sudden becomes an all time low.

I'm glad Carlo Colaiacovo gave him a verbal kick in the pants. He needs to get going in the worst way. He is not helping TOR at all. No production and now no trade value. He's for sure going to see time on the 4th line soon. That's for sure.

 

[Bluelines]

I like this post, but I think perhaps you are understating your worries. If you weren't worried you wouldn't write the above thesis paper in his defense.

I never worried too much about Nylander before until now. His contract dispute was a big distraction for the fanbase and ticked off a lot of people.

His poor conditioning, etc. is really disappointing. Yes I know that he wasn't playing with TOR, but he knew he was going to play hockey this season. Why he didn't keep himself in top form is big one for me. Many beer league athletes do more to prepare for a season than he does. Nylander has no excuse. He is going into the season as a pro athlete in poor condition? What? Doesn't he understand what professionalism is?

The biggest problem is his lack of production. He's paid to produce and he's not producing. Perhaps he'll never find his game or any chemistry in the top 6. That's a problem too because his trade value all of a sudden becomes an all time low.

I'm glad Carlo Colaiacovo gave him a verbal kick in the pants. He needs to get going in the worst way. He is not helping TOR at all. No production and now no trade value. He's for sure going to see time on the 4th line soon. That's for sure.

No worries at all from my perspective. TBH I don't identify with Nylander's game, he would never be a guy I would turn the TV on expecting to see something special. I see him as a complimentary guy, nothing more nothing less.

I turn the TV on to watch Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Andersen and believe it or not I love to watch Kapanen, his speed and fore check and brute strength is simply overpowering. Johnson is a guy I enjoy watching too, he plays a nasty game, we haven't seen as much of it in his first yer as a NHLer, I suspect that it's something that will come with time.

If they traded Willie tomorrow I wouldn't be upset, if they traded Kapanen tomorrow I would be extremely pissed.

My previous few posts were to point out some posters are expecting Willie to play like a bull in a china shop, smashing and banging and laying people out, when that has never been his game, it's unrealistic. Why would we expect a few dollars in his bank account to change his style completely? Call him a soft player or call him a finesse player, different sides to the same coin.

$7 mil is now the price for complimentary wingers, it's stupid money but that is the new landscape in the NHL.

 

[Pookie]

Its this type of game that he plays why anyone that thinks he is worth $7mil per season is out to lunch. He disappeared in the playoffs last year, and I do not see why this year will be any different. He is a perimeter player, and actually looks more scared of contact than previous years. Its not uncommon that some guys just want to collect a cheque. Maybe I'm wrong and Willie turns the corner, but Im not holding my breath.

Dubas, the Analytics Team, and Shanahan seem to think he’s worth the cash.

 

[BlueForever75]

I don't think we will see the true value of the Nylander deal until he plays a full season. Nylander still provides enough threat and skill to put the opposition on its heels regardless of whether or not he is scoring points at this time. What ever we get from Nylander this season is a bonus considering the alternative with this lineup. Its next season we will really know if the deal is a good one or not.

 

[Bluelines]

Ya okay there buddy. What’s your hockey background other than watching a big screen in your parents basement?

What if his parents were Scotty and Stella Bowman?

 

[RLF]

I think some people are expecting a different Nylander because of the new contract. The guy has never been a physical guy, he has never been an energy guy, he's never been known as someone who is a great 2 way player. People can call him soft, which is fine, he plays a non physical game.

What Nylander is a guy who excels at take away's, excels at beating the goalie one on one, is pretty darn good on the cycle, plays a strong possession game. I still think come playoff time he will be the guy who is just hitting is mid season stride and will among our points leader. He has two games with Matthews and has produced in those games.

Nylander is not a front of the line player, he is a complimentary player, who helps create time and space with and for Matthews. Some of the posters here are expecting because he is a $7 mil per year guy, for him to be a different player than he was in the past, a guy on par with Matthews or Marner, he is not and he will never be that type of guy.

I think people need to judge him today, on what he has done in the past, is he doing that or is he not? What I see is a guy who is getting paid to score and guy that is not scoring. It's the same thing with Tavares early this year, he stunk the joint out the first few weeks ( first month?), he was not scoring and then poof he broke out and has been on a season long rip.

Willie is the least of our worries. Healthy goaltender and solid team defensive play would be the top two on my list.

I can go along with much of what you are saying. People should not expect Nylander to be a "different" player and personally, I am not.

That said, when you are not producing points when you are a point producer, you need to up other parts of your game. That is typically what gets you out of the slump. Normally it just doesn't eventually come back. You have to make it happen. It would be hard to argue that when he first came back he looked terrible. Couldn't handle a puck, looked slow, compete was non-existent, shot even looked weak. He didn't look prepared at all.

I understand the "takes time to get to game speed" and it isn't the same when you miss pre-season and start in December instead of October. But for people to say we should have expected the way he looked at the start is crazy to me. He is a professional athlete. A highly skilled player. It may be different to start in December than October, but your skills shouldn't vanish over the summer. If this was true, nobody would have good starts even in October because it would take them months to get up to speed. The best players only get a couple exhibition games and some practices, but very few with what will be the final roster. Those who are truly prepared, come out of the gates flying. I had no problem giving Willy 5-7 games to get to speed, but it took a lot longer and really to game 11 to start to even resemble the player we signed. Personally, I don't think he was well prepared and that does rub me the wrong way. Add to that, he doesn't do the things you need to when you are not producing...and it starts to get old fast.

It may be high expectations to some, but when you sit out to get a max comparable contract, I expect you to be prepared when you get back and bust your hump. I really don't find that unreasonable.

As for Tavares looking bad to start the season...the guy had 13 points in 12 games in October. Then only had like 2 or 3 games in November that he didn't record a point. What type of start were you expecting?

 

[RLF]

The money he makes should not be a concern of the fan, it does not come out of our personal bank accounts. If Dubas thinks he is worth 7, then its on Dubas to justify why he paid 7 mil.

I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong, he has a style that when he is not scoring, can look lazy. Drive by's are common, but he is a great possession player, for a guy who has a reputation for not being physical he wins more 50/50 battles than he loses, his take away's/60 are usually among the best on the team.

The guy has value, he makes our team better. Expecting him to be something he is not is either a misread by some fans or people just not understanding that it takes more than one type of player to be competitive. At best he is an elite complimentary player at worst he is pigeon.

I disagree here. It is a cap world, so whatever we pay any player is a concern for the fan as we know the Leafs only have so much money to build a team. What players get paid is a huge portion of being a fan now because of the cap. No cap, I could care less what they make. But for $7M, if you are a producer, you better produce if that's your bread and butter and don't or won't do the other things to help a team win.

 

[GoonieFace]

I can go along with much of what you are saying. People should not expect Nylander to be a "different" player and personally, I am not.

That said, when you are not producing points when you are a point producer, you need to up other parts of your game. That is typically what gets you out of the slump. Normally it just doesn't eventually come back. You have to make it happen. It would be hard to argue that when he first came back he looked terrible. Couldn't handle a puck, looked slow, compete was non-existent, shot even looked weak. He didn't look prepared at all.

I understand the "takes time to get to game speed" and it isn't the same when you miss pre-season and start in December instead of October. But for people to say we should have expected the way he looked at the start is crazy to me. He is a professional athlete. A highly skilled player. It may be different to start in December than October, but your skills shouldn't vanish over the summer. If this was true, nobody would have good starts even in October because it would take them months to get up to speed. The best players only get a couple exhibition games and some practices, but very few with what will be the final roster. Those who are truly prepared, come out of the gates flying. I had no problem giving Willy 5-7 games to get to speed, but it took a lot longer and really to game 11 to start to even resemble the player we signed. Personally, I don't think he was well prepared and that does rub me the wrong way. Add to that, he doesn't do the things you need to when you are not producing...and it starts to get old fast.

It may be high expectations to some, but when you sit out to get a max comparable contract, I expect you to be prepared when you get back and bust your hump. I really don't find that unreasonable.

As for Tavares looking bad to start the season...the guy had 13 points in 12 games in October. Then only had like 2 or 3 games in November that he didn't record a point. What type of start were you expecting?

Very well said. I for one do not expect Nylander to go out and crash and bang with people. But seriously, show some effort. Get to your man at the blueline, instead of floating out there and than pull the flamingo. His effort and intensity level is pathetic, and if people want to make the excuse that he missed time, that is even worse to me. Show up in shape and ready to go. Obviously he didnt care enough to do that.

 

[GoonieFace]

The money he makes should not be a concern of the fan, it does not come out of our personal bank accounts. If Dubas thinks he is worth 7, then its on Dubas to justify why he paid 7 mil.

I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong, he has a style that when he is not scoring, can look lazy. Drive by's are common, but he is a great possession player, for a guy who has a reputation for not being physical he wins more 50/50 battles than he loses, his take away's/60 are usually among the best on the team.

The guy has value, he makes our team better. Expecting him to be something he is not is either a misread by some fans or people just not understanding that it takes more than one type of player to be competitive. At best he is an elite complimentary player at worst he is pigeon.

The money does matter to fans in a cap world though, as it affects the rest of the team. No cap? I couldn't care less if they paid him $30mil/year. If you are taking up that much cap space, you better earn it.

 

[Bluelines]

I can go along with much of what you are saying. People should not expect Nylander to be a "different" player and personally, I am not.

That said, when you are not producing points when you are a point producer, you need to up other parts of your game. That is typically what gets you out of the slump. Normally it just doesn't eventually come back. You have to make it happen. It would be hard to argue that when he first came back he looked terrible. Couldn't handle a puck, looked slow, compete was non-existent, shot even looked weak. He didn't look prepared at all.

I understand the "takes time to get to game speed" and it isn't the same when you miss pre-season and start in December instead of October. But for people to say we should have expected the way he looked at the start is crazy to me. He is a professional athlete. A highly skilled player. It may be different to start in December than October, but your skills shouldn't vanish over the summer. If this was true, nobody would have good starts even in October because it would take them months to get up to speed. The best players only get a couple exhibition games and some practices, but very few with what will be the final roster. Those who are truly prepared, come out of the gates flying. I had no problem giving Willy 5-7 games to get to speed, but it took a lot longer and really to game 11 to start to even resemble the player we signed. Personally, I don't think he was well prepared and that does rub me the wrong way. Add to that, he doesn't do the things you need to when you are not producing...and it starts to get old fast.

It may be high expectations to some, but when you sit out to get a max comparable contract, I expect you to be prepared when you get back and bust your hump. I really don't find that unreasonable.

As for Tavares looking bad to start the season...the guy had 13 points in 12 games in October. Then only had like 2 or 3 games in November that he didn't record a point. What type of start were you expecting?

Between Oct 11 and Nov 1st, JT had a stretch of 1 goal in 8 games but like I said he's been on a tear since then, he's exceed my expectations.

I think all you posted is fair, we should expect Willie to hit the ground running, we should expect him to score more than 3 points in 14 games. For me it has always been is he complimenting his linemates and is he scoring around .6 points per game, he is not but I firmly believe that he will soon.

 

[RLF]

Between Oct 11 and Nov 1st, JT had a stretch of 1 goal in 8 games but like I said he's been on a tear since then, he's exceed my expectations.

I think all you posted is fair, we should expect Willie to hit the ground running, we should expect him to score more than 3 points in 14 games. For me it has always been is he complimenting his linemates and is he scoring around .6 points per game, he is not but I firmly believe that he will soon.

That's a little bit of a vacuum on JT, No? I mean he had 6 goals in the first 4 games and then 1 goal and 7 assists in the 9 games you are referring to. Still almost a ppg over that span. He was also still competing hard, I would be thrilled for Willy if that was his tough start.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think some people are expecting a different Nylander because of the new contract. The guy has never been a physical guy, he has never been an energy guy, he's never been known as someone who is a great 2 way player. People can call him soft, which is fine, he plays a non physical game.

What Nylander is a guy who excels at take away's, excels at beating the goalie one on one, is pretty darn good on the cycle, plays a strong possession game. I still think come playoff time he will be the guy who is just hitting is mid season stride and will among our points leader. He has two games with Matthews and has produced in those games.

Nylander is not a front of the line player, he is a complimentary player, who helps create time and space with and for Matthews. Some of the posters here are expecting because he is a $7 mil per year guy, for him to be a different player than he was in the past, a guy on par with Matthews or Marner, he is not and he will never be that type of guy.

I think people need to judge him today, on what he has done in the past, is he doing that or is he not? What I see is a guy who is getting paid to score and guy that is not scoring. It's the same thing with Tavares early this year, he stunk the joint out the first few weeks ( first month?), he was not scoring and then poof he broke out and has been on a season long rip.

Willie is the least of our worries. Healthy goaltender and solid team defensive play would be the top two on my list.

Completely and totally agree. All of these naysayers would be completely silent if he played the same way and had 1 pt/game avg. In fact that is what is very likely to happen. His style will not change but his legs, his hand/eye and finally his game will come back to NHL level in next few weeks and he will produce points. He is not going to do much else. He never has before and he won't in the future. He might even be sat down against a team like the Bruins because that is not his game. Players of this ilk all have the same issues. Forgetting about the dr*gs it is why Bruins did not like Seguin. It is why Pens fans have troubles with Kessel. But when those guys are on from a scoring standpoint no one gives a cr*p. It has been like this throughout hockey history. Every team has a guy or two like this. So relax and wait for his game to come back. No worries here.

 

[Mess]

Dubas, the Analytics Team, and Shanahan seem to think he’s worth the cash.

Their opinions are the only ones that count.

 

[Trapper]

Their opinions are the only ones that count.

Only 1 person can validate that.
If not, the opinion was wrong.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If babcock's quote the other day doesn't give Willy a kick in the arse, not sure what will:

“He's got to get better. All the details, all the compete, all that stuff has just got to keep getting better. He will the more he plays, but the urgency level has to be there.”

 

[Notsince67]

I don't think we will see the true value of the Nylander deal until he plays a full season. Nylander still provides enough threat and skill to put the opposition on its heels regardless of whether or not he is scoring points at this time. What ever we get from Nylander this season is a bonus considering the alternative with this lineup. Its next season we will really know if the deal is a good one or not.

It really is irrelevant if the deal is perfect now. The difference of a bad deal and an anchor is large. Willy can definitely show his contract isnt an anchor by putting up points at a rate comparable to last year soon.

 

[Mess]

Only 1 person can validate that.
If not, the opinion was wrong.

A $7 mil player should be a 70+ point player to validate that contract.

 

[Trapper]

A $7 mil player should be a 70+ point player to validate that contract.

Absolutely.
As I’ve stated, 6.1 Larkin is playing center with limited support and on pace for 75 points. A 7 million winger with Matthews should be 80 easy.

 

[rumman]

It really is irrelevant if the deal is perfect now. The difference of a bad deal and an anchor is large. Willy can definitely show his contract isnt an anchor by putting up points at a rate comparable to last year soon.

it would do him a world of good to also embrace some physical contact, the guy doesn't have to be Tom Wilson, but even a shrimp like Marner doesn't shy away from contact, Nyalnder plays way too soft, someone has to tell him a little contact won't kill him, and might actually get him engaged in the game, something that he surely isn't doing now.

 

[rumman]

A $7 mil player should be a 70+ point player to validate that contract.

at the very least.

 

[rumman]

Absolutely.
As I’ve stated, 6.1 Larkin is playing center with limited support and on pace for 75 points. A 7 million winger with Matthews should be 80 easy.

many here scoffed at the Larkin/Nylander comparison. I get it now, they can't be compared because Larkin is miles ahead of WN, not even close.

 

[ottomaddox]

No worries at all from my perspective. TBH I don't identify with Nylander's game, he would never be a guy I would turn the TV on expecting to see something special. I see him as a complimentary guy, nothing more nothing less.

I turn the TV on to watch Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Andersen and believe it or not I love to watch Kapanen, his speed and fore check and brute strength is simply overpowering. Johnson is a guy I enjoy watching too, he plays a nasty game, we haven't seen as much of it in his first yer as a NHLer, I suspect that it's something that will come with time.

If they traded Willie tomorrow I wouldn't be upset, if they traded Kapanen tomorrow I would be extremely pissed.

My previous few posts were to point out some posters are expecting Willie to play like a bull in a china shop, smashing and banging and laying people out, when that has never been his game, it's unrealistic. Why would we expect a few dollars in his bank account to change his style completely? Call him a soft player or call him a finesse player, different sides to the same coin.

$7 mil is now the price for complimentary wingers, it's stupid money but that is the new landscape in the NHL.

Complimentary player huh? Well You and me had a good idea as to what he is, but what about around the time of the negotiations? So many of our own HF Club said he was worth 7 million because he "capable of being a PPG player". A player like Nylander will probably never be a PPG player especially if he's a complimentary one. No one seems to remember his two seasons of being put on the 4th line. How the heck do you become a PPG player on the 4th line?!

I don't know if anyone is hoping he becomes a checker and guy capable of bone crushing hits. I just question why Dubas spent so much wasted time and salary towards a light complimentary player like Nylander.

 

[ottomaddox]

Absolutely.
As I’ve stated, 6.1 Larkin is playing center with limited support and on pace for 75 points. A 7 million winger with Matthews should be 80 easy.

Nylander 80?

You actually have to play around the net if you are ever going to score that much. There's no way Nylander will want to mess his hair up let alone go to the net.