Milan90
Registered User
I don't think Dion should make it due to the amount of high quality defensemen that Canada has. It'd be nice to hear his name in the conversation though.
Why not Dion in Sochi?
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achtungbaby
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Bluelines
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There are 3 guys on the Habs alone that are better defensively than Subban. To say he is equal or better than Dion is a bit silly.
Sometimes people get points because of the situations they are put in not because they are supremely gifted offensively, Kulie a few years back comes to mind as one example, Subban can score yes but if you look at Subban objectively what other options do the Habs have?
Mess
Global Moderator
Not making Team Canada may in fact help Nonis in contract talks via leverage and comparable players.
Vice versa Phaneuf would gain advantage if he were to be named to the team for the same reasons.
the under rating of players on other teams and the over rating of players on your own team is sickening IMO....please. The entire hockey world recognizes PK Subban as one of the best up and coming defencemen in hockey. I dont like him..I absolutely loathe the Habs but seriously man....why embarrass yourself?
Just because Leaf fans think their captain is a top defenceman in this league who deserves Norris consideration...it doesnt make it true. Why don't you stick to pumping Kessel's tires or something. At least the guy is the real deal.
dion's played great for us this season but he should not be considered due to his immobility. team canada would want to load up on 2 way Dmen that excel in both areas of O and D, dion doesn't have that any more as he gets older and slower. he still gets PP time but we rarely see him shoot from the point any more and score, he seems more reluctant to be the distributor, that and his shots usually get blocked.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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heh. this always makes me laugh, cuz it's the exact opposite of the truth.
Case Study: Francois Beauchemin
Bluelines
Python FTW!
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LOL, kiddies with keyboard skills make me chuckle.
PK was rarely used in defensive situations last year, his coach even said it himself he has Dmen that are better suited for those shut down roles than PK. Hab fans will tell you the same thing. Its not that I'm underrating PK at all, its a fact PK is sheltered away from situations where he has to play shutdown role. So if PK is sheltered away from a defensive role how can he be as good or better than a guy who plays at an elite level as a shut down dman vs the best players in the league.
Maybe watch a few Hab games for yourself to get some perspective before you go on a childish rant next time. Some of us actually want to have mature conversations.
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I think the Team Canada selection committee should incl. Dion because he was part of the greatest world junior team of all time, with many of these same players(Crosby, Weber, Perry, Seabrook, Getzlaf, Carter, Richards,Bergeron) all vying for spots on the Sochi roster. This 2005 team outscored their opponents 47-6(aprox.) and were incredibly talented. Wouldn't it make sense to use players who worked wonders back then to try and win it all? If we had the nucleus of the 2005 squad, complimented by elder statesmen( Nash, Boyle, Staal, Thornton ,Stombone1) and newer talents from later years of Team Canada WJC success ( Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Doughty , Pietrangelo, Hall), we could beat anyone, anyday. This is the last chance we have to fully utilize the talents of the legendary 2005 squad, as the majority of them will be on the back 9's of their careers by 2018. Put Phaneuf in Sochi, and let younger players( post 1988) take the reins for then
Perhaps you should look at PK's career before Therrien before you make "childish" comments.
Before Therrien came to Montreal, Subban was averaging more PK minutes than Dion Phaneuf. More minutes on the 2nd ranked PK in the NHL. Under Jacque Martin, PK Subban was on the first D pairing on PKs. Those are years where Price was NOT stellar.
This year Price has been out of this world good and that's one of the biggest reasons the penalty kill is so good. You see Diaz on the PK flailing away like a fish out of water. Bouillon is constantly out of position, always loses his man. Yet Subban is on the bench.
Therrien is a terrible coach when it comes to player management and tactics. He's a great motivator. Therrien is the Sam Mitchell of Hockey. 3-4 losses can be attributed DIRECTLY to Therrien's mistakes in the last 10 games.
Bluelines
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Which year was Price not stellar? 2010-2011 when he had 38 wins and a sv% of .923, which was the best year of his career or 2011-2012 - 26 wins and a .916 sv%, which was his 2nd best year of his career.
I'm sure Martins system had NOTHING to do with their 2nd ranked PK, remind me why this defensive specialist is not on the PK now?
Diatomic
Mitch Matthewlander
- The same reason Francis Bouillion (a team leading -10) is on the ice in critical moments of the game.
- The same reason why the 4th line is put on the ice for 4 consecutive games in crucial moments when the opposition scored the go-ahead goal, or in late stages in the 3rd period in a tie game or a 1 goal game and lost every single game.
- The same reason down 1 goal with less than 1 minute left in the 3rd period, Subban, Markov, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Eller were ALL on the bench.
Therrien is a terrible coach!
Obviously I don't expect you to watch every single Habs game. If you did, then I wouldn't have to point out the above. If you did follow the Habs, you wouldn't post ignorant trash like PK's minutes are sheltered because he's a sub-par defensive player.
The Podium
Registered User
Posted this in another thread.
Phaneuf
GF On/60 - 3.05
GA On/60 - 1.36
Subban
GF On/60 - 2.93
GA On/60 - 2.05
The Leafs give up less goals and score more when Phaneufs on the ice than Montreal does when Subbans on the ice.
Relative to the team
TOR
GF/60 - 2.3
GA/60 - 2.0
So with Phaneuf on ice Toronto scores 0.75 more goals and get scored on by 0.64 less goals per 60 minutes
MTL
GF/60 - 1.9
GA/60 - 1.8
With Subban on the ice, Montreal scores 1.03 more goals and gets scored on by 0.25 more goals per 60
Just for reference
Chara
GF On/60 - 1.71
GA On/60 - 2.00
Pietrangelo
GF On/60 - 3.05
GA On/60 - 1.98
Weber
GF On/60 - 1.64
GA On/60 - 2.73
All teams have scored less and had more goals against them when these respetive players were on the ice versus when Phaneuf was on for Toronto
Then you should be reading different books.
Therrien is a great motivator and can develop young players (no doubt there).
But when he already has an established NORRIS winning star defenseman in Subban, instead of trying to reign him in. Let him play.
Subban has proved that he's already sound defensively even on the PK prior to Therrien, there's no need for him to prove it again to Therrien.
Therrien's use of George Parros lead DIRECTLY to 4 losses for the Habs. Even the Avalanche game where Therrien called out Subban, Parros was on the ice for the critical goal when his ass should have been in the pressbox. Same with Minnesota, St Louis and Ottawa.
Parros shouldn't be playing against western conference teams. He's on the team to play the Leafs, Bruins and Senators.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I may be reading it incorrectly.
Statistically Phaneuf is also BETTER than Chara and Weber?
The Podium
Registered User
I didnt check to see how there teams were performing, but more goals are scored for and less against when Phaneuf is on the ice than any of those D. Phaneuf has been playing THAT good this season. But really the stat is relative to the team. Comparison between Phaneuf and Subban is the closest, and it shows that while Subban has been marginally better offensively, Phaneuf has been substantially better defensively.
If you followed the Canadiens, you'd know that he won it DESPITE Therrien. The Habs won despite Therrien.
When he had to start coaching down the stretch, the Canadiens started losing. They completely exposed vs the Senators in the playoffs.
But based on the stats you posted in the post above it also shows that more goals are scored against Chara & Weber than their respective teams score on the opposition?
DD03
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You guys got out played and the goaltenders were completely different sides of the spectrum.How do you win a Norris despite your coach? That sounds hilarious.
Did you even watch the series prior to game 4?
DD03
3D
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Isn't that where the referees messed up the face-offs and you guys lost? This isn't the proper debate to have here.. Therrien helped Subban win the Norris, you can't say he didn't. Just like Therrien helped you guys get into the playoffs..
The Podium
Registered User
Yes, but it doesnt compare them relative to their team. This is the best means of comparison
TOR
GF/60 - 2.3
GA/60 - 2.0
So with Phaneuf on ice Toronto scores 0.75 more goals and get scored on by 0.64 less goals per 60 minutes
MTL
GF/60 - 1.9
GA/60 - 1.8
With Subban on the ice, Montreal scores 1.03 more goals and gets scored on by 0.25 more goals per 60
