Why is Oscar Klefbom so underrated?

[supeg93*]

I do not get it. People talk like he is a second pairing Dman. His stats show he is one of the best Dmen in the NHL.

He had a amazing year after continuing his great play from the year before he got injured.

IMO he is a top 10 Dman in the league and has one of the best contracts in the NHL (if not the best for a non rookie) all at the age of 23!

How many more years of dominate play does he have to produce to get mentioned among the elite? Is it the fact that he is a Oiler and there is massive hatred towards the fanbase?

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[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

1. He doesn't have eye opening PP point totals
2. He doesn't have a lot of hits or PIMs that gets fans excited
3. Fans want to believe Larsson is elite and carrying Klefbom instead of the other way around.

 

[BB88]

Consistency on defense is probably for me.

He's not one of the best D-men in the game but he's not some #4 either.

 

[Laineux]

McDavid's GAR though. Think what you want of the stat, but the separation is insane.

 

[JaegerDice]

Maybe because he's been playing on a team that's been better than dog-**** exactly one year in the last 10?

Same reason people still underrate OEL

Btw, you have a link to the GAR spreadsheet you screencapped?

 

[MessierII]

He's overrated by advanced stats guys who claim he's a Norris trophy caliber D man when he isn't. He's a good D man. A top pair D with sky high potential. He's not the best D man on the Oilers. Advanced stats guys constantly chime in that he's underrated when he's rated relatively appropriately. Larsson is the one who's underrated.

Fun fact GAR also shows Brian Campbell as being the Hawks best D man by a country mile.

 

[Spawn]

1. He doesn't have eye opening PP point totals
2. He doesn't have a lot of hits or PIMs that gets fans excited
3. Fans want to believe Larsson is elite and carrying Klefbom instead of the other way around.

Who the heck believes the 3rd point?

Anyways, there are two things that are keeping Klefbom from being a true #1 d-man.

1) He's too one dimensional in the offensive zone. He gets the puck and more often than not he's putting it on net. He needs to develop more dynamic decision making from the blue line in, knowing when to jump into an open spot or when to pass the puck.

2) He's too passive in the defensive zone. With his package of physical tools he can be much more aggressive. I don't mean more physical (although that is part of it), but more quick into the corners, or more quick to move the puck or more quick to cut time and space off an attacker.

It all boils down to his decision making. He improved on it this past season, if he continues to improve on it this upcoming season I think people will view him as a #1 d-man. He's not there yet.

 

[GoldenTicket]

He's overrated by advanced stats guys who claim he's a Norris trophy caliber D man when he isn't. He's a good D man. A top pair D with sky high potential. He's not the best D man on the Oilers. Advanced stats guys constantly chime in that he's underrated when he's rated relatively appropriately. Larsson is the one who's underrated.

This Oiler fan thinks he's our best dman and a legit #1. I'm a huge homer and biased on many fronts.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I do not get it. People talk like he is a second pairing Dman. His stats show he is one of the best Dmen in the NHL.

He had a amazing year after continuing his great play from the year before he got injured.

IMO he is a top 10 Dman in the league and has one of the best contracts in the NHL (if not the best for a non rookie) all at the age of 23!

How many more years of dominate play does he have to produce to get mentioned among the elite? Is it the fact that he is a Oiler and there is massive hatred towards the fanbase?

Because you overrate him, making you think people who rate him correctly are underrating him. Most people seem to think he is a top pairing guy anyway, not sure where you get the second pairing thing.

 

[supeg93*]

He's overrated by advanced stats guys who claim he's a Norris trophy caliber D man when he isn't. He's a good D man. A top pair D with sky high potential. He's not the best D man on the Oilers. Advanced stats guys constantly chime in that he's underrated when he's rated relatively appropriately. Larsson is the one who's underrated.

Fun fact GAR also shows Brian Campbell as being the Hawks best D man by a country mile.

Waitttttttt you think Larsson is better then Klefbom? You are a Oilers fan? You watched the games?

What in the hell.

 

[JaegerDice]

He's overrated by advanced stats guys who claim he's a Norris trophy caliber D man when he isn't. He's a good D man. A top pair D with sky high potential. He's not the best D man on the Oilers. Advanced stats guys constantly chime in that he's underrated when he's rated relatively appropriately. Larsson is the one who's underrated.

Fun fact GAR also shows Brian Campbell as being the Hawks best D man by a country mile.

1) Not by a country mile. Very close between he and Hjalmarsson.

2) Campbell was great last season, despite being handcuffed by a system that wouldnt allow him to skate the puck end to end.

3) He was no worse than the Blackhawks 3rd best D last season.

 

[MessierII]

Waitttttttt you think Larsson is better then Klefbom? You are a Oilers fan? You watched the games?

What in the hell.

Why do we outscore the opposition by such a substantial margin when Larsson is on the ice? Klefbom and Larsson both played the most 5 on 5 ice time on the team Larsson slightly more per game mostly together. Larsson was +21 Klefbom was +7.

 

[supeg93*]

Because you overrate him, making you think people who rate him correctly are underrating him. Most people seem to think he is a top pairing guy anyway, not sure where you get the second pairing thing.

Overrate? Stats seem to support it though.

He is underrated on these boards.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2216409

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2208057

Both polls he should win every single vote.

 

[supeg93*]

Why do we outscore the opposition by such a substantial margin when Larsson is on the ice? Klefbom and Larsson both played the most 5 on 5 ice time on the team Larsson slightly more per game mostly together. Larsson was +21 Klefbom was +7.

+/-?

Really?

 

[JaegerDice]

Klefbom is certainly better than Larsson at this point. Thats barely worthy of discussion.

 

[MessierII]

+/-?

Really?

Yeah let's talk about pretend "goals above replacement" over actual goals scored. +\- is just as useful as any stat when comparing teammates and used with context. I prefer goal % stats to any shot attempt metric because goals actually win and lose hockey games.

If Klefbom is so much better than Larsson offensively and defensively why are the Oilers ourscoring the opposition by a much higher margin when Larsson is on the ice? It's because Larsson is elite defensively while Klefbom is prone to massive goal causing mistakes too frequently.

 

[MessierII]

Klefbom is certainly better than Larsson at this point. Thats barely worthy of discussion.

So why don't the results support that at all?

 

[JaegerDice]

Yeah let's talk about pretend "goals above replacement" over actual goals scored. +\- is just as useful as any stat when comparing teammates and used with context. I prefer goal % stats to any shot attempt metric because goals actually win and lose hockey games.

If Klefbom is so much better than Larsson offensively and defensively why are the Oilers ourscoring the opposition by a much higher margin when Larsson is on the ice? It's because Larsson is elite defensively while Klefbom is prone to massive goal causing mistakes too frequently.

Goals are infrequent and highly luck influenced. They are terrible as data points to use beyond descriptive purposes. They are useless as far as reliability or predictive value.

Thats why GAR and xGF routinely outperform previous GF% as far as predicting future performance. You always want to go for the higher volume, least luck influenced data points, like shots and shot attempts.

A player cannot control their ish%, osh% or osv%. They can reliably control their raw output toward the opponents net, and the opponents raw output toward their own net. This is the real measure of performance and impact.

 

[voxel]

Same reason Jeff Petry was considered garbage before. Nobody out east watched him.

 

[KlefDown]

Yeah let's talk about pretend "goals above replacement" over actual goals scored. +\- is just as useful as any stat when comparing teammates and used with context. I prefer goal % stats to any shot attempt metric because goals actually win and lose hockey games.

If Klefbom is so much better than Larsson offensively and defensively why are the Oilers ourscoring the opposition by a much higher margin when Larsson is on the ice? It's because Larsson is elite defensively while Klefbom is prone to massive goal causing mistakes too frequently.

Are you even watching Klefbom/Oliers games?
Literally nothing you said is true.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

most overrated player ive ever seen, more than Toews

 

[MessierII]

Are you even watching Klefbom/Oliers games?
Literally nothing you said is true.

Yes Klefbom gift wraps the opposition a goal every 3rd game or so it's his biggest flaw as a player currently.

 

[Fig]

TL;DR

Klefbom = Good, but not a true 1D (yet).
Gar = garbage


GAR is a crap stat and extremely poor to use to compare across teams. My understanding is that it explains how valuable to a team a player is.

The above chart to me only says Edmonton leans on CMD, Draisaitl and Klefbom heavily for production.

Klefbom is good. Great contract, solid #2D capable of being a 1D, but anyone trying use GAR to say he's an elite #1D now, then tries to rely on him to achieve that, is not going to have a great time. Top 10 in league? Come on.

 

[JPeeper]

Ah yes, another thread with GAR.

This will end well.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

He's not top-10 in the world.

Heck, he's arguably not even top-10 among Swedish defencemen.