Why is no one talking Kadri?

[RLF]

LOL.



Exactly. When it was our turn to pick we certainly made the right choice.

He was definitely the right pick. Although Ryan Ellis would have been a sweet choice as well.

 

[Leaf4Life]

Not ones with his skillset that skate better than he does with better lower body strength. He went 6th overall, if he's a better skater he's challenging top 3.

You overestimate the growth offseason training can provide on something like skating. They're minor improvements and we've seen some with him.

You seem to be missing my very basic point on Kadri.

He went 7th with skating issues and strength question. So if he removes those, does he go higher? Absolutely.

Firstly, don't backtrack on your previous statement. I said "#1C's get drafted after 7th all the time" and you said "Not ones with his skillset than skate better than he does with better lower body strength."

You're statement is completely WRONG as I showed you several examples proving otherwise.

Secondly, you're missing the simple point that I'm talking about improvement AFTER getting drafted, not before.

Again, there are many players who got picked lower than Kadri and still turned out to be better overall players!

Lastly, I'm not debating whether or not Kadri would've been drafted higher if he had improved on his key weaknesses prior to the draft, that's just stating the obvious lol.

 

[The Apologist]

Ya and the kadri fans turned out to be the ones that got it right.

Only in their warped little minds where we all suddenly forget Nazem isn't an epic elite level 1c and that no, they didn't always believe he was a 3c.

But other than yhat yes they totally got it right.

 

[Gallagbi]

Firstly, don't backtrack on your previous statement. I said "#1C's get drafted after 7th all the time" and you said "Not ones with his skillset than skate better than he does with better lower body strength."

I'm not backtracking at all. What do you think made him the 7th overall pick? His skillset. If that was better, would he go higher or lower? It's simple.

Some players develop later. Given his skillset at the time, being a better skater makes him a higher pick.

Shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.

Secondly, you're missing the simple point that I'm talking about improvement AFTER getting drafted, not before.

I addressed that in my first (maybe second) time quoting you.

Improving skating at a later age is extremely difficult. Everyone skates in the summer and works to improve. You develop skating significantly in your youth and these guys have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in the ice.

Most skating advances are strength related To this point. You can tweak things, but don't expect significant improvement.

Again, there are many players who got picked lower than Kadri and still turned out to be better overall players!

Nobody says otherwise.

Lastly, I'm not debating whether or not Kadri would've been drafted higher if he had improved on his key weaknesses prior to the draft, that's just stating the obvious lol.

Which is so weird that you've struggle to just say "yeah" and move on

 

[Gallagbi]

Only in their warped little minds where we all suddenly forget Nazem isn't an epic elite level 1c and that no, they didn't always believe he was a 3c.

But other than yhat yes they totally got it right.

2C seemed to be the consensus with low-end #1C at certain points. Does 48 points (his pace last I saw) put him in #2C territory?

 

[1specter]

I'm not backtracking at all. What do you think made him the 7th overall pick? His skillset. If that was better, would he go higher or lower? It's simple.

Some players develop later. Given his skillset at the time, being a better skater makes him a higher pick.

Shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.


I addressed that in my first (maybe second) time quoting you.

Improving skating at a later age is extremely difficult. Everyone skates in the summer and works to improve. You develop skating significantly in your youth and these guys have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in the ice.

Most skating advances are strength related To this point. You can tweak things, but don't expect significant improvement.


Nobody says otherwise.


Which is so weird that you've struggle to just say "yeah" and move on

Dude's been changing goal posts non stop. All he had to do was just admit that he was wrong about saying Kadri doesn't care to improve but instead he's choosing to die on the hill of his own baseless speculation.

 

[Stephen]

I think most of us would be happy to trade anyone if it made sense for the team and at the same time, there's not one player who we'd want to trade for the sake of trading him. There's one poster though who wants to trade Kadri really bad, he's been going about Kadri for about 5 years now.

Yes I've posted in several Nylander threads. So what?

In a thread about a specific player, the idea of a trade usually comes up from time to time. Kadri's also a guy who has been with the organization for 9-10 years, 70% of them bad times, so there's going to be some historic negativity attached to him. And as we enter some very uncertain cap times, it's natural to want to find cap hits that you can get rid of to keep the shinier, new toys around.

 

[Leaf4Life]

I'm not backtracking at all. What do you think made him the 7th overall pick? His skillset. If that was better, would he go higher or lower? It's simple.

Why do you keep saying that over and over? That was NOT my point, never has been and I agree with you as you are STATING THE OBVIOUS as I already mentioned.

Some players develop later. Given his skillset at the time, being a better skater makes him a higher pick.

Shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.

Again (for the last time), why are you saying better skating PRIOR to draft? I'm talking about him improving his skating AFTER the draft.

I addressed that in my first (maybe second) time quoting you.

Improving skating at a later age is extremely difficult. Everyone skates in the summer and works to improve. You develop skating significantly in your youth and these guys have spent hundreds of thousands of hours in the ice.

Most skating advances are strength related To this point. You can tweak things, but don't expect significant improvement.

This I can agree to a certain degree. I never said it was easy but it's NOT impossible. You CAN work on speed and strength even at the age of 28.

Nobody says otherwise.

YOU DID. See my quote in my previous post, that is EXACTLY what you said... LOL

Which is so weird that you've struggle to just say "yeah" and move on

Same can be said of you.

 

[Gallagbi]

Why do you keep saying that over and over? That was NOT my point, never has been and I agree with you as you are STATING THE OBVIOUS as I already mentioned.



Again (for the last time), why are you saying better skating PRIOR to draft? I'm talking about him improving his skating AFTER the draft.



This I can agree to a certain degree. I never said it was easy but it's NOT impossible. You CAN work on speed and strength even at the age of 28.



YOU DID. See my quote in my previous post, that is EXACTLY what you said... LOL



Same can be said of you.

Good edit. If you don't get my point now, you never will. If you don't understand where I agree and clarified vs. contradicted (seems to be your current thought) then I can't help you.

 

[Leaf4Life]

Good edit. If you don't get my point now, you never will. If you don't understand where I agree and clarified vs. contradicted (seems to be your current thought) then I can't help you.

That makes two of us

 

[diceman934]

This feels like one of those examples of "create your own history" to suit one's argument, knowing no one has the time or energy to disprove it.

This is very much at odds with my experience. Most people nothing'd Bozak, until Kadri-haters would prop him up to put Kadri down.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Gallagbi]

They also started with people who liked Kadri trashing Bozak and complaining about how he played with Kessel. This was hardly a one sided affair.

The Bozak with Kessel debates started well before Kadri was around. People wanted him off that top line 2-3 years before Kadri was a regular NHLer.

They certainly continued with Kadri, but it seemed a lot of people never liked him there and were willing to try other centres. Kadri just became the best internal option to replace him

 

[Pookie]

Of course, but there's no evidence yet of a true decline, Kadri's still got strong shot and scoring chance numbers.

I guess if you keep your eyes closed... you can’t see it... so it doesn’t happen?

Funny that the guy who liked your post predicted a 26% decline in production over the remaining contract years.

I guess with “no evidence”

 

[The Apologist]

2C seemed to be the consensus with low-end #1C at certain points. Does 48 points (his pace last I saw) put him in #2C territory?

Only after it became clear that his lockout season was never going to be repeated.
Anyway, not gonna hash out this old battle again. Grown way too tired of it.

 

[ULF_55]

I agree with this below:

Generally speaking that's true. But I also agree with this post below (which is to say that it's way too early to even think about selling Kadri).

Of course the trick is to know/intuit, before everyone else, if the stock is going up or down.

Once everyone knows you've already leveled the playing field and lost your advantage.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

One can hope? It's not like it's impossible... He just needs to put in the work. But I hear you.. It doesn't seem he has the drive to improve.

you can hope, but he had these same weaknesses when he was 21

 

[Gary Nylund]

In a thread about a specific player, the idea of a trade usually comes up from time to time. Kadri's also a guy who has been with the organization for 9-10 years, 70% of them bad times, so there's going to be some historic negativity attached to him. And as we enter some very uncertain cap times, it's natural to want to find cap hits that you can get rid of to keep the shinier, new toys around.

HIstoric negativity - Kadri and Gardiner have been here the longest and I have no negativity against either one of them.

If we need to get rid of cap hits, there are several players I'd be looking at before Kadri. We're so perfectly set at centre for the next few years, trade Kadri and that's no longer the case. Makes no sense. If he's gone, who's our #3C?

Of course the trick is to know/intuit, before everyone else, if the stock is going up or down.

Once everyone knows you've already leveled the playing field and lost your advantage.

Yea and hopefully our team will do a good job of making those judgements. I suspect Kadri will be here until at least the 2021 TDL myself. Off the top of my head, I'd say the odds of him going before then are no more than 10% or so.

 

[Gary Nylund]

you can hope, but he had these same weaknesses when he was 21

Focusing on whatever you believe are his weaknesses instead of looking at the whole makes no sense,. why would you do that? Is that how you assess players, look at only what you perceive to be their weaknesses and ignore everything else?

Me, I like to look at the whole package and over the last three seasons, Kadri's played fantastic and over the last two seasons, he's produced points at a low end #1C level which is even more impressive when you consider his usage during that time. He has come a very long way since he was 21, if you don't understand that no offence but you don't understand what you're talking about.

 

[Bluelines]

I guess if you keep your eyes closed... you can’t see it... so it doesn’t happen?

Funny that the guy who liked your post predicted a 26% decline in production over the remaining contract years.

I guess with “no evidence”

So what do we do with "old" man Kadri?

 

[Gallagbi]

Only after it became clear that his lockout season was never going to be repeated.
Anyway, not gonna hash out this old battle again. Grown way too tired of it.

Seems like you were up for it yesterday, why the change of heart?

 

[Pookie]

So what do we do with "old" man Kadri?

Well I think we are ok for this season.

Babcock has mitigated his decline with sheltered minutes and making him stand still on the PP. if the puck hits him, he can pick up a couple of secondary assists.

But after this season, I agree with @diceman934 , it’s too much for a 3c

 

[Bluelines]

Well I think we are ok for this season.

Babcock has mitigated his decline with sheltered minutes and making him stand still on the PP. if the puck hits him, he can pick up a couple of secondary assists.

But after this season, I agree with @diceman934 , it’s too much for a 3c

Maybe he goes away and then comes back as a Director of Player Development?

 

[RLF]

Maybe he goes away and then comes back as a Director of Player Development?

lol...or maybe an Anger Management Consultant

 

[Gary Nylund]

lol...or maybe an Anger Management Consultant

Makes sense. Let's hope that seeking help catches on.

 

[Bluelines]

lol...or maybe an Anger Management Consultant

... He does have experience with Anger... would be a good fit.... WOOSAH.....