Why is it so Hard to Make a Trade?

[arttk]

Right. Hide behind all of the "advanced" stats that you want, I'll stick to the more time-tested ones and the all-important eye-test. I see Garrison and I see a guy who's not particularly skilled, I see a guy that doesn't hit anybody, I see a guy that's not a very good skater, I see a guy that gives it away a lot in his own end. On the PP, I see a guy who's nowhere near the presence that Salo was/is.

But hey, he's got a great corsi score, so what the hell do I know, right?

I guess the question of why Florida wasn't compelled to bring him back isn't something that's discussed around here?

Yeah, it's obvious you don't know anything. At least you got that part right.

Florida wanted him back but he didn't wanted to be in Florida.

 

[King of the ES*]

It's amusing that you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that other top players score less with him on the ice and that he allows the fewest goals against while on the ice of all his teammates whichever team he plays for, whether it be the Panthers or the Canucks. Has he just been really lucky for 3 years in a row now?

I'm not ignoring it - and I'm not saying that it's just a matter of luck. I do find it difficult to believe.

 

[King of the ES*]

Florida wanted him back but he didn't wanted to be in Florida.

If he was such a great shutdown d-man down there, you'd think that they'd maybe have the foresight to offer him an extension in 2011 - which Garrison certainly would've jumped all over, being a guy who basically just broke into the league (at 26, and undrafted).

 

[Tiranis]

I do find it difficult to believe.

You find something that's easily measured difficult to believe? The stats are right there and have been linked. As has been the proof of who he matches up against.

If he was such a great shutdown d-man down there, you'd think that they'd maybe have the foresight to offer him an extension in 2011 - which Garrison certainly would've jumped all over, being a guy who basically just broke into the league (at 26, and undrafted).

Because Florida is an example of a well managed franchise that always does the right thing? Their defense certainly seems to be suffering since he left, as is Campbell with his -19 plus-minus. Besides, they tried to sign him as early as a few months into the 11-12 season but his agent knew better and could see what his client was actually worth.

It would've been brain-dead to offer him extension in the off-season based on one year sample size and Garrison's agent wouldn't have any interest anyway as he had little to lose at the time. Once you get to 2 years though and now 2 years and a bit, on two different teams — that's a different story.

I'm not even sure what's there to discuss anymore. Garrison gets excellent results defensively, some of the best in the whole league in fact and was a highly sought after free agent, but you somehow believe that you're the one person that sees the truth?

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Garrison gets excellent results defensively, some of the best in the whole league in fact and was a highly sought after free agent, but you somehow believe that you're the one person that sees the truth?

That's just like, your opinion, man.

You trust those numbers? I take drunk Uncle's fool-proof eye test everyday of the week. Not a bunch of mumbo-jumbo numbers.

How long have goals for/goals against been considered an advanced stat around here? This place has really let itself go.

 

[me2]

Right. Hide behind all of the "advanced" stats that you want, I'll stick to the more time-tested ones and the all-important eye-test. I see Garrison and I see a guy who's not particularly skilled, I see a guy that doesn't hit anybody, I see a guy that's not a very good skater, I see a guy that gives it away a lot in his own end. On the PP, I see a guy who's nowhere near the presence that Salo was/is.

But hey, he's got a great corsi score, so what the hell do I know, right?

I guess the question of why Florida wasn't compelled to bring him back isn't something that's discussed around here?

Don't let the fact Florida wanted him back slow you down.

 

[Karter]

I'd rather have him wait for as long as it takes if he's nervous about a trade than shoot from the hip.

The guy knows what he's doing.

Some of you guys really need closure on the Hodgeson deal.

 

[Buffalo In A Carwash]

Right. Hide behind all of the "advanced" stats that you want, I'll stick to the more time-tested ones and the all-important eye-test. I see Garrison and I see a guy who's not particularly skilled, I see a guy that doesn't hit anybody, I see a guy that's not a very good skater, I see a guy that gives it away a lot in his own end. On the PP, I see a guy who's nowhere near the presence that Salo was/is.

But hey, he's got a great corsi score, so what the hell do I know, right?

I guess the question of why Florida wasn't compelled to bring him back isn't something that's discussed around here?

I didn't hide behind, or even mention advanced stats, so check who you're accusing first.

And to me, Garrison passes the biggest test of all. The everything test.

Advanced stats, regular stats, the eye test.. Everything I see shows me a top 4 D who is worth his contract.

Time will tell if he really is, but he's looking that way to me.

 

[RobertKron]

Right. Hide behind all of the "advanced" stats that you want, I'll stick to the more time-tested ones and the all-important eye-test. I see Garrison and I see a guy who's not particularly skilled, I see a guy that doesn't hit anybody, I see a guy that's not a very good skater, I see a guy that gives it away a lot in his own end. On the PP, I see a guy who's nowhere near the presence that Salo was/is.

But hey, he's got a great corsi score, so what the hell do I know, right?

I guess the question of why Florida wasn't compelled to bring him back isn't something that's discussed around here?

You also see a guy that gets scored on less than the other guys. So there's that.

 

[Derp Kassian]

If you really believed in the "eye test" you have to be blind to not see that Garrison bodies people on the boards, clears the front of the net and uses his stick like no other Canuck Dman.

 

[Zarpan]

Right. Hide behind all of the "advanced" stats that you want, I'll stick to the more time-tested ones and the all-important eye-test. I see Garrison and I see a guy who's not particularly skilled, I see a guy that doesn't hit anybody, I see a guy that's not a very good skater, I see a guy that gives it away a lot in his own end. On the PP, I see a guy who's nowhere near the presence that Salo was/is.

But hey, he's got a great corsi score, so what the hell do I know, right?

I guess the question of why Florida wasn't compelled to bring him back isn't something that's discussed around here?

The advanced stats don't agree with you, and nearly everyone else's eye-test doesn't agree with you.

There are times when advanced stats and popular opinion collide, and that makes for an interesting debate. When advanced stats and popular opinion are in very strong agreement (as in this case), that puts you way out on the fringe.

In a more extreme example, some people believe the earth is flat still, despite popular opinion and science and everything else pointing to it being round. There's no point in debating them though since nothing could ever change their mind.

 

[Zarpan]

If you check various sites too, Garrison was ranked anywhere from 2nd to 4th among free agent defenseman. Suter was #1, and the second grouping was Garrison, Schultz, and Carle, with the exact order dependent on the site.

 

[Lawzy]

Why is it so hard to make a trade? We don't have the pieces necessary to make a trade. Well that's not true, we aren't willing to move the pieces necessary to make a trade.

The reason I can't fathom the speculation of our interest in Iggy, Gaborik, etc. is because I can't think of any players I'd be willing to move to get them.

Iggy is a rental. Gaborik has a massive contract and is worth a lot.

So that brings to question what exactly we want to trade for. We obviously need a 3rd line center, a player such as Goc comes to mind. I can't imagine his price being too high.

Some say we need a winger for Kesler, but considering how hot Raymond and Hansen have been of late, I have high hopes.
Losing Booth hurts our depth but statistically he wasn't putting much in the net for us.
Don't get me wrong Booth looked great, but he was snake bitten. Our lineup is visible worse without him but it isn't statistically.

The only way I can see us getting an immediate upgrade without losing key players is something around a center for Lou. Grabo comes to mind.

If the market just isn't there, we'll have to look for depth centers (who unfortunately aren't going to fill the offensive hole we all see) unless we give up key players.


I still feel our lineup is a bit of chemistry away from being a contender, healthy that is. I would be okay with grabbing a player such as Goc and riding Schroeder on the wing.

 

[Taelin]

That's just like, your opinion, man.

You trust those numbers? I take drunk Uncle's fool-proof eye test everyday of the week. Not a bunch of mumbo-jumbo numbers.

How long have goals for/goals against been considered an advanced stat around here? This place has really let itself go.

Well, he passes the eye test with flying colours. Always in the right spot defensively, clears the crease, and is good on board battles. Not to mention that bomb of a shot; I'm sure Statsny hasn't forgotten that.

 

[Proto]

After the first 10 games, I think Garrison has been far and away the Canucks best defenseman. That's eye tested

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Garrison has been an outstanding addition.

 

[biturbo19]

Garrison has definitely come around and is looking good lately...

But i'm still reserving the 'he's totally worth every penny' fanaticism until:

a)he starts showing a better ability to hit the net than Fulton Reid (of The Might Ducks, fame).

and...

b)shows that he can be the same stalwart defensive presence away from Hamhuis. Basically, until i see Garrison demonstrate an ability to babysit Edler...the jury is still out for me to some extent. And i'm still worried about the footspeed issue if you get those two out there together.

Just as Bieksa only seems worth his $4.6M deal when he plays with Hamhuis and tends to look lost, confused, and often completely braindead apart from that pairing...i want to see that Garrison isn't the same before i proclaim this a 'great' deal.

 

[James Mirtle]

I think Garrison was one of the most underrated players in the league in Florida. Gillis knew what he was doing, and it had little to do with his point production.

 

[Pip]

Of all the players he decides to critique, it's Garrison?

wow, just wow. I would of understood Bieksa, also Edler to an extent, but Garrison, really?!?

wow

 

[Dado]

The reason I can't fathom the speculation of our interest in Iggy, Gaborik, etc. is because I can't think of any players I'd be willing to move to get them.

Iginla - great player, class act - but he's done. Yes, he can still be a meaningful part of a bad team, but on a contender, he's down to bit player level. In the old days, a team like the Rangers would no doubt through crap loads of money at him to get his "intangibles" - but these aren't the old days - and I bet Iginla proves to be as hard to move as Luongo.

That's my guess, anyway.

 

[struckmatch]

Iginla - great player, class act - but he's done. Yes, he can still be a meaningful part of a bad team, but on a contender, he's down to bit player level. In the old days, a team like the Rangers would no doubt through crap loads of money at him to get his "intangibles" - but these aren't the old days - and I bet Iginla proves to be as hard to move as Luongo.

That's my guess, anyway.

Iginla is not done by any stretch. He's just playing on a terrible team who has no chance of making the playoffs.

There is absolutely no way Iginla is as tough to move as Luongo. Not a chance. Are you forgetting the ridiculous contract that is attached to Luongo?

Iginla is a perfect addition for any team looking to make a cup run.

A motivated, proven, veteran goal scorer who is a great leader by example and shows up in big games (see gold medal game Canada vs. USA in 2002 and 2010) and various other playoff games.

Yeah, who would want that?

Wow.

 

[opendoor]

Iginla - great player, class act - but he's done. Yes, he can still be a meaningful part of a bad team, but on a contender, he's down to bit player level. In the old days, a team like the Rangers would no doubt through crap loads of money at him to get his "intangibles" - but these aren't the old days - and I bet Iginla proves to be as hard to move as Luongo.

That's my guess, anyway.

Seriously? No half decent pending UFA is hard to move if you're willing to accept what other teams will offer.

 

[opendoor]

b)shows that he can be the same stalwart defensive presence away from Hamhuis. Basically, until i see Garrison demonstrate an ability to babysit Edler...the jury is still out for me to some extent. And i'm still worried about the footspeed issue if you get those two out there together.

Just as Bieksa only seems worth his $4.6M deal when he plays with Hamhuis and tends to look lost, confused, and often completely braindead apart from that pairing...i want to see that Garrison isn't the same before i proclaim this a 'great' deal.

I think Garrison is helping Hamhuis just as much as he's being helped. Hamhuis has looked pretty bad at times this year (I think he's playing injured) and has only really looked like his normal self when paired with Garrison

Outside of the start of the year where he was recovering from an injury, getting used to a new system, and playing with Edler on his wrong side, Garrison has looked good with pretty much every partner he's played with.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Of all the players he decides to critique, it's Garrison?

wow, just wow. I would of understood Bieksa, also Edler to an extent, but Garrison, really?!?

wow

Garrison is our Ehrhoff replacement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

 

[King of the ES*]

Iginla - great player, class act - but he's done. Yes, he can still be a meaningful part of a bad team, but on a contender, he's down to bit player level. In the old days, a team like the Rangers would no doubt through crap loads of money at him to get his "intangibles" - but these aren't the old days - and I bet Iginla proves to be as hard to move as Luongo.

That's my guess, anyway.

WHAT?!?

You can't be serious. Any team that Jarome will waive his NTC for will offer Calgary something, and they'll get to choose which offer they feel is better, and/or play both sides against eachother to try and drive the price up even more.

Not the case with Luongo. There are already only a handful, max, of teams that might have interest in accommodating him, and I don't think any will be beating down Gillis' door over the next week.