Why is it so Hard to Make a Trade?

[Dado]

Seriously? No half decent pending UFA is hard to move if you're willing to accept what other teams will offer.

I agree, both Luongo and Iginla are easy to move if not much is being asked in return.

 

[Dado]

Any team that Jarome will waive his NTC for will offer Calgary something, and they'll get to choose which offer they feel is better, and/or play both sides against eachother to try and drive the price up even more.

Obviously. The point is that what will be offered will, IMO, be disappointing to Calgary fans. As Vancouver fans have been disappointed by the reports of what has supposedly been offered for Luongo.

"Difficult to move" doesn't mean "nobody wants" - it means "nobody wants to pay a lot".

 

[opendoor]

I agree, both Luongo and Iginla are easy to move if not much is being asked in return.

I think Iginla will garner a normal rental return (1st rounder and a decent to good prospect or two). He's not going to bring back anything amazing, but I don't think his value is particularly low either. He's still a 60-70 point player.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

this is crazy. if EHM 2007 taught me anything, it's that every GM wants to trade every player if you add enough unsigned prospects

 

[mrbitterguy]

okay, who can look at what pit has done this last week and say that trades are hard to make? shero can wheel 3 different very serviceable vets for a first, 2 seconds, a fifth, a d prospect and 2 college forwards, yet gillis can't find a 3rd line center? i'm beginning to think that he's just not a very good trader.

 

[ZenMaster*]

okay, who can look at what pit has done this last week and say that trades are hard to make? shero can wheel 3 different very serviceable vets for a first, 2 seconds, a fifth, a d prospect and 2 college forwards, yet gillis can't find a 3rd line center? i'm beginning to think that he's just not a very good trader.

There are 29 other teams in the league, just because you single out one doesn't mean its all of a sudden a breeze to make a trade, just ask Chiarelli.

Also this year the stars are aligned with Pittsburgh, they're healthy, look unbeatable and are will to bet the farm on the cup this year. On the flipside, It's quite a gamble if you don't win the cup, they have traded away significant picks in one of the deepest drafts since 2003 for mostly rentals.

 

[serge2k]

ugh.

Gillis sits around while the team has possible the worst center depth in the league while Pittsburgh stocks up on wingers.

 

[Tiranis]

ugh.

Gillis sits around while the team has possible the worst center depth in the league while Pittsburgh stocks up on wingers.

You seem to have noted the difference between the two situations yourself. It's not like there's centres getting traded left and right.

 

[serge2k]

You seem to have noted the difference between the two situations yourself. It's not like there's centres getting traded left and right.

Shero actually goes out and improves one of the elagues best teams.


Gillis can't even move Luongo.

 

[mrbitterguy]

Also this year the stars are aligned with Pittsburgh, they're healthy, look unbeatable and are will to bet the farm on the cup this year. On the flipside, It's quite a gamble if you don't win the cup, they have traded away significant picks in one of the deepest drafts since 2003 for mostly rentals.

the picks might hurt pit down the road, like 5 years from now, but the prospects they gave up don't seem like a devastating loss to organizational depth. point taken, but i'd take no draft this year for a cupboard full of goodies and a legit shot at the cup. my point is that there are deals to be made, if you sack up and make them. saying that deals are tough this season doesn't hold a lot of water when other teams are getting stuff done. that's some brian burke level of spin and cow manure.

 

[ZenMaster*]

the picks might hurt pit down the road, like 5 years from now, but the prospects they gave up don't seem like a devastating loss to organizational depth. point taken, but i'd take no draft this year for a cupboard full of goodies and a legit shot at the cup. my point is that there are deals to be made, if you sack up and make them. saying that deals are tough this season doesn't hold a lot of water when other teams are getting stuff done. that's some brian burke level of spin and cow manure.

Says the guy with absolutely zero NHL GM experience or even has any idea of what goes inside NHL management.


I'm not claiming that I do either, but I think rather not speculate on assumptions. Gillis in my opinion is being smart, there's a time to strike and make trades like Pittsburgh is doing and thats only if you're having a wildly successful regular season and your team is primed to win the cup again. I rather not make trades for just rentals and deplete the farm when half the team is injured and when a few players are having an off season.

 

[serge2k]

Says the guy with absolutely zero NHL GM experience or even has any idea of what goes inside NHL management.


I'm not claiming that I do either, but I think rather not speculate on assumptions. Gillis in my opinion is being smart, there's a time to strike and make trades like Pittsburgh is doing and thats only if you're having a wildly successful regular season and your team is primed to win the cup again. I rather not make trades for just rentals and deplete the farm when half the team is injured and when a few players are having an off season.

Why not just rebuild then?

Either way gillis should ****ing get something done. He's letting this team fall apart.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

How does pittsburgh have a rostrEr like that compared to a roster like ours and we both spend the same amount of money???


Shero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gillis.

 

[timw33]

How does pittsburgh have a rostrEr like that compared to a roster like ours and we both spend the same amount of money???


Shero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gillis.

By having 4 top 3 picks in a row......

 

[Bleach Clean]

Why not just rebuild then?

Either way gillis should ****ing get something done. He's letting this team fall apart.

Letting the team get injured?

At the very least, a centre will be brought in. Probably a depth C. Is that really going to change your opinion either way?

IMO, Gillis is doing the smart thing by being patient and looking for less drastic moves. It's the proper course of action.

 

[Bleach Clean]

How does pittsburgh have a rostrEr like that compared to a roster like ours and we both spend the same amount of money???


Shero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gillis.

For one, PIT has a cheaper Defense, allowing more money to be spent at forward. For another, they loaded up this year by dealing picks. The difference in their roster now is actually picks in rental player form. Gillis still has all of his picks. I'm sure if he loaded up, you would see similar strength at forward. But he's smarter than that, and will avoid doing so.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Shero isn't scared Gillis is way too conservative.. Hurry up and make a move.

 

[604]

For one, PIT has a cheaper Defense, allowing more money to be spent at forward. For another, they loaded up this year by dealing picks. The difference in their roster now is actually picks in rental player form. Gillis still has all of his picks. I'm sure if he loaded up, you would see similar strength at forward. But he's smarter than that, and will avoid doing so.

Honest question. What do you see us saving our picks for? Do you see us being in a better position to contend for the Cup in three to five years then we are this year?

 

[croatNUCKS]

Shero isn't scared Gillis is way too conservative.. Hurry up and make a move.

in this work, no place to hurry

one wrong move and destroy franchise


Nemo sapiens,nisi patiens - patience is the mother of wisdom

 

[MikeK]

How does pittsburgh have a rostrEr like that compared to a roster like ours and we both spend the same amount of money???


Shero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gillis.

By having 4 top 3 picks in a row......

They also don't have $9.3m invested in goalies. Every game we have $5M sitting on the bench never touching the ice. We also have 2 bad acquisitions eating up another $8.5M in Ballard and Booth. When you really look at it we have a total of $13.8M of wasted cap space. That $13.8M is the equivalent to 2 Iginla's. How would this team look if it had 2 Iginla type players instead of a 6th Dman playing wing on the 3rd-4th line, a Salo 2.0, and a $5M backup? Sad but true.

 

[Pip]

making a move is not necessarily the best thing for this team, especially if the prices are high for rentals.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Honest question. What do you see us saving our picks for? Do you see us being in a better position to contend for the Cup in three to five years then we are this year?

It's about frequency of contention, not max roster utility in a given year. That's what makes a champion (usually, the CHI load up year being the exception). More chances to compete. And the more you stay in the hunt, the better your chances are.

I know people are going to hate when Gillis says there's "no window" and advocates a long-term approach, but this guy knows what he's doing. He's figured out what only the best GMs know. That the "load up" strategy is often a losing one, and that the true threats for the cup are the ones that consistently remain a factor in the playoffs. Sooner or later, such a team has the breaks go their way and they cash. Meaning, frequency is king.

The best way to maintain frequency is a constant influx of talent through the pipeline. That means keeping 1st round picks. This is all about the long-term, which is in direct conflict with the "Sedin window" methodology many believe here. They are great players, but the franchise is not beholden to them. There must be a competitive team beyond them, to keep VAN in the hunt, and that's what Gillis is laying the ground work for.

The first tell-tale sign of this is Schneider over Luongo. It hasn't happened yet, but I believe Luongo is still the one that's going to be dealt. Which means that Gillis is potentially forgoing a greater return by dealing Schneider in order to ensure the longevity of Canucks competitiveness. An "all-in" strategy would purport the opposite, where Schneider should be dealt to load up this year, regardless of Luongo's age. This is frequency 101. This is why I believe Lu is dealt regardless. This is why I believe that Gillis values his 1sts more than people think he should.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

This is why I believe that Gillis values his 1sts more than people think he should.

Gillis has traded his 1st rd pick before and has probably traded as many draft picks as any other GM in the league since his arrival. If 'frequency 101' is all about keeping picks, why has Gillis moved so many?

I expect Gillis to continue looking for veteran talent leading up to the deadline.

 

[MikeK]

Gillis has traded his 1st rd pick before and has probably traded as many draft picks as any other GM in the league since his arrival. If 'frequency 101' is all about keeping picks, why has Gillis moved so many?

I expect Gillis to continue looking for veteran talent leading up to the deadline.

After the failed Ballard deal I don't think GMMG is as willing to part with a first as you might think. This team isn't getting any younger and we don't have much coming up who will be able to replace some of our aging core players. I think Gillis is always looking but times are changing in Van. I see them starting to shift into full on development stage very soon.

 

[TheRealAlanVigneault]

i think the trade deadline is going to pretty intense this year. Most of the elite teams around the league are trying to add all of the final pieces to become true cup contenders (Pitt). Question is whether MG is willing to make the right moves to help this team become one of those real contenders (getting a top 6 forward)