Why does Kessel have the same rating as Malkin??

[SammyTheBull]

Crosby 9A
Ovechkin 9A
Malkin 9B
Kessel 9F

 

[Slitty]

Why is this even a thread? It's obviously a botch.

Also, again- why is Malkin already being mentioned in the same breath as Ovechkin and Crosby? Wake me up when he scores 100 pts or wins a Selke. He has his own hurdles to clear.

Yes... so by your logic if Ovechkin decided to play in Japan (letsay he loves sushi) instead of comming over to the NHL this past year he would be a crap player who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance as Crosby. Sorry mate, but your and the general logic of people who discredit Malkin is flawed. A player is the same quality of player regardless of which league he plays in. Someone making the jump from the ECHL to the NHL doesn't automatically make them better nor would Gretzky be any worse in his prime if he decided to play a few games in a local beer league.

 

[dafoomie]

No way.

First Malkin has a tremendous all around game, Kessel is a one way puck hog. Kessel has outstanding speed and finishing ability but he's not going to be looked at like a franchise player. He'll at best, be a second tier star IE: Not a 1A franchise player ALA a Crosby/Phanuef/Malkin.


and competition wise Russia >>>> NCAA, and Malkin has dominated Russia.

Is it Kessel's fault that he plays in the NCAA and not Russia? Is it Kessel's fault that he's an 18 year old freshman while Malkin is a 20 year old 3rd year pro? Malkin's game is much more developed at this stage, Kessel is still very raw.

Give him more than 1 year in the NCAA before you dismiss him as simply a one dimensional puck hog and a 2nd tier star.

Malkin is as close to a sure thing as there is outside the NHL, but I still don't think he's a Gretzky or a Lemieux.

 

[Crosbyfan]

No. I don't know what I'm talking about, obviously.

To say his ceiling is that of two of the better players in NHL HISTORY is more or less Pejorative Slured.

For now, I'd say his ceiling is that of a Fedorov like player. Maybe a tiny bit better. But Fedorov was a machine in his prime years and I honestly doubt Malkin is ever as good as he was.

Is it Pejorative Slured to say he is unlikely be better than Beliveau on offence but could plausibly be as good given favourable circumstances, hard work, good coaching etc.?

Is it Pejorative Slured to say he is unlikely be better than Gainey defensively but could plausibly be as good given favourable circumstances, hard work, good coaching etc.?

If you say his ceiling is Fedorov, what is your reasonable expectation? You are basically saying that it is somewhat unlikely but plausible under favourable circumstances for him to match Fedorov. I think many expect him to exceed Fedorov, although it obviously wouldn't be a huge disappointment if he has a similar career.

 

[66-30-33]

Is it Kessel's fault that he plays in the NCAA and not Russia? Is it Kessel's fault that he's an 18 year old freshman while Malkin is a 20 year old 3rd year pro? Malkin's game is much more developed at this stage, Kessel is still very raw.

Give him more than 1 year in the NCAA before you dismiss him as simply a one dimensional puck hog and a 2nd tier star.

Malkin is as close to a sure thing as there is outside the NHL, but I still don't think he's a Gretzky or a Lemieux.

What about this? Kessel=Crosby in terms of no pro games (well actually Kessel has played in theworld championship with NHLers) and Malkin=Ovechkin in terms of pro games. I'm not saying Kessel will be Crosby but they both lacked pro games when they were drafted and a player like Malkin (Ovechkin) had alot of pro expierence under his belt and 2 years older. That said, Kessel still wont be as good anyway.

 

[Marchy79]

Hey guys, gonna chime in with my thoughts on the Kessel *** kissing Iève been watching for a bit now.

First off, the guy who said that Kessel is better than Crosby (or CAN be) must not be that serious of a hockey fan.

I dont think you realize how good that record was that Crosby broke was... or just how hard of a worker he is. heès incredible. YOU KNOW youère watching a Franchise player when youère watching Sid. Very few players offer the same high level hockey game as Sid Crosby. VERY FEW.

Weève been very fortunate to see a few pass by over the past few years...
I have seen Kessel perform, and Ive also seen poor games from Phil as well.

A great question from me to you... Has Phil ever carried players like Sidney has

Answer: Hell no. Never. Not in this lifetime (as of yet).
Phil wasnt even the best player on his team. offense wise, and was not effective enough to even garner first line minutes in the NCAA this year. Say what you like, but prospects make their own luck in these circumstances.

Sid weève seen since he was a tyke, he led Rimouski all by himself, and nearly carried them to the most prestigious amateur trophy in Canada (before finally being stopped in the final game by a LEGENDARY London team, that broke MANY records that year).

Look at Pittsburgh last year... How many times was he Pittsburghès best player...

How many times was HE the one calling the shots AT 18... Because people respect him... He knows exactly what he wants... when he wants... completely respectful, yet also completely knows what he wants... the temperment of a professional...

Kessel was the diamond jewel to the American Junior disappointing Gold Medal favourites. He was expected to help make the States major contenders for a gold medal... Nope. What did they get... One goal. 1 GOAL... say it with me now... ONE GOAL. He was not dominating, he wasnt making those around him better (in fact it was he getting the passing due to his notorious fame of being such a high end bluechip prospect)...

I believe we are harsh typically in comparing because we draw strengths to weaknesses...
Let me tell you guys what I see in Kessel, and why he slipped...
I believe Phil Kessel will be a poor mans Brett Hull (honestly). Reason... hes a shooter, but he doesnt bury it like the golden brett did. hes flashy, but completely inconsistent... and those not seeing him hog the puck from time to time (a la sniper) are kidding themselves.

He does not have a pure offensive vision... he has the talents... but no brains. He doesnt think the game well... which to answer any question as to why he slipped, and why he went from compared to Crosby (which was to lower the hype on the draft field of last year, and get excited over this past years) to # 5 selection. Those who dont believe me... or this post, only have to look at recent memory to see that Spezza was in a similar situation... all I ask is where did he fall to in his draft year... the same speculation... the same hype... similar in the sense that he underperformed in his draft year... If you guessed # 2... youèd be correct. Dropping 5 spots... thatès not favourable... it sometimes means scouts found something that is not good there... A chip in his armour... And let me say, Malkin and Ovechkin have been compared since the year prior to their draft... neither one of them had the same discussions since...

All of this in consideration... and to be honest, Kessel has a hard time cracking my top 10 prospects around the NHL... Heès going to be good... However heès NOT going to be great... Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin will be.
now taking the 4 guys drafted in front of him, and add in 2 strong prospects,and you see how easily Kessel falls out of the top 10...

To be very blunt... to ensure his high end status... Kessel needs a rebound performance this year...

Now obviously people will outright disagree with my views, please understand its not my intention to burn Kessel... just debate with some fine hockey fans such as yourselves

 

[Dempsey]

Yes... so by your logic if Ovechkin decided to play in Japan (letsay he loves sushi) instead of comming over to the NHL this past year he would be a crap player who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance as Crosby.

Who said Malkin is a crap player?

 

[crosby_87]

No. I don't know what I'm talking about, obviously.

To say his ceiling is that of two of the better players in NHL HISTORY is more or less Pejorative Slured.

For now, I'd say his ceiling is that of a Fedorov like player. Maybe a tiny bit better. But Fedorov was a machine in his prime years and I honestly doubt Malkin is ever as good as he was.

Oh so it's Pejorative Slured to say that before Malkin has ever set foot in the NHL.

Then why isn't it Pejorative Slured to say "Kessel being called the greatest american born player ever is laughable" before he has ever set foot in the NHL. You completely go against yourself and how you got pissed at me and called my post laughable.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Hey guys, gonna chime in with my thoughts on the Kessel *** kissing Iève been watching for a bit now.

First off, the guy who said that Kessel is better than Crosby (or CAN be) must not be that serious of a hockey fan.

I dont think you realize how good that record was that Crosby broke was... or just how hard of a worker he is. heès incredible. YOU KNOW youère watching a Franchise player when youère watching Sid. Very few players offer the same high level hockey game as Sid Crosby. VERY FEW.

Weève been very fortunate to see a few pass by over the past few years...
I have seen Kessel perform, and Ive also seen poor games from Phil as well.

A great question from me to you... Has Phil ever carried players like Sidney has

Answer: Hell no. Never. Not in this lifetime (as of yet).
Phil wasnt even the best player on his team. offense wise, and was not effective enough to even garner first line minutes in the NCAA this year. Say what you like, but prospects make their own luck in these circumstances.

Sid weève seen since he was a tyke, he led Rimouski all by himself, and nearly carried them to the most prestigious amateur trophy in Canada (before finally being stopped in the final game by a LEGENDARY London team, that broke MANY records that year).

Look at Pittsburgh last year... How many times was he Pittsburghès best player...

How many times was HE the one calling the shots AT 18... Because people respect him... He knows exactly what he wants... when he wants... completely respectful, yet also completely knows what he wants... the temperment of a professional...

Kessel was the diamond jewel to the American Junior disappointing Gold Medal favourites. He was expected to help make the States major contenders for a gold medal... Nope. What did they get... One goal. 1 GOAL... say it with me now... ONE GOAL. He was not dominating, he wasnt making those around him better (in fact it was he getting the passing due to his notorious fame of being such a high end bluechip prospect)...

I believe we are harsh typically in comparing because we draw strengths to weaknesses...
Let me tell you guys what I see in Kessel, and why he slipped...
I believe Phil Kessel will be a poor mans Brett Hull (honestly). Reason... hes a shooter, but he doesnt bury it like the golden brett did. hes flashy, but completely inconsistent... and those not seeing him hog the puck from time to time (a la sniper) are kidding themselves.

He does not have a pure offensive vision... he has the talents... but no brains. He doesnt think the game well... which to answer any question as to why he slipped, and why he went from compared to Crosby (which was to lower the hype on the draft field of last year, and get excited over this past years) to # 5 selection. Those who dont believe me... or this post, only have to look at recent memory to see that Spezza was in a similar situation... all I ask is where did he fall to in his draft year... the same speculation... the same hype... similar in the sense that he underperformed in his draft year... If you guessed # 2... youèd be correct. Dropping 5 spots... thatès not favourable... it sometimes means scouts found something that is not good there... A chip in his armour... And let me say, Malkin and Ovechkin have been compared since the year prior to their draft... neither one of them had the same discussions since...

All of this in consideration... and to be honest, Kessel has a hard time cracking my top 10 prospects around the NHL... Heès going to be good... However heès NOT going to be great... Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin will be.
now taking the 4 guys drafted in front of him, and add in 2 strong prospects,and you see how easily Kessel falls out of the top 10...

To be very blunt... to ensure his high end status... Kessel needs a rebound performance this year...

Now obviously people will outright disagree with my views, please understand its not my intention to burn Kessel... just debate with some fine hockey fans such as yourselves

Do you realize Heatley didn't lead his team in scoring his freshman year. So Reinprect is clearly better than Heatley becasue he out scored him right? The kid is 18. Who cares what he did in one tourney. And yes he only had a goal. But he still lead the tourney in scoring. So does that mean his passing is greatley underated. A poor mans shooting Brett Hull. But with the abilty to pass like a guy that can lead a tourney in assists. Does not sound bad at all.

But i will save these all. And in five years. I hope you are all ready to print it off and eat the e-mail. This is not the first nor the last time. Someone has been totally written off before they even put on an NHL sweater. Or someone has been put on such a pedistal.

Reminds of when ESPN had Kurt Warner as one of the best quarterbacks ever. Time will tell. But keep on predicating the future. I see as you are all right everytime. So why should this time be any different.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Bingo. Kessel's game against norway can not and should not reflect his skill.

Well player X scored alot against a back up goalie with the team playing back to back days. So that game should not count.

Petty, Petty and oh yeah Petty.

I was also unaware that Kessel was the only one to play against Norway. Why didn't other talents score in bunches too?

 

[crosby_87]

Well player X scored alot against a back up goalie with the team playing back to back days. So that game should not count.

Petty, Petty and oh yeah Petty.

I was also unaware that Kessel was the only one to play against Norway. Why didn't other talents score in bunches too?

When you use "Player x", that totally makes it not credible. If you give a solid example, it actually...uhm...makes sense.

 

[MN_Gopher]

When you use "Player x", that totally makes it not credible. If you give a solid example, it actually...uhm...makes sense.

It means in league play or a tourney you cannot discredit anything one team did or what one player did against another. Other teams played Norway. If you take away any one game from any player for any reason it means nothing. Less one game from anyone in any sport can change many things.

It woule be like taking a home run away becasue the the pitcher was hanging curves that day. Take away two homers and you might have a new champion.

 

[ap3lovr]

Lets have this debate after Kessel breaks into the NHL. Until then it's all speculation. Hell, Kessel/Bergeron/Boyes might be just as explosive as Crosby/Bergeron/Boyes...

Really I think Kessel will be an all star, possibly future hall of famer. However Bergeron is the best player on the B's and has a higher ceiling..
IMHO

 

[Habsfan18]

Kessel has more offensive ability than Crosby if he reaches it.

 

[Pens75]

Kessel looks like that b@stard kid in the playground that nobody liked.

 

[castlesave*]

To say that Kessel is as talented as Crosby is getting a little crazy now.... Crosby is going to be the 2nd best player in the league behind Ovechkin for the next 15 years!

 

[Zeus6754]

Crosby is going to be the 2nd best player in the league behind Ovechkin for the next 15 years!

Crosby is already better than Ovechkin. Kessel is a step below Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Yes... so by your logic if Ovechkin decided to play in Japan (letsay he loves sushi) instead of comming over to the NHL this past year he would be a crap player who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance as Crosby. Sorry mate, but your and the general logic of people who discredit Malkin is flawed. A player is the same quality of player regardless of which league he plays in. Someone making the jump from the ECHL to the NHL doesn't automatically make them better nor would Gretzky be any worse in his prime if he decided to play a few games in a local beer league.

Your post is inherently flawed.

Dominating an inferior league is not the same as dominating the NHL and I think that's what people are saying.

Not that Malkin is terrible just because he played in the RSL but rather, Malkin dominating the RSL is not nearly of the same value as an even younger Sidney Crosby or even an older AO dominating the NHL.

The RSL is simply not as good as the NHL. Not even close. The folks here just want to see Malkin prove himself against some tougher competition before proclaiming him the saviour.

The Olympics was a sampling, but who knows...

 

[#66]

Your post is inherently flawed.

Dominating an inferior league is not the same as dominating the NHL and I think that's what people are saying.

Not that Malkin is terrible just because he played in the RSL but rather, Malkin dominating the RSL is not nearly of the same value as an even younger Sidney Crosby or even an older AO dominating the NHL.

The RSL is simply not as good as the NHL. Not even close. The folks here just want to see Malkin prove himself against some tougher competition before proclaiming him the saviour.

The Olympics was a sampling, but who knows...

I wouldn't go that far. Its just two different types of hockey. There are plenty of NHL players that wouldn't do much in the RSL.

 

[Buddhaa]

Uh, no he doesn't. Homer alert!

Actually, considering that Crosby's potential ceiling ir +/- Gretzky (incredible vision and smarts), anyone saying that Kessel has higher potential than Crosby must be joking, cos we all know Kessel is no-where near Gretzky as an offensive force.

 

[Marchy79]

Do you realize Heatley didn't lead his team in scoring his freshman year. So Reinprect is clearly better than Heatley becasue he out scored him right? The kid is 18. Who cares what he did in one tourney. And yes he only had a goal. But he still lead the tourney in scoring. So does that mean his passing is greatley underated. A poor mans shooting Brett Hull. But with the abilty to pass like a guy that can lead a tourney in assists. Does not sound bad at all.

But i will save these all. And in five years. I hope you are all ready to print it off and eat the e-mail. This is not the first nor the last time. Someone has been totally written off before they even put on an NHL sweater. Or someone has been put on such a pedistal.

Reminds of when ESPN had Kurt Warner as one of the best quarterbacks ever. Time will tell. But keep on predicating the future. I see as you are all right everytime. So why should this time be any different.

Umm... Dany Heatley was never claimed to be better than the current phenom in the NHL. He was projected to be an All-star player. A poor man's Brett Hull is an all-star player (If a guy can do 1/2 of Hull's totals in his prime, he's still a 40 goal scorer..)

His ability to pass wasnt the reason why he was there... and furthermore USA had one of the strongest teams they ever iced in an international tournament last year (I guess you kinda forgot about that). They were one of the favourites to go the distance. His passing totals COULD have been slightly overdone. Hey you can say it was a strong tournament by Phil... Scoring 5 assists against Norway is quite a way to show your potential NHL muscles... Norway. Who has produced ONE known NHL hockey player (Espen Knutsen)... Kessel also performed in the WJC game against the Czech's (goal and an assist)... But was no where to be found when Malkin's Russia kicked the living crap all over that team... led by, you guessed it Evgeny Malkin. Yeah, you can say 'It was only one game' but you also have to take in to consideration is that you are comparing Kessel to players who dont have these kind of games under their belt WHEN PLAYING WITHIN THEIR AGE GROUP. he did very good in an U-18... however U-20 is where it's all about it... Many stars have overperformed in U-18 games.

What you are going to realize is that nobody is placing Kessel off the pedestal completely... He's just NOT a franchise player. That's not shameful... it doesnt mean he wont get big contracts, In fact as I have mentioned, he's still going to be an all-star IMO... definately a level off the Ovechkins, Crosby, and Malkins of the world.

Oh and as for Warner... and QB'ing in the NFL... for a very brief time, yes he was considered one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL... when he was league MVP and WON THE ****ING SUPERBOWL!!!! Big difference than Philly-boy isnt it? What's Philly done? other than disappoint, and underperform when his neck was in the fire I mean... Which is typical for a Billl Guerin, not so typical for a Lemieux, Gretzky, or to a lesser extent (at this point) Ovechkin, Crosby or Malkin...

Kessel did not make a single player better in the past WJC tournament... another sign of a great player on the rise. Yes, he has 2 more years of eligibility... But you cant be expecting him to be there, after all, Crosby was sitting at above a PPG level when this topurnament went onwards... where? in the NHL. How much younger is Kessel than Crosby? 2 months? check your head man... cause f Crosby was there... well, I think Kessel wouldnt of even been a headliner (and that's being brutally honest). you try to compare Kessel's accomplishments to Crosby when he's doing it at the largest stage in the hockey world... compared to Kessel's playing of 16-20 year olds...

Malkin on the other hand... well, he dominated a pro league as well this year, and to put it lightly, was the force for the second place Russian squad in the WJC's... plenty of all-stars in a few years will have played in that tourney... But there is no way you can convince ME that Kessel is going to pop the points Crosby did in his first year (whoch is what he did in EVERY league coming up)... not even close.

Obviously you believe so... so how about answering my original question then... "When has Kessel ever carried a team, like all 3 A.O., Crosby, and Malkin have done)"

My answer still sits at NEVER

 

[Buffalo87]

To say that Kessel is as talented as Crosby is getting a little crazy now.... Crosby is going to be the best player in the league ahead of Ovechkin for the next 15 years!

Corrected

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

I wouldn't go that far. Its just two different types of hockey. There are plenty of NHL players that wouldn't do much in the RSL.

The calibre of NHL hockey is significantly better than the calibre of RSL hockey.

The ability of specific players to accalamate to a certain style of game not withstanding.

 

[Marchy79]

The calibre of NHL hockey is significantly better than the calibre of RSL hockey.

The ability of specific players to accalamate to a certain style of game not withstanding.

Actually, as scary as it is to say it... # 66 is more right than you think... I still believe NHL is the best league... but RSL isn't as far off as many would suspect...

 

[EroCaps]

Crosby is already better than Ovechkin. Kessel is a step below Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin.

No you didn't.

There's logic that could be used to argue that Malkin is the best of the 3.

Let's see what they do the next 5 years.

As for Kessel, he's a step below Staal, Toews and Backstrom too apparently.

Again, he's overrated w/that ranking, to say the least.