Why does Kessel have the same rating as Malkin??

[The_Eck]

Fedorov is one of the better two-way players to play the game in the last 20 or so years. The guy was a beast offensively and defensively.

I watched him for years since I double as a Wings fan since my dad is a huge one.

Malkin is pretty awesome, but I highly doubt he turns out better than Fedorov was in his prime.

I HIGHLY doubt it.

So is malkin.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

So is malkin.

In the Russian league, sure.

We're talking NHL.

Come back to me when he is as good as Fedorov was in the NHL and I'll buy you a drink.

 

[Grave77digger]

Malkin's a great prospect, but I don't consider that highlite reel unique enough to label him a generational talent. When he can do that kind of stuff consistently at the NHL level let me know and ill eat my cat!

 

[The_Eck]

In the Russian league, sure.

We're talking NHL.

Come back to me when he is as good as Fedorov was in the NHL and I'll buy you a drink.

Well that's the whole point of this discussion!! People are making projections for different prospects, and malkin has the tools to become one of the best players in the league if not the best. It's immature to ridicule those who have a different opinion than yours.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Malkin's a great prospect, but I don't consider that highlite reel unique enough to label him a generational talent. When he can do that kind of stuff consistently at the NHL level let me know.

You know I will . If you have a reel of any pre-NHLer that's more impressive than that one though, show me, and I'll never post the Malkin one again.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well that's the whole point of this discussion!! People are making projections for different prospects, and malkin has the tools to become one of the best players in the league if not the best. It's immature to ridicule those who have a different opinion than yours.

It's immature and not very bright to start throwing around some of the better players in league's history.

 

[66-30-33]

Crosbys career before NHL > Kessel

Kessel looks fat btw..saw a pic on him on nhl.com and i'm like "whoa", Kessels mom goes ape aswell.

Anyway no way is Kessels offense better the Crosby. 18 years old..lived up to his hype, had 102 points as an 18 year old in 81 games, finished a second to worst team with a +/- rating of -1, had to carry his team of slackers who showed up if they wanted to or didn't show up. Kessel only was at top for points in that tournament because Crosby was used in a non offensive role for that tournament!, Crosby and Bergeron owned the world championships, Kessel may be a good player but noway any sane person would say Kessel is a better offensive player if he reachs his peak...Kessel wont even reach 60 points for his rookie season, mark that down if you want! 50's maybe but not 60.

 

[Slay]

Few words about Malkin. If I'm not mistaken he is the most prolific 19 y.o. point producer in post Soviet era and maybe even including Soviet championships. So Malkin can claim to be the best 19 years old Russian player in at least 15 years.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

But he has been a winner just about everywhere he's played. He won at Darmouth, he won at Shattuck's, he carried a former last place Oceanics team to the Memorial Cup only to lose to perhaps the greatest Junior team ever.

And of course he wasn't much of a winner last season. No one could have turned the Penguins around in one year. But given time, we have every reason to believe he'll turn the Penguins from a bottom feeder into a contender, just like he did in Jr. Surely a teenager gets more than one season to turn around an NHL team.

If you wouldn't consider Crosby a winner when looking at his career thus far, what young player of similar age deserves that label?

I never said that he doesn't deserve the label of being a winner. What I said is was this: "saying that he's been a winner everywhere he's played is bogus." He didn't win at the World Championships recently and he didn't save the Penguins from a horrible season.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Kessel has more offensive ability than Crosby if he reaches it.

Uh, no he doesn't. Homer alert!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's immature and not very bright to start throwing around some of the better players in league's history.

Well, Fedorov had some great seasons and was stellar defensively, but as far as I know it took awhile for him to develop that defensive dimension, whereas Malkin is already a force in his own zone and dominating the second best league on earth at 19.

Although two Selkes, a Hart, and a Pearson are nothing to scoff at, given Malkin's prodigious start and more physical game (thanks to his stature), I can see his ceiling being higher than Fedorov. And if you want to go around mocking other's opinions of Malkin, you might want to give a shout out to Ray Shero, who actually had Malkin rated higher than Ovechkin on his draft table back in '04, and said he'd prefer him to Crosby (I respectfully disagree on that point ).

 

[The_Eck]

It's immature and not very bright to start throwing around some of the better players in league's history.

Well, you did mention fedorov who is one of the better players in league's history (ie: only player to have won the selke and hart in the same year).

 

[66-30-33]

Just wondering..where do you guys find ratings for a player and what's the difference between like 9a..9b...and 9c (if there is 1).

1 meaning the worst i presume and 10 the best?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well, you did mention fedorov who is one of the better players in league's history (ie: only player to have won the selke and hart in the same year).

I consider Sergei on a lower tier than the others.

I figured you'd get that, since you're one of the more reasonable posters on here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Few words about Malkin. If I'm not mistaken he is the most prolific 19 y.o. point producer in post Soviet era and maybe even including Soviet championships. So Malkin can claim to be the best 19 years old Russian player in at least 15 years.

Yep. But lets not allow facts to ruin this argument.

I don't think you will find one NHL GM who would take Kessel over Malkin. I think that speaks volumes about who should be rated higher.

Not that I care, because Brendl was ranked as a 9 when he was drafted.

Just because someone slapped a 9 on Kessel, doesn't make him as good a player as Malkin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Uh, no he doesn't. Homer alert!

You really have to wonder about people who would downplay Malkin's achievements by saying he hasn't done anything in the NHL yet, and then turn around and say Kessel, who's yet to set foot on NHL ice, has a higher offensive upside than Crosby, the youngest player in NHL history to score 100 points and lead the World Championships in scoring. Cripes, what does Sid have to do?

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

You do realize that beliveau's ppg is 1.08 throughout his career right even though he played on a great team. Not saying that beliveau was not a great player, but comparing malkin to beliveau is not laughable. Furthermore, his defensive game is what many scouts are also raving about.

At first you said something along the lines of nobody expecting Malkin to be Lemieux.

You follow that up by saying he is going to score 2 PPG over the course of his career which would rank him as the best of all-time in that department, better than lemieux or Gretzky.

Now you are saying that his defensive game compares to Bob gainey who is the greatest defensive forward ever to play the game.

Jon is right, that is laughable...

 

[The_Eck]

At first you said something along the lines of nobody expecting Malkin to be Lemieux.

You follow that up by saying he is going to score 2 PPG over the course of his career which would rank him as the best of all-time in that department, better than lemieux or Gretzky.

Now you are saying that his defensive game compares to Bob gainey who is the greatest defensive forward ever to play the game.

Jon is right, that is laughable...

My quotes:

'No it's not, nobody is expecting him to reach lemieux's level. The reason people here are comparing him to lemieux is because malkin's offensive game looks very similar to mario's (ie: same skating style, long reach, soft hands......). I don't expect malkin to average 2pts/game throughout his career.'

'As for his defensive game, he is by far better than both AO and Crosby and is a threat on the penalty kill. '

'Furthermore, his defensive game is what many scouts are also raving about.'


Now where did i compare his defensive game to bob gainey?? And where did i say that he would score 2 ppg?? I know you don't like me as a poster but don't blast me for no reason.....

 

[66-30-33]

Just wondering..where do you guys find ratings for a player and what's the difference between like 9a..9b...and 9c (if there is 1).

1 meaning the worst i presume and 10 the best?

bump

 

[The_Eck]

Giving Malkin, Ovechkin, Kessel or Crosby a 10 is an insult to Gretzky and Orr...

Now that is a laughable statement, someone who clearly does not understand how these rankings actually work.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Now that is a laughable statement, someone who clearly does not understand how these rankings actually work.

Really? Hockey's Future's critera for what constitutes a "generational talent"

10 - Generational talent -- a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade. Think Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, maybe Sidney Crosby, but we'll see.

To give a player like Malkin a 10 (which some want to do) you are suggesting he is a generational talent, i.e. deserving to be mentioned in the same breath as a Gretzky or Orr.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

people are going to be pretty disappointed if they expect kessel to perform as well as ovechkin, crosby, or even malkin.

crosby may not be as fast as kessel or have as good of a shot, but he has something that really separates the elite from the great: hockey sense. i havent seen a player with this much hockey sense since lemieux/gretzky.

malkin is not "just a hyped prospect like kessel". he played brilliantly at the highest level of hockey there is, the olympics. that's why he has so much hype. not very often does a "prospect" star in a best on best tournament before entering the nhl. i've never been more sure that a player is going to be a star than i am with malkin.

my post may seem homerrific, but i don't think it's far from the truth.

 

[Techbert]

I think Malkin becomes a 9A as soon as his feet touch North American soil.

I think Kessel's ceiling is 9. I think the key with Kessel is his letter grade. We can better judge that letter a year from now.

It's a C or D to me, but I've been wrong before.

 

[The_Eck]

Really? Hockey's Future's critera for what constitutes a "generational talent"

10 - Generational talent -- a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade. Think Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, maybe Sidney Crosby, but we'll see.

To give a player like Malkin a 10 (which some want to do) you are suggesting he is a generational talent, i.e. deserving to be mentioned in the same breath as a Gretzky or Orr.

Many players have been labeled generational talents in the past and have not reached their projected potential. This ranking is viewed as potential, and malkin does have the ability to be considered as a generational talent. Many consider malkin to be that good. As some russian journalist said: 'If malkin were canadian, people wouldn't even be talking about crosby....'

Malkin deserves to be considered in the same breath as crosby and AO who are both considered generational talents.

 

[66-30-33]

But he has been a winner just about everywhere he's played. He won at Darmouth, he won at Shattuck's, he carried a former last place Oceanics team to the Memorial Cup only to lose to perhaps the greatest Junior team ever.

And of course he wasn't much of a winner last season. No one could have turned the Penguins around in one year. But given time, we have every reason to believe he'll turn the Penguins from a bottom feeder into a contender, just like he did in Jr. Surely a teenager gets more than one season to turn around an NHL team.

If you wouldn't consider Crosby a winner when looking at his career thus far, what young player of similar age deserves that label?

Same with Lemieux.