Why do some prospects choose the NCAA?

LoveHateLeafs

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Jul 7, 2009
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Finally, there are stipulations in the CHL education package that can make it less attractive.
Let’s imagine two hypothetical hockey players. We’ll call them Adam and Bob. At age 16, both are highly touted prospects of equal skill. Both have the brains to get through college if they apply themselves. They’ve been drafted by OHL teams, have offers from NCAA recruiters, and the time has come to make a decision. Adam chooses a college in a decent conference, and Bob goes to the OHL.

Fast forward four years. Adam and Bob have both matured, and come to the realization that at age 16, they were big fish in a little pond. They were both drafted at age 18, but in the later rounds, Adam by Anaheim, and Bob by Boston. It’s June, and neither of the teams that drafted them have signed them to an entry level deal.

Adam is disappointed, but not too worried. Anaheim’s director of player development has told him that they aren’t yet ready to use one of their fifty pro contract slots on him, but to just keep plugging away and that they’ll reevaluate him at the end of next year. The CBA allows Anaheim to hold Adam’s rights for up to four years without signing him. Adam has two years of university under his belt and two more years to fix the flaws in his game. If Anaheim really thinks that he’s ready for the next level within the next two years, they’ll sign him to an ELC and he’ll have some financial security. If not, he can offer his services to any team in any league that will take him. If that fails, he has a university degree.

Bob, on the other hand, isn’t feeling quite so optimistic about his future. Boston has informed him that they won’t sign him to a contract. He’s played dutifully for his OHL team for four years. Now he has to make a choice that’s just as difficult as the one he made at age 16.

1) He can try to get on with a minor pro team, but in that case, he has less than two seasons to gauge his future in hockey before his education package is voided. Even in the fleeting world of professional sports careers, 18 months is a short time, hardly enough time for a player to decide whether they have a long-term future in the league. If he gives up after the 18 months, it will also mean that Adam will have been out high school for nearly four years, making the transition to university/college more difficult.

2) He can use his education package and play CIS for four years. At age 24, he will have a degree, but his professional hockey prospects will be limited, since he has spent the last four years playing in the CIS against inferior competition.

At the risk of sounding flippant, who seems smarter, Adam or Bob?

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t have anything against the CHL. I’ve derived countless hours of enjoyment watching the games. I also don’t think that a kid should torture himself by going to college if he lacks the brains and/or inclination to do so. I just know that if it were my kid having to make that decision at age 16, I would do everything in my power to convince him to go to college and hopefully he would at least understand (if not necessarily agree with) the reasoning behind it.
 

Granlund2Pulkkinen*

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Because NCAA hockey is amazing...

If you're not in a rush to make the NHL I'm 99.9% positive NCAA life > CHL life.

That's why some Canadians even come down to play NCAA hockey.

American College life... NCAA sports... It's great.
 

KingLB

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Not sure if its been mentioned in this thread, but the CHL "tuition package" isn't all its cracked up to be.
 

SPORTSMANIAC

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I would hope that a player wouldn't waste all of his earnings froma 15 year pro hockey career and could pay his way through school.

Well yeah but I was going on your previous post where you said the CHL has an education package...It's not for every player in the CHL because a chunk of the player pool will never get to use that free education.

Where as in the NCAA, once a player arrives on campus is getting the same opportunity to earn a four year degree whether you are a 1st round pick or a walk on.

Lets face it nearly 100% of CHLers that go in the NHL first round won't see their education package.
 

SPORTSMANIAC

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Because college sports is so big down here....It's what they grow up with and aren't exposed to major junior until there teenage years if they are good enough for that level.

Just like any kid in Canada who's dream to play major junior, a kid in the USA is thinking of playing for BC, BU, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota, Denver etc.

I understand your point about the CHL offering an Education package to every player, but it's voided after a player plays a year and half of professional hockey. So after a 15 year career lets say, you can't use your CHL education package because it's null and voided.[/QUOTE]

Correct and fair comment......you leave junior ....go pro your education is gone.
Same thing with players that leave the NCAA after a year or 2. You leave and your education is gone.

True...But it's the player's choice though to leave school.
 

Stories

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Because college is awesome. Being a 19 year old with a bunch of other 19 year olds was just one of the most entertaining experiences in my life. What's not to love about that?

If you play 2 years of NCAA, you then leave with 2 years of a 4 year degree done. You'll be the same age as a CHLer done with his CHL career (age 20) and then you start your NHL career. If you want to go back to school, you've only got 2 years left. Or do what many NCAAers who leave early do, take classes during the offseason and graduate. I remembered a few years ago, Ben Guite when he was with the Avs was finishing up his MBA during the offseason. At Maine, where he played NCAA. I thought that was awesome of him.
 

Psycho Papa Joe

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If my son is ever a good enough hockey player to play CHL or NCAA, this is why I would recommend NCAA over the CHL:

- The CHL schedule is ridiculously long. There is more to life for a teenager or a young man than playing a ton of hockey games. I think NCAA provides the best balance between playing games, practice, education and having a healthy social life.
- With the NCAA you have choice as to where you play. The CHL has a draft and can send you to a place you have no desire to be in at a young age
- NCAA is more valuable life experience than the CHL. My opinion of course, but I'd love my kid to be the the big man on campus at a big US school.
- The CHL takes kids away from their families at too young an age
- The CHL has young men playing against 16 year old kids. Just too big a disparity in physical maturation. The sight of Jeff Kugel chasing 140lbs 16 year old kids freaked me out. I admit it.
- The NCAA provides more time for you to get your education at the best possible age to get such an education.
 
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Epsilon

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Yeah, I don't really see the evidence to support any claim that playing in the CHL "fast tracks" a player's NHL career, when many of them end up playing in the CHL until they are 20, then the AHL, then finally the NHL if they make it that far.

It's true that more players jump to the NHL at 18 and 19 from the CHL (and probably from Europe) than the NCAA, but this is more a function of the fact that Canada, Russia, and Sweden have been producing more superstar players than the USA; the types who will jump to the NHL immediately. This doesn't have anything specific to do with the league they play in, but rather than players themselves. The only place where I can see it making a difference is that an 18 or 19 year old in the CHL might end up on an NHL team if he's caught in no-man's land: maybe not quite good enough (at least initially) to really warrant an NHL spot, but too good for the CHL and unable to play in his ideal spot (the AHL) due to the rules, so the NHL team decides to keep him up at the NHL level.
 

leoleo3535

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If my son is ever a good enough hockey player to play CHL or NCAA, this is why I would recommend NCAA over the CHL:

- The CHL schedule is ridiculously long. There is more to life for a teenager or a young man than playing a ton of hockey games. I think NCAA provides the best balance between playing games, practice, education and having a healthy social life.
- With the NCAA you have choice as to where you play. The CHL has a draft and can send you to a place you have no desire to be in at a young age
- NCAA is more valuable life experience than the CHL. My opinion of course, but I'd love my kid to be the the big man on campus at a big US school.
- The CHL takes kids away from their families at too young an age- The CHL has young men playing against 16 year old kids. Just too big a disparity in physical maturation. The sight of Jeff Kugel chasing 140lbs 16 year old kids freaked me out. I admit it.- The NCAA provides more time for you to get your education at the best possible age to get such an education.
Kids choosing the NCAA route are also away from home.
The NCAA has a far bigger spread in ages than the CHL.
 

MN_Gopher

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Look at the playboy women of the big ten.

Roughly 20k women aged 18-22 attend each of MI, Ohio St, MN, WI, Mi St.

Many top NCAA players only stay until their draft year or one after. Its not like all drafted Junior players leave after their draft year.

We will take players with over 70 points.

Sedin, Sedin, Selanne, Ovechken, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Erickson all played over seas.

St Louis, Sharp ECAC/NCAA

Vanek, Toews WCHA/NCAA

Perry, Thornton, Stamkos, Ryan, Kane, Staal OHL/Junior

Getzlaf, Iginla, Marleau WHL/Junior

Richards, Giroux, Ribero QMJHL/Junior

Kesler CCHA/NCAA

There were 29 30+ goal scorers. Five were from the WCHA and nine all together played NCAA.

The NCAA will never match junior straight up. But its not a landslide.
 

wej20

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Kids choosing the NCAA route are also away from home.
The NCAA has a far bigger spread in ages than the CHL.

The youngest guys in NCAA are 17/18 compared to junior. The NCAA may have a bigger spread of ages but the players are more physically mature.
 

leoleo3535

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The youngest guys in NCAA are 17/18 compared to junior. The NCAA may have a bigger spread of ages but the players are more physically mature.

There are 16 year olds and as discussed in numerous threads here (and hilited by the M SL video) many players are not mature and or are small and choose this route to give themselves longer terms to develope.
You have men against boys....giants vs jockeys....and age gaps approaching 10 years....far more than in the CHL.
 

Quakmybush

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Mar 12, 2009
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To me it's a really simple decision, for the NCAA.

To get an education as a back up plan is good, and if you make the NHL after, even better. If you're good enough to play in the NHL, they'll find you, and you'll get your contract. The league doesnt matter, if you have the skill, you get found. And it's not up to the league to develop the player, the player should have some responsibility to make themselves better.
 

Freeptop

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How about we take the word of a hockey agent on why some players opt to go the NCAA Division I route?

"Many players, if not most, are not "big prospects" for the NHL. For good players, the university or college route may indeed be a better route to the big leagues. Why? Because it gives players more time to develop and demonstrate skills. Plus, they get a college education at the same time.

In my case, when I was 16, I only weighed 155 pounds. Physically, I was a late bloomer, which is why I decided to go to school. As a player, you should keep in mind that you don't go to college until you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and you graduate when you are 22 to 24 years old. These four years provide a lot more time to develop as a player. Also, at this point in a player's life, you don't need hockey to provide a living. Having options is always a good thing. The Division 1 route can provide them. "
http://www.totalsportsmgmt.com/pro-hockey/

That seems like a good answer to the original question, "Why do some prospects choose the NCAA?" to me. And it comes from an authoritative source (someone who actually advises kids as to whether to take the CHL or NCAA route).
 

leoleo3535

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How about we take the word of a hockey agent on why some players opt to go the NCAA Division I route?

"Many players, if not most, are not "big prospects" for the NHL. For good players, the university or college route may indeed be a better route to the big leagues. Why? Because it gives players more time to develop and demonstrate skills. Plus, they get a college education at the same time.

In my case, when I was 16, I only weighed 155 pounds. Physically, I was a late bloomer, which is why I decided to go to school. As a player, you should keep in mind that you don't go to college until you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and you graduate when you are 22 to 24 years old. These four years provide a lot more time to develop as a player. Also, at this point in a player's life, you don't need hockey to provide a living. Having options is always a good thing. The Division 1 route can provide them. "
http://www.totalsportsmgmt.com/pro-hockey/

That seems like a good answer to the original question, "Why do some prospects choose the NCAA?" to me. And it comes from an authoritative source (someone who actually advises kids as to whether to take the CHL or NCAA route).

As discussed....size and development were huge factors in why he opted for college hockey.
While he is an agent he has zero NHL clients and is not certified to handle NHL clients.
This is his opinion which is valid but we could also pull up many examples of where NHL certified agents recommend the CHL route.
Again.......both options work depending on the player.
 

SPORTSMANIAC

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If my son is ever a good enough hockey player to play CHL or NCAA, this is why I would recommend NCAA over the CHL:

- The CHL schedule is ridiculously long. There is more to life for a teenager or a young man than playing a ton of hockey games. I think NCAA provides the best balance between playing games, practice, education and having a healthy social life.
- With the NCAA you have choice as to where you play. The CHL has a draft and can send you to a place you have no desire to be in at a young age
- NCAA is more valuable life experience than the CHL. My opinion of course, but I'd love my kid to be the the big man on campus at a big US school.
- The CHL takes kids away from their families at too young an age
- The CHL has young men playing against 16 year old kids. Just too big a disparity in physical maturation. The sight of Jeff Kugel chasing 140lbs 16 year old kids freaked me out. I admit it.
- The NCAA provides more time for you to get your education at the best possible age to get such an education.

Playing Devils Advocate because I see the pros and cons of both the NCAA and the CHL

1. CHL season too long

I want your thoughts of what you think of the midget season before juniors/college where they play 60-80 games...If a kid has pro aspirations he will be playing a 82 schedule so why not get use to it?

CHL kids aren't at the rink all day...They go to school, and have time to hang out with friends.

I know this an exception but look at Louis Leblanc not only playing a 68 game schedule but also taking classes at McGill in Montreal. No different then when he was at Harvard.

2.You can choose your NCAA School

While you are right, but the school also needs to want you too. You think players playing for mid-majors want to be playing for mid majors? Not everyone can play for the school of their dreams.

If a kid gets drafted to a team that he doesn't want to go to, he doesn't have to report. That's why teams do their homework to make sure kids will report. Obviously not every draft pick ends up playing for that team or in the league, but for the guys they are really after.

3. CHL Kids are taking away from their families

Once again (we hope) no one is forcing to move if they don't want too. If a kid seriously wants to make it a career then you have to make scarifies.

If you are going the NCAA route, you still might have to move to get notice. College coaches aren't going to a high school game unless its Minnesota,maybe Mass., or a New England/Shattuck St. Mary's prep school. You will need to look at the USHL, NAHL, EJHL etc to get noticed.

Look at the handful of 15-year olds playing in the USHL in recent years or the 22 or so 16-year old players all over the USA going to Ann Arbor, Michigan for the NTDP.

4. Age and weight Disparity

Most cases the two or three 16-year-olds that make a CHL roster are usually physically ready to play at that level. I don't see much an issue.

When you are at 16, you should be playing against older competition if you are serous on a hockey career either the CHL or NCAA. It's no different then a 16 year old player playing high school hockey against 18 year olds. We are still talking about the same average age disparity of 2-3 years.

5. Big Man on Campus

I understand what you mean, but it also sounds like you want your kid to party after the games. You don't think a CHL community rallies around their stars or kids at the local high schools know who the star player of the team that attends to the school?
 

boredmale

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I understand what you mean, but it also sounds like you want your kid to party after the games. You don't think a CHL community rallies around their stars or kids at the local high schools know who the star player of the team that attends to the school?

Much easier to find a good party in Boston then Red Deer. lol
 

SomeDude

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Because NCAA hockey is amazing...

If you're not in a rush to make the NHL I'm 99.9% positive NCAA life > CHL life.

That's why some Canadians even come down to play NCAA hockey.

American College life... NCAA sports... It's great.

This.

I only played club level hockey in college, but my college experience was the best time of my life, and hockey was only a fraction of the reason for that. I wouldn't give up those years for anything.
 

Ogopogo*

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Because NCAA hockey is amazing...

If you're not in a rush to make the NHL I'm 99.9% positive NCAA life > CHL life.

That's why some Canadians even come down to play NCAA hockey.

American College life... NCAA sports... It's great.

As we have uncovered earlier in the thread, that is definitely an American perspective. The vast majority of Canadians are not brought up in an environment where the NCAA is something to aspire to.

Most Canadian kids would much prefer the CHL life.

Each country has their own preference.
 

Joe Hallenback

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Life in the CHL is pretty damm good. Plus the education package is a great deal not just for college but any type of trade school as well. Hate to break it to some of you but alot of these kids even the ones in NCAA are not rocket surgeons
 

Ogopogo*

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Much easier to find a good party in Boston then Red Deer. lol

Is Boston the only city with NCAA hockey? Is Red Deer the only city with CHL hockey?

Why slag cities to make a case for your preference? I could compare Vancouver in the CHL with Grand Forks in the NCAA.

Your statement adds nothing to the discussion.
 

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