Why do some prospects choose the NCAA?

[Finlandia WOAT]

There is a reason people say college was the best time of their lives.

 

[hockeyr5]

Why do NHL players have children? It only takes away from practice time.

 

[boredmale]

Why slag cities to make a case for your preference? I could compare Vancouver in the CHL with Grand Forks in the NCAA.

University of North Dakota has an enrollment of 14,000 people. While point is well taken that not every CHL team plays in a small city, most major universities that have Hockey teams have universities with 10K+ enrolled(so even if it's in a smaller town, chances are it a good party environment). I am guessing even more in a place like UND, chances are you will be big man on campus then a place like Boston University

 

[Ogopogo*]

University of North Dakota has an enrollment of 14,000 people. While point is well taken that not every CHL team plays in a small city, most major universities that have Hockey teams have universities with 10K+ enrolled(so even if it's in a smaller town, chances are it a good party environment). I am guessing even more in a place like UND, chances are you will be big man on campus then a place like Boston University

Because CHL players are completely anonymous in their cities??????

If a guy is going to play hockey in a place because of the party scene, there is a high likelihood he is not moving beyond that level.

 

[boredmale]

Red Deer has a population of 85,000....

14000 people of the ages of 18-22

 

[Ogopogo*]

14000 people of the ages of 18-22

If a guy is choosing a place to prepare for the pros based on the party scene, there is a very high likelihood he will never make the pros.

 

[brtriad]

If a guy is choosing a place to prepare for the pros based on the party scene, there is a very high likelihood he will never make the pros.

"What's that?" says Jonathan Toews.

 

[Ogopogo*]

"What's that?" says Jonathan Toews.

I stand corrected. Apparently you must be an alcoholic or crack head to make it at the NHL level.

 

[Fortheloveofthegame]

Finally, there are stipulations in the CHL education package that can make it less attractive.
Let’s imagine two hypothetical hockey players. We’ll call them Adam and Bob. At age 16, both are highly touted prospects of equal skill. Both have the brains to get through college if they apply themselves. They’ve been drafted by OHL teams, have offers from NCAA recruiters, and the time has come to make a decision. Adam chooses a college in a decent conference, and Bob goes to the OHL.

Fast forward four years. Adam and Bob have both matured, and come to the realization that at age 16, they were big fish in a little pond. They were both drafted at age 18, but in the later rounds, Adam by Anaheim, and Bob by Boston. It’s June, and neither of the teams that drafted them have signed them to an entry level deal.

Adam is disappointed, but not too worried. Anaheim’s director of player development has told him that they aren’t yet ready to use one of their fifty pro contract slots on him, but to just keep plugging away and that they’ll reevaluate him at the end of next year. The CBA allows Anaheim to hold Adam’s rights for up to four years without signing him. Adam has two years of university under his belt and two more years to fix the flaws in his game. If Anaheim really thinks that he’s ready for the next level within the next two years, they’ll sign him to an ELC and he’ll have some financial security. If not, he can offer his services to any team in any league that will take him. If that fails, he has a university degree.

Bob, on the other hand, isn’t feeling quite so optimistic about his future. Boston has informed him that they won’t sign him to a contract. He’s played dutifully for his OHL team for four years. Now he has to make a choice that’s just as difficult as the one he made at age 16.

1) He can try to get on with a minor pro team, but in that case, he has less than two seasons to gauge his future in hockey before his education package is voided. Even in the fleeting world of professional sports careers, 18 months is a short time, hardly enough time for a player to decide whether they have a long-term future in the league. If he gives up after the 18 months, it will also mean that Adam will have been out high school for nearly four years, making the transition to university/college more difficult.

2) He can use his education package and play CIS for four years. At age 24, he will have a degree, but his professional hockey prospects will be limited, since he has spent the last four years playing in the CIS against inferior competition.

At the risk of sounding flippant, who seems smarter, Adam or Bob?

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t have anything against the CHL. I’ve derived countless hours of enjoyment watching the games. I also don’t think that a kid should torture himself by going to college if he lacks the brains and/or inclination to do so. I just know that if it were my kid having to make that decision at age 16, I would do everything in my power to convince him to go to college and hopefully he would at least understand (if not necessarily agree with) the reasoning behind it.

VERY WELL SAID! I think too that at 16, CHL teams obviously can approach the players, but NCAA can't. Kids, and thier parents are either in such a rush, or are worried that an NCAA opportunity may not happen in the next two year, and they are not willing to be patient.
Also, at least the NCAA players, if they choose to leave school early, can sign and play in the AHL before they are 20 years old. That is another draw back of a player playing in the CHL. They may have played 3 years, be physically and mentally ready to play pro, but unless they make the "Big Club", they have to go back to CHL

 

[leoleo3535]

VERY WELL SAID! I think too that at 16, CHL teams obviously can approach the players, but NCAA can't. Kids, and thier parents are either in such a rush, or are worried that an NCAA opportunity may not happen in the next two year, and they are not willing to be patient.
Also, at least the NCAA players, if they choose to leave school early, can sign and play in the AHL before they are 20 years old. That is another draw back of a player playing in the CHL. They may have played 3 years, be physically and mentally ready to play pro, but unless they make the "Big Club", they have to go back to CHL

- no different than the USHL yet the NCAA accepts players from the USHL
- the NCAA approachs players at 16 and younger as well......D. Simpson, E. Comrie, M. Zulinick are 3 recent examples
- a few players can leave the NCAA and play in the AHL....the majority don't have the skill sets

 

[Zap Brannigan]

OP, serious question. How old are you? Do you remember what it was like to be 17?

Don't underestimate the vast difference between extracurricular activities available at an American university compared to a backwater town like Medicine Hat or Bathurst

The Hat isn't as much of a backwater town as you think

 

[Bank Shot]

Much easier to find a good party in Boston then Red Deer. lol

I doubt it. Drinking age is 18 in Red Deer and it is a notorious party town. 10% of the city are college students.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

RDC dorms = the bomb

 

[sfo]

- no different than the USHL yet the NCAA accepts players from the USHL
- the NCAA approachs players at 16 and younger as well......D. Simpson, E. Comrie, M. Zulinick are 3 recent examples
- a few players can leave the NCAA and play in the AHL....the majority don't have the skill sets

Ok... you're from Canada, so I'll cut you some slack here. But there's some flaws to your statements above...

First of all, NCAA coaches are prohibited from contacting players if they are not a senior in high school. However, a prospective player can initiate contact themselves. A lot of recruiting prior to senior year in high school is done through said players coach. If a player is interested in a school, they have to initiate contact. That's NCAA recruiting in a nutshell there.

The NCAA accepts USHL players because the USHL doesn't pay their players. And yeah, I get that Canadians say this is false, but a USHL player sees none of that money. That money goes to billet families and the like for living expenses, the player doesn't get a check. That is a difference between the USHL and the Canadian junior leagues.

 

[NHL Fanatic]

Why wouldn't you go to the NCAA. Top prospects can practically go to school for free. You not only get your schooling, you get to play a sport you love. There are many players who don't make it to the nhl. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages for the NCAA. Say you go to the CHL and make it to the NHL. Most guys won't want to go back to school once they are finished.

 

[leoleo3535]

Ok... you're from Canada, so I'll cut you some slack here. But there's some flaws to your statements above...

First of all, NCAA coaches are prohibited from contacting players if they are not a senior in high school. However, a prospective player can initiate contact themselves. A lot of recruiting prior to senior year in high school is done through said players coach. If a player is interested in a school, they have to initiate contact. That's NCAA recruiting in a nutshell there.

The NCAA accepts USHL players because the USHL doesn't pay their players. And yeah, I get that Canadians say this is false, but a USHL player sees none of that money. That money goes to billet families and the like for living expenses, the player doesn't get a check. That is a difference between the USHL and the Canadian junior leagues.

Thanks , that is understood.
NCAA teams are limited in their live viewings of a player as well. So all they do is farm out the scouting on a contract basis, receive unlimited reports, videos etc.
NCAA players cannot have agents either......so they have the same people (agent) but he changes his ID to "family advisor"....exact same role, same person.....just NCAA strings being used.

I have relatives and clients in both systems.

thanks

 

[jarboy]

In 2007 The Hockey News polled 283 NHLers to find out their thoughts on the game.

One of their answers was "More players (52%) would rather have their kid go the NCAA route than the CHL route (39%)," which is really surprising given the background in the CHL of most NHLers.

 

[leoleo3535]

In 2007 The Hockey News polled 283 NHLers to find out their thoughts on the game.

One of their answers was "More players (52%) would rather have their kid go the NCAA route than the CHL route (39%)," which is really surprising given the background in the CHL of most NHLers.

I would be interested to know the breakdown of the 283....ie did they attend NCAA? are they American/ Canadian ?

The CHL is loaded with sons of NHL'ers.

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

I stand corrected. Apparently you must be an alcoholic or crack head to make it at the NHL level.

you have no idea, seen plenty of nhl players get bombed downtown calgary, anyways answering your question

who says your losing 3-4 years of nhl playing by going to the chl, how many 18 year olds crack the nhl a season 2-3-5 players, not very many, even with the chl alot of players don't make they're system till they're 21,22

at that age you see alot of guys coming out of the ncaa rank 2,3,4 years into playing , getting a better education while they're at it.

obviously if you have the talent your likely going to play in the chl, the elite talent, but look at a guy like derek stepan, played 2 years of ncaa before he went to the nhl, say he had gone to the chl route, would it have speed up his progress or made him as effective as a rookie, i doubt it to be honest.

i'll give you an example, mike connolly playing for umd just got signed by san jose, guys got three years of education, and at the age of being 18 was far away from being ready for the nhl/ pro hockey, some players develop slower and arent ready to make the jump, they're ready when they're ready.

plus going to college myself, i'd hate to do this over when im "35" doing the college life with a bunch of 18-25 year old majority , i'd feel out of place for sure.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Here are a few things that I think drives families to college hockey. (I think the best route is Major Jr BTW. I changed my thoughts about a year ago mostly because of the points you bring up in your first post.)

A lot of these things are misconceptions and some are fact.

-College offers more practice/training time. The first thing most programs will show is their facilities. Not to say that Jr A teams do not have great facilities but a lot of kids will never see them unless they go visit the Jr A team that drafted them.

-Jr A offers no choice. Go to where you are drafted. You choose your college.

-College uses the NHL type schedule that Jr A offers, as a negative. "Hey Jimmy. While they are playing 80 plus games, you will play less than 50 which will give you more time in the weight room and on the ice for practices"

-People feel that the travel is easier/better in college.

-Some parents would rather have their kid in a dorm on a US campus than at a billets house in Canada.

-If the NCAA route is still going to produce the Towes, Keslers, Keith, Millers, Parise's, Oshie's, Vanek's, Kessel's , Orpik's, St Louis' of the world, then there will always be people looking that route


Just a few thoughts from conversations I have had with people about this subject

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Providence Friars had quite a few at one point Goulet, Ludwig and I think there were three more ex NHL players sons.

It is all preference. For every ex NHL star that wants their kid to go NCAA, there is another one pushing the CHL.

 

[Hooch314]

1. As you said in your post, kids want to get an education in case they bust or get injured in hockey.

2. College is an incredibly enjoyable experience. I'm sure playing in the CHL is awesome too, just saying.

 

[leoleo3535]

Here are a few things that I think drives families to college hockey. (I think the best route is Major Jr BTW. I changed my thoughts about a year ago mostly because of the points you bring up in your first post.)

A lot of these things are misconceptions and some are fact.

-College offers more practice/training time. The first thing most programs will show is their facilities. Not to say that Jr A teams do not have great facilities but a lot of kids will never see them unless they go visit the Jr A team that drafted them.

-Jr A offers no choice. Go to where you are drafted. You choose your college.

-College uses the NHL type schedule that Jr A offers, as a negative. "Hey Jimmy. While they are playing 80 plus games, you will play less than 50 which will give you more time in the weight room and on the ice for practices"

-People feel that the travel is easier/better in college.

-Some parents would rather have their kid in a dorm on a US campus than at a billets house in Canada.

-If the NCAA route is still going to produce the Towes, Keslers, Keith, Millers, Parise's, Oshie's, Vanek's, Kessel's , Orpik's, St Louis' of the world, then there will always be people looking that route


Just a few thoughts from conversations I have had with people about this subject

That is a stretch to call Keith a product of the NCAA when he spent the majority of his time in the Canadian junior systems - 97 games vs 56 in the NCAA. (started in Cdn. jr, finished in Cdn. jr)

 

[WreckItRask]

That is a stretch to call Keith a product of the NCAA when he spent the majority of his time in the Canadian junior systems - 97 games vs 56 in the NCAA. (started in Cdn. jr, finished in Cdn. jr)

We're not talking about the BCHL, we're talking about the CHL vs NCAA. Keith played 56 NCAA games, and 56 CHL games (including playoffs). I think it's fair to say he developed as an NCAA player as much as he did as a CHL player.

 

[JerseyGuy276]

I'm a college student and no I don't play hockey, but I know if I did, I would definitely want to go the NCAA route because I know that perhaps in the beginning of my career I could suffer a serious injury or something could happen to me that would result in any career I could have being cut short. I have an education degree to fall back on if something like that does happen so I'm set.