Why do some prospects choose the NCAA?

member 30781

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They're already getting rid of the cages. Not sure what fighting is really going to add, do College teams really want to be carrying enforcers? Increasing the schedule would be difficult because of travel and class commitments.

Well put.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Because the top colleges are just as good for development as the CHL. Even top guys from Canada like Toews and St Louis choose the NCAA over CHL.

Guys can also choose to sign with their clubs after 1 year of NCAA. They aren't locked into getting a degree.

You can add Brett Hull, Paul Kariya, Ed Belfour, Glenn Anderson, Kevin Dineen, Joe Nieuwendyk, Rod Brind'Amour, Rob Blake, Adam Oates, Dany Heatley, and tons of others to that list. Fact of the matter is that there is no one "right" development path. Pretty sure that none of these guys regrets for a second taking the NCAA route.
 

leafsfuture

Registered User
Mar 30, 2008
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The problem with this idea is that CHL grad dont just move on to school. The guys who put up good overage stats usually get NHL ELCs, and for the most part end up in between the ECHL and AHL. The average guys get ECHL or European contracts and usually spend 3 - 4 years playing pros. After doing this, its very hard to sacrifice your salary (as little as it is) to go back to school.

Secondly, the NCAA is good hockey. It may not be as good for development as the CHL, but I will say that every year it gets better. The USDP grads almost always go to the NCAA and their joined by the best USHL, and Jr A players.

And in addition, for many the NCAA is more "glamorous" than the CHL. the Top NCAA teams can attract great crowds, the players go to school and get the college experience. In addition in the NCAA you get to live alone. Im sure a lot of people are thrilled that in the CHL they have to live with billets/
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
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And in addition, for many the NCAA is more "glamorous" than the CHL. the Top NCAA teams can attract great crowds, the players go to school and get the college experience. In addition in the NCAA you get to live alone. Im sure a lot of people are thrilled that in the CHL they have to live with billets/

Where else is a 16 or 17 year old going to go?

And the vast majority of players don't have a problem with a billet. They actually enjoy living with them and remain friends with them for the rest of their life.
 

leoleo3535

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Feb 25, 2010
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The problem with this idea is that CHL grad dont just move on to school. The guys who put up good overage stats usually get NHL ELCs, and for the most part end up in between the ECHL and AHL. The average guys get ECHL or European contracts and usually spend 3 - 4 years playing pros. After doing this, its very hard to sacrifice your salary (as little as it is) to go back to school.

Secondly, the NCAA is good hockey. It may not be as good for development as the CHL, but I will say that every year it gets better. The USDP grads almost always go to the NCAA and their joined by the best USHL, and Jr A players.

And in addition, for many the NCAA is more "glamorous" than the CHL. the Top NCAA teams can attract great crowds, the players go to school and get the college experience. In addition in the NCAA you get to live alone. Im sure a lot of people are thrilled that in the CHL they have to live with billets/

Yes the players from the USHL are allowed but not from the CHL.
A bias rule anyway you want to look at it.

Considering the kids are 16,17, 18 etc.....and some as young as 15 billets are a very good thing.
 

Pugs35

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Jul 11, 2006
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I don't understand how going to college "throws away" years of pro-hockey when as a highly thought of prospect you can leave whenever you want?

If anything, the CHL route takes away pro-years for kids who have outgrown juniors but aren't ready for the NHL and therefore can't go to the AHL.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Both systems are good and naturally you will find players in both systems that will speak highly of their experiences-

http://www.blazerhockey.com/video/index/id/1302021226

All three videos were good. What I found interesting was that Perrin talked about he and St. Louis being smaller players and that factored into their decision to go to Vermont. They had doubts about making the jump to the NHL so they took the NCAA route.

With the WHL video, you look at Myers and RNH and they talk about how they made the decison to go the WHL route as the more direct path to the NHL.

People choose whatever path fits them the best but, if a player is good enough to be a potential first-round pick, it appears that they tend to favor the CHL route.
 

J22*

Guest
Yes I know this and the NCAA rule is a crock.
Serves no one but themeselves.........hurts hockey players, fans etc.
No other hockey body has such dinosaur rules.


Yes, the NCAA rule is self serving, but how is it any different than the CHL rule not allowing kids to go to the AHL?
 

bjac

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Jan 16, 2006
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If the average NHLer plays 5 seasons, why throw away 2 or 3 of them by being in school. You can do the school AFTER you are done your NHL career.

Is that too difficult for you to get?

The NCAA route is the safe bet. Most prospects (people who are drafted) won't make the NHL... So if the majority of the players won't make it, then the minority that got a free education along the way come out on top in the end. The reality of life is that you HAVE to take care of yourself first, and players who are going to college/university are doing exactly this. It isn't a video game where you can restart, if play 3 years in the OHL and don't make the big leagues then you are in the same shoes as a 18 year old highschool grad (not that being a 18 year old highscool grad is a terrible thing).
 

leoleo3535

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Feb 25, 2010
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Yes I know this and the NCAA rule is a crock.
Serves no one but themeselves.........hurts hockey players, fans etc.
No other hockey body has such dinosaur rules.


Yes, the NCAA rule is self serving, but how is it any different than the CHL rule not allowing kids to go to the AHL?

Actually that is an NHL rule.
Does it aid the CHL? yes

The intent is to keep the talent level high....reward the league/teams for developing the player.
 

leoleo3535

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Feb 25, 2010
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The NCAA route is the safe bet. Most prospects (people who are drafted) won't make the NHL... So if the majority of the players won't make it, then the minority that got a free education along the way come out on top in the end. The reality of life is that you HAVE to take care of yourself first, and players who are going to college/university are doing exactly this. It isn't a video game where you can restart, if play 3 years in the OHL and don't make the big leagues then you are in the same shoes as a 18 year old highschool grad (not that being a 18 year old highscool grad is a terrible thing).

except your education is covered by the CHL.
 

bjac

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Jan 16, 2006
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except your education is covered by the CHL.

If you can get even get into a school. If you had good highschool marks then this wouldn't be a problem, but if not, then you are in trouble. Not only have you lost 3 years in which you could be getting an education, but you might not get accepted at all.

For a kid in highschool who doesn't get good marks, they can assure an education through the NCAA by getting a paid scholarship. People who frown upon kids for making this (intelligent) decision simply can't put themselves in their shoes. I will say again, making the NHL is far from a guarantee (the odds are actually against it even if you are drafted).
 

member 51464

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the ones going to the NCAA are probably the bright ones. "If it's not working, then at least I'll already have a few years of school in a good university". Plus, going to university at 25 BEFORE a failed hockey career is a lot easier than going there AFTER a failed career. No family, no regrets...

If my 5-years old son ever gets the opportunity to choose, I hope he's going to take the NCAA (I don't think it's going to happen as he's not good at all).

:laugh:I just thought that was funny.

Anyways, I never played hockey at any level (I haven't even gone skating since I was about 7), but I do think getting the education before/during NCAA makes a lot of sense to me. I joined the military right after high school and served one enlistment before going back to my state University. Even though I was 22going on 23 when I started classes my first year, the difference in lifestyle, etc....from even the juniors/seniors who had started their studies right out of high school were rather drastic. So I think it would be very similar to someone from the CHL going and playing hockey, etc....and going back to school in their mid-20's.
 

leoleo3535

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Feb 25, 2010
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If you can get even get into a school. If you had good highschool marks then this wouldn't be a problem, but if not, then you are in trouble. Not only have you lost 3 years in which you could be getting an education, but you might not get accepted at all.

For a kid in highschool who doesn't get good marks, they can assure an education through the NCAA by getting a paid scholarship. People who frown upon kids for making this (intelligent) decision simply can't put themselves in their shoes. I will say again, making the NHL is far from a guarantee (the odds are actually against it even if you are drafted).

No, if your marks don't hold up in college you are dropped....ie Dylan Olsen- Chicago Blackhawks.........or if the college looks to reduce their budget they drop you like a rock - Taylor Stefishen.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
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I love both college hockey and WHL, but I agree with Leo. Some NCAA rules are complete bull****.

Colin Campbell though is doing a good job promoting it, but I want some these rules dropped like signing a contract in the CHL is considered pro. lol.
 
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leoleo3535

Registered User
Feb 25, 2010
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I love both college hockey and WHL, but I agree with Leo. Some NCAA rules are complete bull****.

Colin Campbell though is doing a good job promoting it, but I want some these rules dropped like signing a contract in the CHL is considered pro. lol.

Do you mean Paul Kelly?
 
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boredmale

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Jul 13, 2005
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The only real advantage for the CHL over NCAA is the 65 game schedule compared to the 40 game schedule if you looking to make hockey a career in North America. Competition wise you can make arguments on both sides(The CHL on average turns out more high end NHL players but on the flip side NCAA has more physically mature players)
 

Ban Hammered

Disallowed & Inhibited
May 15, 2003
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Yes I know this and the NCAA rule is a crock.
Serves no one but themeselves.........hurts hockey players, fans etc.
No other hockey body has such dinosaur rules.

The NCAA isn't just a college hockey body though, it's a college sports body and hockey has to follow the same rules the other sports do. If the NCAA were to allow players who'd taken money to play hockey, they would have to allow it for every other sport as well.
Some could argue they already are in football.....but that's another story.
Bottom line is that's the rules for all of the NCAA and hockey is a part of it.
 

LoveHateLeafs

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
690
327
As some others have pointed out in previous posts, very few of the elite college players stay in the NCAA for the whole four years. For example, looking at a list of good NHL players who went the college route, we have:

Toews: 2 seasons at North Dakota
St. Louis: 4 seasons at Vermont
Kesler: 1 season at Ohio State
Vanek: 2 seasons
Sharp: 2 seasons
Pavelski: 2 seasons
Kessel: 1 season
Parise: 2 seasons

In all, from the 2005-2008 drafts, there were thirty players picked in the first round who went the NCAA route. Of those 30, 16 played 2 seasons or less of college hockey and then entered the pro ranks. Only 6 played the whole 4 years (assuming Daultan Leveillé plays a 4th season). Odds are, if a player plays their full four years of college, it’s because the team that drafted them doesn’t think they’re ready for the next level.
 

LoveHateLeafs

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
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In THN’s Future Watch from last year, there was an article in which some scouts pointed out that college can be the right move for a certain type of player. According to them, the sort of stereotypical player who would benefit more from college than the CHL is one who potentially has NHL-level skills in some areas, but has flaws in other aspects of his game. In particular, they pointed to players that aren’t as physically mature or naturally strong. If a kid’s major weaknesses are in strength and conditioning, playing 80 games a year isn’t going to help him. Time in a weight room will. According to the scouts interviewed, the lighter scheduling of the NCAA allows this. Brian Burke has also expressed this viewpoint.

A lot of this feeds into the fact that an NHL team drafting a college-bound player retains their rights without signing them for the four years the player is in college. This gives the kid two extra years to mature and develop their game before the team has to make a decision. But don’t take my word for, just ask Detroit’s assistant GM:
“The new CBA forced us to change our philosophy,†Nill said. “Before, if we were going to roll the dice on a player, it was going to be a European. Now, it’s college kids. We want to get the most development time for a player before we have to make a decision on him.â€(From THN’s Future Watch 2011)
Hmmm. Sounds to me like you’re more likely to be drafted by Detroit if you choose the NCAA (provided you’re not one of those rare elite talents like Taylor Hall).

Remember, the idiotic rules that prevent CHL players from playing in the NCAA force a kid to make this decision as early as age 16, and they certainly don’t make these decisions in a vacuum. By this point in their life, their parents have invested tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours in his hockey career. Could you blame parents for steering their kid towards the NCAA, especially if they’re offered a place at a named brand school?
 

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