Why are there currently no Belarusian, Kazakh, or Ukrainian NHL players, and only one Latvian?

[Analyst365]

Hockey seems to be pretty big in Eastern Europe, though there's been hardly any players from Belarus or Romania. Why has that been the case? Do you think we will see more players from these countries in the future?

Except it's not big. There are probably more rinks in Manitoba than those two countries combined.

 

[Tkachuky]

Hockey is expensive and Romania is poor. It also doesn't have an overly cold and snowy winter. So it's not really climate friendly.

Belarus has had decent teams. And some decent players.

Romania isn’t necessarily poor. The per capita GDP is similar to Russia... very broad statement saying a country is poor.

As for winter, it’s 4 seasons with winter being cold and lots of snow.

Hockey is not popular just like American football isn’t popular.

Kids dream about being the next soccer star from the moment they can kick a ball. There no hockey on tv either. It doesn’t really get promoted.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Nonsense. For the same reason Canadians choose to play for Kazachstan a Belarussian would prefer to play for Belarus unless he is the next Ovechkin and that is not likely with Belarussians so far. It's much tougher to make the russian team, so what are you talking about?

About Karnaukhov. Since he was a highly touted prospect you picked him up, left his brother to Belarus because "meh, we don't need him". It's pretty likely they will play each other in the future, for different countries.

There is a Romanian playing in the Toronto junior A league who is quite talented

If you have Andrei Vasile in mind GMHL is as much junior A hockey league as Romania is a tier A hockey country. He also only played 30 games in the league, was rather unexceptional and came back to Romania. He is also a worse prospect than Roberto Gliga was and the later turned out to be no more than good Erste League player.

 

[MMC]

Thank you guys for correcting me on my misguided view of Romania. Edited the title to something I feel makes more sense to discuss.

 

[crobro]

Wasn’t Nicolai Borshevski Kazakh

 

[Beville]

Cos why go NHL when you can stay in Eastern Europe and play KHL instead?

 

[Atas2000]

About Karnaukhov. Since he was a highly touted prospect you picked him up, left his brother to Belarus because "meh, we don't need him". It's pretty likely they will play each other in the future, for different countries.

Who is you? GRU? How about a player deciding for himself in a single case?

And obviosly the one choosing Russia is aware he won't play for the NT. Just as I wrote it has nothing to do with some pressure. And a single case is a single case.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Cos why go NHL when you can stay in Eastern Europe and play KHL instead?

That is not the reason at all. Why do you think quite a few Russians try to make the NHL every year?

Realistically, there are very few players from those countries who could have gotten an NHL ELC, not even talking about making it, to begin with. Lauris Darzins is probably the only one I can think of who maybe, maybe could have tried going to the NHL if he wasn't being paid good money in KHL. Padakin would be the other one but he isn't even a Ukrainian anymore.

Latvia, however, is recovering from their dry run quite nicely, Balcers and Merzlikins will probably be in the NHL next year and there is still a decent chance Abols makes it down the road. Kivlenieks and Teddy Blugers still might have some chance as well. Too bad Dzierkals looks like one of the worst Toronto picks in recent history.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Who is you? GRU? How about a player deciding for himself in a single case?

And obviosly the one choosing Russia is aware he won't play for the NT. Just as I wrote it has nothing to do with some pressure. And a single case is a single case.

I wasn't talking about pressure, I was talking about being offered. Which is 100% true, it's just a fact. If Belarus had a first-round prospect brewing he would absolutely be offered to move to Russia and play for their youth NTs and all that. That's not even a question. I'm not saying GRU would tell him to play for Russia with a gun to their mom's head, obviously, it's their decision to make. But the tampering is 100% there.

It's not even the single case. If you looked at Belarus prospects section of these boards there is an entire list of such cases because being safe about not being counted as an import in the KHL is argument big enough for them to choose Russia. Karnaukhov just got a lot more publicity because would be the leader of Belarus NT down the road. Ustimenko kind of slipped under the radar even though he got drafted whole 2 rounds higher.

And it would definitely be the case with Kazakhstan and Ukraine as well just that players from those countries are more reluctant to move to Russia, probably. Well at least in Ukraine's case, in Kazakhstan's one it's just more of a problem that they don't produce talents worth tampering with.

And even then, Ukraine just lost its only legit NHL-caliber prospect to Slovakia because that's just how it works in today's hockey, apparently.

 

[Atas2000]

I wasn't talking about pressure, I was talking about being offered. Which is 100% true, it's just a fact. If Belarus had a first-round prospect brewing he would absolutely be offered to move to Russia and play for their youth NTs and all that. That's not even a question. I'm not saying GRU would tell him to play for Russia with a gun to their mom's head, obviously, it's their decision to make. But the tampering is 100% there.

It's not even the single case. If you looked at Belarus prospects section of these boards there is an entire list of such cases because being safe about not being counted as an import in the KHL is argument big enough for them to choose Russia. Karnaukhov just got a lot more publicity because would be the leader of Belarus NT down the road.

Just no. In some single case maybe. And again if it was a guy who is projected to be the next Malkin(center) maybe, but for now Belarus just doesn't produce those. It's definitely not like their talent is being lured away from them.

Those single cases are more about foreigner spots in leagues, but not national teams.

And then a Belarussian is as much a Russian as as vice versa whether you like it or not. I'd have no problem with a Russian signing a belarussian passport to play for Belarus. It's in the family. You have to feel the atmosphere at games. And if Belarus plays anybody else Russians root for them.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Just no. In some single case maybe. And again if it was a guy who is projected to be the next Malkin(center) maybe, but for now Belarus just doesn't produce those. It's definitely not like their talent is being lured away from them.

Those single cases are more about foreigner spots in leagues, but not national teams.

And then a Belarussian is as much a Russian as as vice versa whether you like it or not. I'd have no problem with a Russian signing a belarussian passport to play for Belarus. It's in the family. You have to feel the atmosphere at games. And if Belarus plays anybody else Russians root for them.

The fact remains Belarus would have at least twice as many drafted NHL prospects at this point if Ustimenko, Karnaukhov didn't pick Russia over Belarus. Not to mention that there is a decent number of Belarussian prospects who moved to Russia-based MHL teams and said goodbye to Belarussian hockey for good. We aren't discussing this from the "does it trigger your inner patriot" point of view but from the factual standpoint that it's Belarus' hockey system which is being drained. There are 5 names mentioned in the latest page of "Belarussian prospects" thread alone without digging any deeper.

And yet you say "It's definitely not like their talent is being lured away from them.". Yeah, definitely not. It's all circumstantial that prospects from Belarus move to MHL and stop answering any calls to play on its junior NTs.

And sure it's not all about strengthening the Russian NT because obviously, very few players reach that level. But there are a couple of them that will and the fact remains that a certain guy from Gomel's SDYUSHOR-5 would had been Belarus' highest picked prospect in forever had he not decided he is Russian after all.

 

[Atas2000]

The fact remains Belarus would have at least twice as many drafted NHL prospects at this point if Ustimenko, Karnaukhov didn't pick Russia over Belarus. Not to mention that there is a decent number of Belarussian prospects who moved to Russia-based MHL teams and said goodbye to Belarussian hockey for good. We aren't discussing this from the "does it trigger your inner patriot" point of view but from the factual standpoint that it's Belarus' hockey system which is being drained. There are 5 names mentioned in the latest page of "Belarussian prospects" thread alone without digging any deeper.

And yet you say "It's definitely not like their talent is being lured away from them.". Yeah, definitely not. It's all circumstantial that prospects from Belarus move to MHL and stop answering any calls to play on its junior NTs.

And sure it's not all about strengthening the Russian NT because obviously, very few players reach that level. But there are a couple of them that will and the fact remains that a certain guy from Gomel's SDYUSHOR-5 would had been Belarus' highest picked prospect in forever had he not decided he is Russian after all.

Those facts are at least partially tribute to the mistakes on all levels in belarussian hockey. I am actually surprised they can't sort it out for so long.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Those facts are at least partially tribute to the mistakes on all levels in belarussian hockey. I am actually surprised they can't sort it out for so long.

And on the other end of the spectre, there is a KHL rule where the Belarussian player still needs to take Russian citizenship if he doesn't want to count against import limit. Despite the whole CIS thing and the comradeship of nations and all that. Which is talked about every year and never "fixed", I wonder why?

 

[Garl]

Nonsense. For the same reason Canadians choose to play for Kazachstan a Belarussian would prefer to play for Belarus unless he is the next Ovechkin and that is not likely with Belarussians so far. It's much tougher to make the russian team, so what are you talking about?

Holy Russia can do no wrong! We are always right!

Karnaukhov, Ostapchuk, Misyul brothers, Voloshenko

For Kazakhstan Sergiyenko, Koshelev from the recent examples, but there are many more

From Ukraine the list is huge

 

[Garl]

Just no. In some single case maybe. And again if it was a guy who is projected to be the next Malkin(center) maybe, but for now Belarus just doesn't produce those. It's definitely not like their talent is being lured away from them.

Those single cases are more about foreigner spots in leagues, but not national teams.

And then a Belarussian is as much a Russian as as vice versa whether you like it or not. I'd have no problem with a Russian signing a belarussian passport to play for Belarus. It's in the family. You have to feel the atmosphere at games. And if Belarus plays anybody else Russians root for them.

LOL, sure you'd have no problem with that. Because that would be some low-level VHLer like Evgeny Kovyrshin.

 

[Atas2000]

Holy Russia can do no wrong! We are always right!

Karnaukhov, Ostapchuk, Misyul brothers, Voloshenko

For Kazakhstan Sergiyenko, Koshelev from the recent examples, but there are many more

From Ukraine the list is huge

That is what YOU say.

I say the Belarussians and Ukarainians(by passport) are just fleeing sinking ships in different states of sunk. In Belarus there is a still hockey. The state of affairs in the Ukraine is just scorched earth. You can't blame the players.

Kazachstan though again is a special case. Any kazakh names on your list? Too few ethnic Kazakhs playing hockey still.

 

[SoundAndFury]

For Kazakhstan Sergiyenko, Koshelev from the recent examples,

Seriously, completely forgot about those Very recent ones as well and they both even played for Kazakhstan's U20.

 

[Atas2000]

LOL, sure you'd have no problem with that. Because that would be some low-level VHLer like Evgeny Kovyrshin.

Nothinig to snicker at here. Say Belarus sorts out it's hockey system in 10-20 years. Why wouldn't a high profile Russian want to be on their team if he is somehow unhappy with russian coaches? It doesn't seem likely now, but things change.

 

[Garl]

That is what YOU say.

I say the Belarussians and Ukarainians(by passport) are just fleeing sinking ships in different states of sunk. In Belarus there is a still hockey. The state of affairs in the Ukraine is just scorched earth. You can't blame the players.

Kazachstan though again is a special case. Any kazakh names on your list? Too few ethnic Kazakhs playing hockey still.

These players moved to Russia to develop as hockey players, this is what players from many countries do(even russians themselves).
However, danes or slovaks are not perssured to play for Team Sweden for example. But Ukrainians and Belarusians are.

Some of the Belarus players which I mentioned played for Russian NT and of course were sought out by FHR.

Kazakh players that I mentioned transfered to Russia to play in KHL and not be counted as an import. Both were probably the best Kazakhstan prospects in 10 years and played for Kazakhstan in WJC.

As for Ukraine, sure their hockey program is ruined, however it is not the only factor. Again, they are imports, so they change their passport. Padakin is the recent example.

 

[Garl]

Nothinig to snicker at here. Say Belarus sorts out it's hockey system in 10-20 years. Why wouldn't a high profile Russian want to be on their team if he is somehow unhappy with russian coaches? It doesn't seem likely now, but things change.

This would be one weird high profile russian.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Khudobin is Kazakh.

 

[Garl]

Khudobin is Kazakh.

Not really. Khudobin never played for Kazakhstan. He is also an ethnic russian.

Now, not many people know that, in Russia many are clueless aswell, but there was mostly non-violent ethnic cleansing of russians in Central Asia. At the moment of USSR fall russians constituted around 45% of Kazakhstan population. Now, the number is 19%. While Kazakh population almost doubled, russian population lost around 50% in numbers. A lot of russians moved, because russians, ukrainians and belarusians are disciminated in the workforce.

 

[93LEAFS]

Belarus:

• Presence of the city of Minsk with ~2 M population
• KHL Team Dynamo Minsk
• 23 KHL Players

Romania:

• Bucharest population 1.8 M, Romania ~20 M
• Romanian Hockey League

Considering a country like Slovenia has 3 NHLers, most notably Kopitar I think it's likely or at least possible to see a great player out of Belarus. Minsk is one of the Top3/Top5 arenas in all of Europe for attendance. Comparable to St. Petersburg, Bern, and Cologne. Josi is from Bern & Draisaitl is from Cologne. DEL, NL, and KHL are good enough leagues to develop a young player in their top markets as I have demonstrated. It's only that the right kid gets interested and sticks with it. We're not going to see an explosion of talent, but some outlier certainly could show up.

Kopitar is such an outlier, that trying to pick where else it could happen is pointless. For example, Matthews is an extreme outlier for a Southern State (not culturally, its a frontier state, but geographically), that predicting that another high-end NHL could come out of the south isn't unrealistic, but predicting which state such as saying North Carolina, Tennessee, etc is unrealistic. Florida, Texas and California are a bit of exception just due to population size, and they have current NHLers who are good (most notably Gostisbehere for Florida, and Seth Jones for Texas).

So, while I expect another star NHLer to come out of a smaller non-traditional European market in the upcoming years like Kopitar, trying to pick which one and say its likely is pointless. Although, we haven't seen an elite NHLer come from an Eastern European country that doesn't have a strong hockey history (Russia, Czech Republic and Slovakia) outside of Kopitar in awhile.

 

[Atas2000]

Khudobin is Kazakh.

Khudobin is russian. You have trouble realizing how this works because the US and Canada are basically countries of immigrants.

Still Khudobin is an ethnic Russian with a russian citizenship.

 

[Atas2000]

This would be one weird high profile russian.

It only takes one little conflict...

Plenty of examples in sports.