Who's the better Ronaldo, Brazilian or Portuguese?

[Cassano]

You must not have seen your recent posts about Podolski still belonging on the German NT.

I was thinking more along the lines of Dortmund being a top 3 team in Europe - that was not too long ago. \_(ツ)_/

 

[Deficient Mode]

I was thinking more along the lines of Dortmund being a top 3 team in Europe - that was not too long ago. \_(ツ)_/

It was true at the time!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Good thread, huh? I wonder who started it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I meant when Rooney and CR7 were on the same team that Rooney was one of the best players in the world...And other than Ronaldo's last season he had an argument of being on CR7's level. Obviously know that is not the case, but Rooney in the late 2000's was an unreal player.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd say Ronaldo isn't nearly as good as they are. Modric was the real MVP of Real's 2014 CL win tbh.

I'd say the MVP of that game was Di Maria, he was unbelievable.

 

[Corto]

I'd say Ronaldo isn't nearly as good as they are. Modric was the real MVP of Real's 2014 CL win tbh.

Modric was the MoM, and is perhaps the world's best CM.

But that CL final is one game.
That's like saying Messi "isn't nearly as good as Suarez or Rakitic are", because those two carried Barca last time they played a CL final.

Not to mention, Luka Modric will the FIRST to tell you Ronaldo is the best player on that team and only Messi is in his teir.

 

[Evilo]

Has the actual physical voting process changed? Or just the prevailing mindsets

Yes, the voting has changed.
They've mixed the real Ballon d'Or with the FIFA player of the year, meaning journalists, captains and coaches are mixed.
The captain of say Saudi Arabia counts for as much as the coach of Spain.

 

[les Habs]

Modric was the MoM, and is perhaps the world's best CM.

But that CL final is one game.
That's like saying Messi "isn't nearly as good as Suarez or Rakitic are", because those two carried Barca last time they played a CL final.

Not to mention, Luka Modric will the FIRST to tell you Ronaldo is the best player on that team and only Messi is in his teir.

Suarez and Rakitic didn't carry the team in the last CL Final.

Messi isn't on Ronaldo's tier. Messi is on his own tier which is above Ronaldo's.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Suarez and Rakitic didn't carry the team in the last CL Final.

Messi isn't on Ronaldo's tier. Messi is on his own tier which is above Ronaldo's.

Well they scored their goals that game so nobody else could've carried them.

 

[Suiteness]

I meant when Rooney and CR7 were on the same team that Rooney was one of the best players in the world...And other than Ronaldo's last season he had an argument of being on CR7's level. Obviously know that is not the case, but Rooney in the late 2000's was an unreal player.

Rooney was never close to being the best of anything. He had a great coming out party at Euro 2004 but he levelled off right there. He never was better than what he showed at that tournament at 18 years of age.

 

[Ceremony]

Rooney bordered on being called world class for about six months in 2009. That's it.

 

[Jussi]

Rooney bordered on being called world class for about six months in 2009. That's it.

He was having possibly his best season in 2009-10, United were a different team after his ankle injury against Bayern happened.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Modric was the MoM, and is perhaps the world's best CM.

But that CL final is one game.
That's like saying Messi "isn't nearly as good as Suarez or Rakitic are", because those two carried Barca last time they played a CL final.

Not to mention, Luka Modric will the FIRST to tell you Ronaldo is the best player on that team and only Messi is in his teir.

I meant the whole campaign, not one match. I don't really care what Modric says to appease Cristiano.

 

[gary69]

Yes, the voting has changed.
They've mixed the real Ballon d'Or with the FIFA player of the year, meaning journalists, captains and coaches are mixed.
The captain of say Saudi Arabia counts for as much as the coach of Spain.

The most notable chance took place in 1995, when non-European players could be selected for the award.

Also previously it was only the journalists voting, and as Evilo hinted, the winner was more often a (top) player with a great season, rather than a player considered "just" the best player in the world at that time.

So there was more of a MVP or Conn Smythe feeling (to use hockey terms) to the award previously.

There are valid reasons for ctiticism in both voting prosedures, and the results aren't that often clear-cut, so anyone using them as a gospel and without a context, is too superficial (much like with using plain stats without context).

 

[Corto]

I meant the whole campaign, not one match. I don't really care what Modric says to appease Cristiano.

He said it, repeatedly, to local Croatian media, I very much doubt Ronaldo reads up on Croatian newspapers.

But hey, you apparently not only know football better than Modric, you also seem to know why he says some stuff he says, so... Yeah.

 

[les Habs]

Well they scored their goals that game so nobody else could've carried them.

It was a team effort and the biggest impact was made by Neymar for me. Still Messi had a good match as did Iniesta.

 

[Evilo]

He said it, repeatedly, to local Croatian media, I very much doubt Ronaldo reads up on Croatian newspapers.

But hey, you apparently not only know football better than Modric, you also seem to know why he says some stuff he says, so... Yeah.

I know football better than Pele and Maradona.
Does that make me a genius?

 

[The Abusement Park]

It was a team effort and the biggest impact was made by Neymar for me. Still Messi had a good match as did Iniesta.

So clearly Neymar is the better player than Messi.

 

[les Habs]

So clearly Neymar is the better player than Messi.

Maybe in the bubble that you occupy and with your line of reasoning.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Maybe in the bubble that you occupy and with your line of reasoning.

I mean that's been everyone above's reasoning. "Ronaldo wasn't the best player in the final, therefore Modric or Benzema or better players."

 

[gary69]

Yep, hence all the records Ronaldo hasn't broken.

...wait.

Obviously Cristiano Ronaldo isn't the godlike player the number crunchers and bean counters here like to present him.

If it was him doing it all by himself (regardless of the strenght of his club teammates' and team's much better quality and tactics especially suitable for him, relative to the quality of the opponents at club level), he would be producing at the same level for Portugal as well.

But in real world he isn't produding at the same level, but at worse level than for example Zlatan Ibrahimovic did for Sweden.

In the real world tactics and teammates matter.

So true level for Cristiano Ronaldo is somewhere between the Real Madrid one and the Portugal one. Not the best, but one of the best of his generation, who found the perfect place to play into his strenghts.

 

[Deficient Mode]

He said it, repeatedly, to local Croatian media, I very much doubt Ronaldo reads up on Croatian newspapers.

But hey, you apparently not only know football better than Modric, you also seem to know why he says some stuff he says, so... Yeah.

Surely you can't be that ignorant of how the media works. If he had said it to the Croatian media, the crazy Spanish media would have picked up on it and it could have easily ruined the locker room chemistry. The point is that if he did think he himself was better than Cristiano, he couldn't say it.

Secondly, even if he does believe Cristiano is a better player than he is, that is not the unquestioned truth, and I'm in no way obligated to share his opinion just because he's a top pro and I'm on my keyboard.

I mean that's been everyone above's reasoning. "Ronaldo wasn't the best player in the final, therefore Modric or Benzema or better players."

Modric and Benzema were not just better players in the final.

 

[Corto]

Obviously Cristiano Ronaldo isn't the godlike player the number crunchers and bean counters here like to present him.

If it was him doing it all by himself (regardless of the strenght of his club teammates' and team's much better quality and tactics especially suitable for him, relative to the quality of the opponents at club level), he would be producing at the same level for Portugal as well.

It's football. One player can't win games on his own.
As evidenced by Messi, Ronaldo or Ibrahimovic in their national teams. Or George freaking Weah.

Surely, you can see the flaw in your logic.

 

[gary69]

It's football. One player can't win games on his own.
As evidenced by Messi, Ronaldo or Ibrahimovic in their national teams. Or George freaking Weah.

Surely, you can see the flaw in your logic.

Uh, that was my whole point, if it wasn't clear enough. Ronaldo is a product of his team (as is everybody more or less), especially at club level.

 

[Corto]

Uh, that was my whole point, if it wasn't clear enough. Ronaldo is a product of his team (as is everybody more or less), especially at club level.

Yes and no.

Put another top player in his place, he won't get anywhere near the ridiculous numbers he gets.
Same with Barca, put another CAM/false 9 there, a world class one... Someone like Hazard (though he had an off year). Barca maybe still wins trophies (though without Messi, I wouldn't bet on it, the competition is tight in Spain with Real and Atletico), but you think Hazard put up these numbers? Yes, he's not all about goals, but neither is Messi.

It goes both ways, Ronaldo and Messi feed off their team - sure, and they wouldn't be putting up these numbers in Sportin Gijon,... But there's a reason they're the focal point of those teams.
If it was so easy, we'd have people breaking 40 league goals left and right.
Like I mentioned, up until Suarez showed up last year, everyone else is struggling to get past 20.