Crosby
Injuries took away from him the chance to pass Howe.
Healthy Crosby wins the 11,12,13, and 15 art Ross trophies along with hart+lindsay combos in 3 of the 4. 07/08 he would have also been closer to the Ross though I think he ends up losing out. His 3 best years were unfortunately riddled with injuries from 11-13
Would love to hear his argument for #4 lolJagr is #5 for me.
Maybe even #4.
He didn’t do that though. You’re giving him credit for things he never accomplished. If you want to look at it that way then if Jagr never went to Russia then he’d be the undisputed number 5.
I would disagree with the belief of a czech team that had no chance of medaling, they were very much a contender in those days, czech hockey was far stronger then, as evidenced by having players like jagr and hasek on their roster.I went with Hasek. He is the best goalie I've ever seen and it's not even close imo. The teams he played on in Buffalo were not good but he took them to a cup final regardless. He has the most Vezinas and is the only goalie to win 2 Harts. His later Cups with Detroir cemented his NHL legacy.
In Nagano he took a team that had no place even competing for a medal all the way to gold. After the game Gretzky called him the best player in the game period. That right there says it all. It's hard to rank goalies with positional players but imo I cant see him going any lower than 5th.
Would love to hear his argument for #4 lol
I would disagree with the belief of a czech team that had no chance of medaling, they were very much a contender in those days, czech hockey was far stronger then, as evidenced by having players like jagr and hasek on their roster.
Were they the heavy favourite that year? no, but they were very much looked on as a strong contender to medal, even when they won gold it was not shocking. I mean, they were the easily the 3rd best hockey country for quite some time, loooong before the u.s and swedens and finlands of the world became really serious threats in best on bests.
I think you are forgetting just how good they used to be.
You are correct, they were probably fifth fave going in.Still, everyone knew they were dangerous just on jagr and hasek alone.I remember when discussing the teams on tsn before the tournament and when it came to the czechs the guy said.."what if jagr scores a beautiful goal and the other team can't buy one all night on hasek? and the guy was right too, any one game against them that could easily happen. And that wasn't all their talent on the team either, the czechs were so much better then, truly one of the hockey powers(i think they won the whc that year to boot!!) they are now a shadow of their former selves, but back then they were a serious contender.I will give you that I may have been a tad hyperbolic in mine assessment of their chance but at best they were the fifth favorite to win gold. Russia, USA and Canada were the top three teams and Sweden was also more highly regarded at the time. I would say 30-1 would have been there odds st best to start tournament. When I get home I'll try and find the odds to back up that statement. They were certainly a talented team with all NhL calaber players and a few HoFers but no where near as deep as the top 3 teams especially. Canada's entire rosters are basically in the HOF and.... anyhow I didnt mean it as a diss to Czech really impressive resume in the history of hockey. I'm old enough to remember them back in their haydar. Just maybe exaggerated outta respect for Hasek. He was a God to me and I hate Buffalo and Chicago kinda lol.
Gretzky? Yeah, he was a Jet killer but I still respect him.
Mario? He could dream about scoring a goal during his afternoon map and it would appear on the scoreboard before he got to the game.
That Ovechkin guy? Tell you what, one more Rocket Richard Trophy and I'll put him over Bobby Hull.
I put him up there with Howe for #4.
Both had very long careers and both produced very well into their 40's.
At age 43 Jagr still scored 66 points in the NHL. That's ridiculous.
From 1995 through 2001 Jagr won 5 of 7 Art Ross trophies.
The other two? Mario Lemieux.
2nd all-time in points.
Fifteen consecutive 30-goal seasons. Fifteen!
If you buy into the era-adjusted goals stat, Jagr is the greatest goal scorer of all time, even ahead of Gretzky.
5th all-time in playoff scoring, the other 4 all played for the 80's Oilers.
I feel privileged to have watched his entire career even though he never played for my team and killed them in the 1992 Finals.
Would love to hear his argument for #4 lol
Crosby might have a claim for 5th best player but certainly not 5th greatest.
Greatest means accomplishments, personal or team, without considering other factors. That he was injured and missed out on some personal awards affects his greatness.
Hull, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Roy and Hasek are all good choices for 5th best.
To me it's actually the opposite he might have a, weak, case for 5th greatest: succesful in winning championships, individual trophies, concistent and very marketed. 5th best? No way with that peak, don't give me half a season peaks because then players like Rantanen would stack up well.
That Crosby is winning this poll just shows the Canadian and recency bias this site often falls into, and then you even have people in the very same thread proclaiming that he doesn't get enough praise? Bonkers.
It'll probably be mcdavid by the time he is done.
Those tight 60's were pretty "numerically elite".Hull has better top 10 finishes to be sure 11-8 but Ovechkin is playing in a more numerically elite atmosphere than Hull ever played in.
The WHA years, when Hull still had a few elite scoring years left, greatly skewed his overall numbers. See Bobby Hull at 34 and 36 look totally dominant against the Red Army and you'd see what I mean. Therefore, I still put him ahead of Ovechkin as the greatest goal scorer of all time. But that's today. Ovechkin seems to have enough in the gas tank to overtake him, but for me, that hasn't happened yet.Why would the guy with 8 Richards need a 9th to be better than a guy who has 7?