Who will leave the bigger legacy: Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin?

[Gurglesons]

Imagine calling Alex Ovechkins career a “what if”

Imagine thinking Ovechkin is a top five player all time because he scored a ton of goals.

I guess it makes sense, before Ovie Caps had Gartner who they tried to make the same arguments for. Fact is there is more to hockey than goals.

If Ovechkin breaks the goalscoring record or wins another cup with a similar performance he can likely leave a “bigger legacy” than Sid. But the fact of the matter is any comparison between the two will involve the fact Sid devastated him head to head where and when it mattered. Which is where legacies lay and it’s why Gretzky and Lemieux have the legacies they do.

Orr and Howe’s legacies are built around different pillars. Compare Ovie and Sid with those four and it’s pretty obvious at this point who is more like the others.

 

[HTFN]

If he breaks the goalscoring record, it’ll likely change the narrative, but if he finishes behind Gretzky and Howe (doubtful but possible) and has no more team success it will 100% be a what if. When you look back at Ovechkin’s career it’ll be what could have been if he devoted himself to being a team player. I don’t agree with the narrative, but it’s pretty clear that will be the narrative. Kind of like Malkin’s will be what could have been if he was on his own squad.

One needs to look at how Brett Hull is viewed despite his ridiculous goalscoring numbers. And dude has two cups.

The only what if surrounding Ovechkin’s career is wondering how many goals he lost due to work stoppages. Beyond that I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing, not sure what’s clear about it except that it would be preferable to some.

 

[Gurglesons]

The only what if surrounding Ovechkin’s career is wondering how many goals he lost due to work stoppages. Beyond that I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing, not sure what’s clear about it except that it would be preferable to some.

It’s clear when you look back historically. I get it. Ovechkin has pulled all of our heart strings by looking like he can challenge Gretzky’s record. If he doesn’t how does it look? Also, if you are comfortable using the what if narrative for Ovechkin you need to use it for Sid.

And if Ovechkin goes down as “the 2nd best goal scorer of all time”. Guess who beat him twice at that when he was healthy? Sid.

 

[max21]

Imagine thinking Ovechkin is a top five player all time because he scored a ton of goals.

I guess it makes sense, before Ovie Caps had Gartner who they tried to make the same arguments for. Fact is there is more to hockey than goals.

If Ovechkin breaks the goalscoring record or wins another cup with a similar performance he can likely leave a “bigger legacy” than Sid. But the fact of the matter is any comparison between the two will involve the fact Sid devastated him head to head where and when it mattered. Which is where legacies lay and it’s why Gretzky and Lemieux have the legacies they do.

Orr and Howe’s legacies are built around different pillars. Compare Ovie and Sid with those four and it’s pretty obvious at this point who is more like the others.

Bruh I understand that, no one here is going to argue that Sid has Ovechkins number. He most definitely does. With Ovechkin finally getting his Cup and Smythe his legacy is cemented, not to mention he’s steamrolling through the record books now. Calling him just a team player is ridiculous also, dude is visibly mad and upset when the team loses. If you weren’t so biased you’d actually respect and watch his dominance. When they’re both not playing anymore they will be sorely missed. I loathe the penguins with respect but I’d never once call Crosby’s career a “what if” even if the roles were reversed.

 

[HTFN]

It’s clear when you look back historically. I get it. Ovechkin has pulled all of our heart strings by looking like he can challenge Gretzky’s record. If he doesn’t how does it look? Also, if you are comfortable using the what if narrative for Ovechkin you need to use it for Sid.

What in the world? I’m saying all your “what if” bullshit is your opinion but hardly some widely held belief, and if one applies to Ovechkin’s career it’s only about how many games we were robbed of, not whether he needed to be some other kind of player and if it would have done anything for his team or not.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bruh I understand that, no one here is going to argue that Sid has Ovechkins number. He most definitely does. With Ovechkin finally getting his Cup and Smythe his legacy is cemented, not to mention he’s steamrolling through the record books now. Calling him just a team player is ridiculous also, dude is visibly mad and upset when the team loses. If you weren’t so biased you’d actually respect and watch his dominance. When they’re both not playing anymore they will be sorely missed. I loathe the penguins with respect but I’d never once call Crosby’s career a “what if” even if the roles were reversed.

Who said I don’t respect Ovechkin?

The fact is Ovechkin and Crosby’s careers will not be comparable in a historic context unless Ovie breaks the goal record or wins another Cup.

 

[Gurglesons]

What in the world? I’m saying all your “what if” bullshit is your opinion but hardly some widely held belief, and if one applies to Ovechkin’s career it’s only about how many games we were robbed of, not whether he needed to be some other kind of player and if it would have done anything for his team or not.

Nobody will view it this way in a historic context.

If Ovechkin fails to break Gretzky’s record. It’ll be a total case of what ifs just like Crosby. The issue is Crosby has won everything Ovie has won. And tripled his cup appearances and is one of two forwards to win back to back Smythes.

Add in the golden goal and the PPG record that he is trending towards and Crosby will be viewed as Forsberg is around here but on steroids once he gets legacy points for retiring. Especially considering the level of human he is on top of it.

 

[HTFN]

Nobody will view it this way in a historic context.

.... why? Because people like you won’t stop devoting yourselves to the crusade?

You’ll definitely make it harder on people than it needs to be running around parroting a narrative based on unfounded character assault, but legacies are also based on respect commanded from your peers and none of them share your concerns. Guy has never failed to be a team player, it’s just the stupidest. We were collectively past this forever ago.

 

[Gurglesons]

.... why? Because people like you won’t stop devoting yourselves to the crusade?

You’ll definitely make it harder on people than it needs to be running around parroting a narrative based on unfounded character assault, but legacies are also based on respect commanded from your peers and none of them share your concerns. Guy has never failed to be a team player, it’s just the stupidest. We were collectively past this forever ago.

Ask any player in the NHL right now who is the best player over Sid and Ovie’s career. We all know who the answer is.

You’re also changing the argument. The argument is legacy. Ovechkin historically will be viewed as a player that did it once if he doesn’t do it again. Crosby will be viewed as the player that went 3-1 against him. While beating him out twice for a Richard when that wasn’t even his skill. Then you throw in international competition and it’s just frankly embarrassing for Ovechkin.

Once again. This is legacy, not my personal view of Ovechkin who I think has plenty of a case to be mentioned in Sid’s same breath.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think Ovechkin is being overrated just a little bit these days. He’s only hit the 30 assist mark three times in the last 9 seasons.

He’s basically purely focusing on goal-scoring. Which in and of itself deserves praise, but there have been very few seasons throughout his career where I viewed him as the best player in the league.

 

[HTFN]

Nobody will view it this way in a historic context.

If Ovechkin fails to break Gretzky’s record. It’ll be a total case of what ifs just like Crosby. The issue is Crosby has won everything Ovie has won. And tripled his cup appearances and is one of two forwards to win back to back Smythes.

Add in the golden goal and the PPG record that he is trending towards and Crosby will be viewed as Forsberg is around here but on steroids once he gets legacy points for retiring. Especially considering the level of human he is on top of it.

No, I think the general consensus around here has pretty much been that we’re already watching the greatest goal scorer of all time and the rest is largely window dressing. The record itself would be really useful to point out when touching the basics but a lot of people seem pretty on board with the notion that he doesn’t necessarily need the raw number to be recognized for what he’s doing in the era he’s doing it in.

 

[max21]

I think Ovechkin is being overrated just a little bit these days. He’s only hit the 30 assist mark three times in the last 9 seasons.

He’s basically purely focusing on goal-scoring. Which in and of itself deserves praise, but there have been very few seasons throughout his career where I viewed him as the best player in the league.

Overrating a 34 year old who’s sharing the lead so far for the rocket with 48 goals? Hitting 700 goals this year. Wtf?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Overrating a 34 year old who’s sharing the lead so far for the rocket with 48 goals? Hitting 700 goals this year. Wtf?

I just don’t see him as a top-5, or Top-10 player of all-time when he’s rarely been the best player in the league throughout his career.

That’s the kind of talk I hear sometimes about Ovechkin and I don’t think he’s quite that good.

 

[HTFN]

Ask any player in the NHL right now who is the best player over Sid and Ovie’s career. We all know who the answer is.

You’re also changing the argument. The argument is legacy. Ovechkin historically will be viewed as a player that did it once if he doesn’t do it again. Crosby will be viewed as the player that went 3-1 against him. While beating him out twice for a Richard when that wasn’t even his skill. Then you throw in international competition and it’s just frankly embarrassing for Ovechkin.

Once again. This is legacy, not my personal view of Ovechkin who I think has plenty of a case to be mentioned in Sid’s same breath.

I’m not changing the argument by addressing your fortune telling, and this “people will forever ask ‘what if’ about Ovechkin’s career” malarkey.

You say he has a case but you don’t ever state it. Plenty of opportunity but instead you want to build a narrative around supposition instead of fact. You’re not actually interested in playing this one with any intellectual honesty, you’re just talking out of both sides of your mouth and hoping people won’t notice. It’s the “I have plenty of ____ friends” defense. The “not that there’s anything wrong with that”.

You think when it comes to Ovechkin and the Rocket Richard trophy people are going to look at his career, his numerous wins, his totals, the two Crosby Rockets and come to the conclusion that... the guy with more wins than anybody isn’t all that hot and the other guy could have won more of them “if he wanted to”? That nothing is worth investigating in those down years for Ovechkin, just your average, run of the mill decline before ramping back up into the stratosphere like all veteran career arcs?

You don’t honestly think you’re doing both of them equal justice in your posts, do you? You think people will remember Ovechkin for his one cup and that’s where his story ends, but people will forever recall Crosby’s two rockets and the golden goal?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Overrating a 34 year old who’s sharing the lead so far for the rocket with 48 goals? Hitting 700 goals this year. Wtf?

When was the last time you could actually say ovechkin was the best player in the world? Hint it’s been 10 years

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m not changing the argument by addressing your fortune telling, and this “people will forever ask ‘what if’ about Ovechkin’s career” malarkey.

You say he has a case but you don’t ever state it. Plenty of opportunity but instead you want to build a narrative around supposition instead of fact. You’re not actually interested in playing this one with any intellectual honesty, you’re just talking out of both sides of your mouth and hoping people won’t notice. It’s the “I have plenty of ____ friends” defense. The “not that there’s anything wrong with that”.

You think when it comes to Ovechkin and the Rocket Richard trophy people are going to look at his career, his numerous wins, his totals, the two Crosby Rockets and come to the conclusion that... the guy with more wins than anybody isn’t all that hot and the other guy could have won more of them “if he wanted to”? That nothing is worth investigating in those down years for Ovechkin, just your average, run of the mill decline before ramping back up into the stratosphere like all veteran career arcs?

You don’t honestly think you’re doing both of them equal justice in your posts, do you? You think people will remember Ovechkin for his one cup and that’s where his story ends, but people will forever recall Crosby’s two rockets and the golden goal?

Bobby Hull, Brett Hull, Mike Bossy, etc. the players that have defined elite goal scoring have never risen to the ranks of the all time great point producers historically.

You’re looking at things through the current bias. Nobody will do that when history has passed along and Ovechkin and Sid are no longer the narrative. And when that happens, Sid has clearly had the legacy career which is championships and team success.

 

[max21]

When was the last time you could actually say ovechkin was the best player in the world? Hint it’s been 10 years

Very cool, please state where I said he’s been the best player in the world recently. All I did was criticize a comment saying Alexander Ovechkins career has been a “what if” which honestly is a joke

 

[max21]

I just don’t see him as a top-5, or Top-10 player of all-time when he’s rarely been the best player in the league throughout his career.

That’s the kind of talk I hear sometimes about Ovechkin and I don’t think he’s quite that good.

Lmao I’ll be sure to call the next Aves player who hits 48 goals “not that good”

 

[Gurglesons]

Very cool, please state where I said he’s been the best player in the world recently. All I did was criticize a comment saying Alexander Ovechkins career has been a “what if” which honestly is a joke

We aren’t talking what if in terms of careers we are talking what if in terms of top ten NHL legacies.

Ovechkin has easily had one of the best careers in NHL history. The issue is Crosby has had arguably the best since Lemieux retired.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Lmao I’ll be sure to call the next Aves player who hits 48 goals “not that good”

You are misrepresenting what I said. Try actually reading the post.

I said he’s not a Top-10 player of all-time.

He’s a fabulous player, but not a top-10 player in league history.

 

[max21]

You are misrepresenting what I said. Try actually reading the post.

I said he’s not a Top-10 player of all-time.

He’s a fabulous player, but not a top-10 player in league history.

I lost you at actually calling a 48 goal scorer this year overrated who also eclipsed 700 goals this year that only 8 players have done in NHL history.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I lost you at actually calling a 48 goal scorer this year overrated who also eclipsed 700 goals this year that only 8 players have done in NHL history.

I mean, you can hear what you want to hear I guess. If you feel like picking certain parts of a post and removing all context that’s fine.

He might be top ten in goal scoring, but it doesn’t make him a top-ten player.

 

[max21]

I mean, you can hear what you want to hear I guess. If you feel like picking certain parts of a post and removing all context that’s fine.

He might be top ten in goal scoring, but it doesn’t make him a top-ten player.

Your first post said nothing about him being a top ten player thats not what I’m arguing with you about, I was arguing over the fact you called him overrated. That is your opinion, although a terrible one it certainly is an opinion.

 

[HTFN]

Bobby Hull, Brett Hull, Mike Bossy, etc. the players that have defined elite goal scoring have never risen to the ranks of the all time great point producers historically.

You’re looking at things through the current bias. Nobody will do that when history has passed along and Ovechkin and Sid are no longer the narrative. And when that happens, Sid has clearly had the legacy career which is championships and team success.

You keep telling me that what’s going to be remembered through this era is that Crosby got some Rocket wins in against Ovechkin, not that Ovechkin won more of them than anyone. Not, you know, 700 and counting goals, but you say what we’ll remember is that Crosby won it twice when it “wasn’t even his thing”?

which, is itself, rewriting history. He didn’t just accidentally figure out he had 50 goal potential all along, he worked like a demon (guy always does) to bring his scoring touch up to the next level and did for a while, but made a concentrated and noticeable effort to do so, it was making news and everything. Those years he made it his thing, no doubt about it.

 

[Gurglesons]

You keep telling me that what’s going to be remembered through this era is that Crosby got some Rocket wins in against Ovechkin, not that Ovechkin won more of them than anyone. Not, you know, 700 and counting goals, but you say what we’ll remember is that Crosby won it twice when it “wasn’t even his thing”?

which, is itself, rewriting history. He didn’t just accidentally figure out he had 50 goal potential all along, he worked like a demon (guy always does) to bring his scoring touch up to the next level and did for a while, but made a concentrated and noticeable effort to do so, it was making news and everything. Those years he made it his thing, no doubt about it.

Ah. So the narrative will be when Crosby made goal scoring his thing he outscored the greatest goal scorer of all time twice, while running through his team which was the on paper favorite in every one of those series and beating him in all three international series as well?