Who will leave the bigger legacy: Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin?

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Northern Avs Fan

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Your first post said nothing about him being a top ten player thats not what I’m arguing with you about, I was arguing over the fact you called him overrated. That is your opinion, although a terrible one it certainly is an opinion.

I outlined why I felt he is being a little overrated right now. Some people are trying to put him in the same category as Gretzky because he’s chasing his goal scoring record.

It’s an outlandish proposition to even consider.
 

GreatGonzo

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Imagine thinking Ovechkin is a top five player all time because he scored a ton of goals.

I guess it makes sense, before Ovie Caps had Gartner who they tried to make the same arguments for. Fact is there is more to hockey than goals.

If Ovechkin breaks the goalscoring record or wins another cup with a similar performance he can likely leave a “bigger legacy” than Sid. But the fact of the matter is any comparison between the two will involve the fact Sid devastated him head to head where and when it mattered. Which is where legacies lay and it’s why Gretzky and Lemieux have the legacies they do.

Orr and Howe’s legacies are built around different pillars. Compare Ovie and Sid with those four and it’s pretty obvious at this point who is more like the others.
Ovechkin breaking the goal scoring record would put his name above everyone else who has ever played. You are talking about a record that was said to never get broken, and he still has a legitimate chance to do so. Ovechkin is ten times the player and goal scorer Gartner was, so they don’t really have anything in common. This would make him more of a legend in the best sense of the word. Yes, there is more to scoring goals, but the point of hockey is to score goals, and breaking one of the most prestigious all time Gretzky Records would add a ton to his already cemented legacy. But both players aren’t top 5 regardless, while I’d put both in the top 10.

also, Sid’s “devastation” over Ovechkin when it matters?....
Ovechkin: 26-15-18-33
Crosby: 25-13-17-30

I don’t see anything “devastating” about that. Maybe do your research before making such claims?
I just don’t see him as a top-5, or Top-10 player of all-time when he’s rarely been the best player in the league throughout his career.

That’s the kind of talk I hear sometimes about Ovechkin and I don’t think he’s quite that good.
Luckily your opinion means little to the hockey community :laugh: no actual hockey fan would say that the guy with 700+ goals, 3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 8 Rockets, an Art Ross “isn’t quite good.”
Bobby Hull, Brett Hull, Mike Bossy, etc. the players that have defined elite goal scoring have never risen to the ranks of the all time great point producers historically.

You’re looking at things through the current bias. Nobody will do that when history has passed along and Ovechkin and Sid are no longer the narrative. And when that happens, Sid has clearly had the legacy career which is championships and team success.
And Ovechkin redefined goal scoring, and did things that those guys never did. All in a lower scoring era.

Sid will always be remembered as the better player, but if Ovechkin breaks the record, I believe it will impact his legacy greater.
 

GreatGonzo

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Ah. So the narrative will be when Crosby made goal scoring his thing he outscored the greatest goal scorer of all time twice, while running through his team which was the on paper favorite in every one of those series and beating him in all three international series as well?
You are really going to compare Canada to Russia and still try to make Crosby the headliner for that? Ok bud....

I mean are you going to remember the scoring titles Crosby won or the fact that the greatest player of our generation and of all time lost scoring titles to Jamie Benn, Henrik Sedin, MSL, and Patrick Kane?......
 
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Gurglesons

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Ovechkin breaking the goal scoring record would put his name above everyone else who has ever played. You are talking about a record that was said to never get broken, and he still has a legitimate chance to do so. Ovechkin is ten times the player and goal scorer Gartner was, so they don’t really have anything in common. This would make him more of a legend in the best sense of the word. Yes, there is more to scoring goals, but the point of hockey is to score goals, and breaking one of the most prestigious all time Gretzky Records would add a ton to his already cemented legacy. But both players aren’t top 5 regardless, while I’d put both in the top 10.

also, Sid’s “devastation” over Ovechkin when it matters?....
Ovechkin: 26-15-18-33
Crosby: 25-13-17-30

I don’t see anything “devastating” about that. Maybe do your research before making such claims?

Luckily your opinion means little to the hockey community :laugh: no actual hockey fan would say that the guy with 700+ goals, 3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 8 Rockets, an Art Ross “isn’t quite good.”

And Ovechkin redefined goal scoring, and did things that those guys never did. All in a lower scoring era.

Sid will always be remembered as the better player, but if Ovechkin breaks the record, I believe it will impact his legacy greater.

That has been my preface. Ovie outproducing Wayne or winning another cup changes the narrative.
 

Gurglesons

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You are really going to compare Canada to Russia and still try to make Crosby the headliner for that? Ok bud....

I mean are you going to remember the scoring titles Crosby won or the fact that the greatest player of our generation and of all time lost scoring titles to Jamie Benn, Henrik Sedin, MSL, and Patrick Kane?......

Kind of like how the greatest goal scorer of our generation lost to Daniel Sedin, Corey Perry and Steven Stamkos?
 

GreatGonzo

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That has been my preface. Ovie outproducing Wayne or winning another cup changes the narrative.
Why does he need to win another cup? There isn’t some set standard to follow or criteria to abide by. Breaking almost 900 goals alone is legendary. He doesn’t need another cup to follow that.
 

GreatGonzo

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Kind of like how the greatest goal scorer of our generation lost to Daniel Sedin, Corey Perry and Steven Stamkos?
And yet still has more Rockets than anyone in history? And yet still out produced those guys and went on to be a better player? Notice how your attempt to switch it up only proves my point?

If you are going to focus on the years he didn’t win the Rocket, at least to be deliberately obtuse to what he accomplished in between those years.
 

GreatGonzo

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Because legacy is defined by championships in every sports league which I said.
Not every sport follows that mindset. If that was the case, then guys like Perry and Williams would have bigger legacies than Ovechkin, but they never will. That’s why Maurice Richard doesn’t have a bigger legacy than Orr or Lemieux.

Championships build legends for sure, but they don’t define it like other sports to, like Basketball and football. Ovechkin has a cup and a good amount of international success regardless. The cup is probably the hardest trophy to win in all of sports, Everything Ovechkin has accomplished doesn’t get to take a back seat to the idea that he needs MORE team awards, especially since he already has them.
 

HTFN

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Ah. So the narrative will be when Crosby made goal scoring his thing he outscored the greatest goal scorer of all time twice, while running through his team which was the on paper favorite in every one of those series and beating him in all three international series as well?
I guess for you, sure.

He just flipped the switch and proved anyone can do what Ovechkin does and walked off into the sunset knowing he could also be the greatest goal scorer ever if he wanted to, sure. He didn’t luck into some wins in Ovechkin’s very noticeable down years. There’s no reason to investigate those clear aberrations, and even though they never even had a significant head to head Rocket race we should just assume Crosby outclassed him at his best. It doesn’t make sense, it falls down as soon as you look into it, but sure. Ovechkin lost those awards to himself, his coach, and injury, but those years were more like vacating to an open field, not losing to Crosby’s direct challenge.

and now the Capitals were clear paper favorites in all of their meetings? f*** me. It wasn’t that way then, and especially not to media folks, but suddenly it is now. If it is Crosby, it has to be the best with no exception, and if it’s just surrounding Crosby it can’t have any merit of its own, and you want to get after me about “the narrative”.

is there anything you won’t spin to be as sensationally Hollywood as possible?
 

GreatGonzo

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I guess for you, sure.

He just flipped the switch and proved anyone can do what Ovechkin does and walked off into the sunset knowing he could also be the greatest goal scorer ever if he wanted to, sure. He didn’t luck into some wins in Ovechkin’s very noticeable down years. There’s no reason to investigate those clear aberrations, and even though they never even had a significant head to head Rocket race we should just assume Crosby outclassed him at his best. It doesn’t make sense, it falls down as soon as you look into it, but sure. Ovechkin lost those awards to himself, his coach, and injury, but those years were more like vacating to an open field, not losing to Crosby’s direct challenge.

and now the Capitals were clear paper favorites in all of their meetings? f*** me. It wasn’t that way then, and especially not to media folks, but suddenly it is now. If it is Crosby, it has to be the best with no exception, and if it’s just surrounding Crosby it can’t have any merit of its own, and you want to get after me about “the narrative”.

is there anything you won’t spin to be as sensationally Hollywood as possible?
Crosby having two Rockets doesn’t mean that he could have been the best goal scorer, and it certainly doesn’t mean that he just decided to score goals because he felt like it. He tied Stamkos with 51 and then had 44 goals after that. Being the best is about consistency and being near or at the top. Crosby isn’t a goal scorer my nature, although he’s a great goal scorer, to suggest that he could have matched Ovechkin is belittling to Ovechkin. I mean, if Ovechkin decided to focus on playmaking, could he have beat Crosby in assists totals? I doubt it, but that’s the logic that is following.
 

Gurglesons

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And yet still has more Rockets than anyone in history? And yet still out produced those guys and went on to be a better player? Notice how your attempt to switch it up only proves my point?

If you are going to focus on the years he didn’t win the Rocket, at least to be deliberately obtuse to what he accomplished in between those years.

Hull and Esposito had that record before hand and Hull actually has an argument for tying Ovie too. Doesn’t change his picture in terms of the all time best.
 

max21

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I outlined why I felt he is being a little overrated right now. Some people are trying to put him in the same category as Gretzky because he’s chasing his goal scoring record.

It’s an outlandish proposition to even consider.
Did I once say I’m putting him in the same category as Gretzky? I am criticizing you on calling the potentially greatest goal scorer of all time overrated. Which is ridiculous and 9/10 hockey fans would never think of saying. I don’t agree with you, that is all
 

Gurglesons

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I guess for you, sure.

He just flipped the switch and proved anyone can do what Ovechkin does and walked off into the sunset knowing he could also be the greatest goal scorer ever if he wanted to, sure. He didn’t luck into some wins in Ovechkin’s very noticeable down years. There’s no reason to investigate those clear aberrations, and even though they never even had a significant head to head Rocket race we should just assume Crosby outclassed him at his best. It doesn’t make sense, it falls down as soon as you look into it, but sure. Ovechkin lost those awards to himself, his coach, and injury, but those years were more like vacating to an open field, not losing to Crosby’s direct challenge.

and now the Capitals were clear paper favorites in all of their meetings? f*** me. It wasn’t that way then, and especially not to media folks, but suddenly it is now. If it is Crosby, it has to be the best with no exception, and if it’s just surrounding Crosby it can’t have any merit of its own, and you want to get after me about “the narrative”.

is there anything you won’t spin to be as sensationally Hollywood as possible?

2009 was a crapshoot but Washington was 100% the favored team in 15-16 and 16-17?
 

Northern Avs Fan

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Did I once say I’m putting him in the same category as Gretzky? I am criticizing you on calling the potentially greatest goal scorer of all time overrated. Which is ridiculous and 9/10 hockey fans would never think of saying. I don’t agree with you, that is all

All good brother. That’s what I’ve heard from others, not you specifically, and is why I said he’s a little overrated. I outlined why I believe that at great length in previous posts.
 
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LT

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The 1K posts per thread rule is back in effect for now. Please make a new thread.

Closed.
 
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