Who will leave the bigger legacy: Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin?

[wetcoast]

He had two other seasons that were arguably superior to OV's best.

Sure in 46-47 one can make the case but there was still a hangover affect form WWII that year so it's debatable.

Not really sure as to the other year you are referring to here though.

 

[GreatGonzo]

He had two other seasons that were arguably superior to OV's best.

What two other seasons? The one where he won a Hart during war time and the talent pool was drained? Which is the other?.......

You aren't usually one to throw out raw numbers/trophies with no context. Richard lost two titles to a peak Howe as would OV.

So seven titles to nine, a higher peak season (s), a mammoth lead in goals for his era (same as OV), the highest point total of his era (same as OV), and the 2nd highest PPG of his era (superior to OV), make their regular seasons resumes very close.

What isn't close is the difference in their playoff PPGs and legacy. Richard is the runaway leader in goals and points, with an even higher GPG in the playoffs. OV's playoff resume is OK relative to his regular season one, Richard is defined by his.

OV's lack of longevity as an offensive force ultimately keeps him out of the Top Ten.

He’s been putting up 50 goals nearly every year and yet can’t be considered an offensive force? The main objective is to score goals, he’s been the best at it. He also has great longevity as a player and goal scorer. Just because he wasn’t in the scoring title race every year doesn’t take away that he still led the league in goals. Last time I checked, goals are a majors offensive contribution...


Try again Daver and this time don’t let your bias get in the way of facts.

 

[daver]

You are right equating the WWII years when a significant amount of NHL stars were outside of the NHL to post lockout NHL is subjective but it has a strong foundation of credibility to build upon the difference of the 2 eras.

There is a reason that Richard scored 50 in 50 in 44-45 and then never scored higher than 45 goals against despite an increase in the number of games in the schedule.

I don't question Richard's domination that year regardless of his goal totals. Want to say that likely a player or two who was missing gets closer to him in 44/45 than 32 goals, yep, that's reasonable. That he had two other dominant seasons puts any thought that his 44/45 was an anomaly to bed IMO.

His 50/51 season was arguably more dominant than OV's best season, and his playoff goalscoring into his '30s also puts any idea that he wasn't as great as his 44/45 season to bed too.

 

[daver]

Sure in 46-47 one can make the case but there was still a hangover affect form WWII that year so it's debatable.

Not really sure as to the other year you are referring to here though.

50/51.

 

[Varan]

If you appreciate objective analysis and assessment, i.e. free of the bias you accuse me of having (how original by the way, "I AM RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE BIASED!"), then you would appreciate the time and effort that went into that project.

Tell the difference between a ranking from a poll on the main boards and this project? If the rankings from the HOH project put OV higher than Crosby, I bet all the money in the world you wouldn’t bring it up, rather a poll that had Crosby higher.

It literally doesn’t mean anything.

 

[Varan]

That same project rejects your idea that Crosby has an argument for #5 though, he isn’t even in their top 10.

LITERALLY!!! If the rankings were not in favour of Sid there would be no point to bring it up.

There’s no difference between a regular poll and a project, because the same people who made the project can easily vote on the regular poll, and for some off reason, the project holds more weight LMAO

 

[alphabetical]

Try again Daver and this time don’t let your bias get in the way of facts.

Come now, we all know that's not possible.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Delete

 

[GreatGonzo]

50/51.

His 1951 season isn’t better than any of Ovechkins best. Stopped pushing such an agenda.

LITERALLY!!! If the rankings were not in favour of Sid there would be no point to bring it up.

There’s no difference between a regular poll and a project, because the same people who made the project can easily vote on the regular poll, and for some off reason, the project holds more weight LMAO

I mean he’s using the same Project that contradicts his own views on Crosby, but he won’t admit that....just Continue showing where they feel Ovechkin places. He’s #5 all time with a peak that was “on par” with Howe.

He probably thinks he’s the greatest Pen of all time too.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I don't question Richard's domination that year regardless of his goal totals. Want to say that likely a player or two who was missing gets closer to him in 44/45 than 32 goals, yep, that's reasonable. That he had two other dominant seasons puts any thought that his 44/45 was an anomaly to bed IMO.

His 50/51 season was arguably more dominant than OV's best season, and his playoff goalscoring into his '30s also puts any idea that he wasn't as great as his 44/45 season to bed too.

What argument? Based on what exactly? You talk a lot and make a lot of claims for someone with little to back it....

 

[Varan]

delete any of my repeated posts idk what's going on with HF

 

[Varan]

His 1951 season isn’t better than any of Ovechkins best. Stopped pushing such an agenda.

I mean he’s using the same Project that contradicts his own views on Crosby, but he won’t admit that....just Continue showing where they feel Ovechkin places. He’s #5 all time with a peak that was “on par” with Howe.

He probably thinks he’s the greatest Pen of all time too.

That's what I don't understand either. It doesn't even have him in the top-10 let alone 5 haha, yet "the consensus is #5"

my biggest issue with this poll is that why should it hold more weight than a regular poll? because research was put into it? if the same people who made this project simply made a regular poll on the top ___ players OAT, but changed their rankings to some degree (ranked OV over Sid), what is the difference here? does the poll become invalid?

nothing

 

[Varan]

Yes, it does. Ovi would give up his Cup for a Golden goal.

really? he told you?

 

[Varan]

I’d agree if that happens. Really doubt it does as that Capitals team is not set up for long term success with the contracts they have moving forward.

pretty sure we're moving on from Holtby (supposed to be after this season) but who knows when now

 

[Varan]

If you appreciate objective analysis and assessment, i.e. free of the bias you accuse me of having (how original by the way, "I AM RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE BIASED!"), then you would appreciate the time and effort that went into that project.

objective? if they ranked OV over Crosby by 10 spots would you still call it objective?

if after their careers were over and another project was made ranking OV #5 and Crosby below him, would you still appreciate the work and objective assessment? would you even acknowledge their work?

yup, we got him folks

 

[wetcoast]

50/51.

Don't really see how you are coming to this conclusion, care to elaborate?

 

[nowhereman]

If Ovi passes Gretzky's goal scoring totals i think he'll have the bigger legacy despite being the inferior player

Pretty much the way I see. Crosby is/was the better overall player but being the most prolific goalscorer of all time is a pretty damn good feather in one's cap. That said, it won't been an easy task.

 

[alphabetical]

Double post

 

[TheAngryHank]

Apparently this thread will still be going in 30 years so I'll read and find out then.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

the hockey guy on yt had a great side by side comparison of the 2.

 

[daver]

Don't really see how you are coming to this conclusion, care to elaborate?

Richard's GPG - 0.65
Howe's GPG - 0.61

Next best GPG among Top Ten goalscorers - 0.44


Very similar dominance to 47/47:

Richard's GPG - 0.75

Next best GPG among Top Ten goalscorers - 0.52

 

[daver]

objective? if they ranked OV over Crosby by 10 spots would you still call it objective?

if after their careers were over and another project was made ranking OV #5 and Crosby below him, would you still appreciate the work and objective assessment? would you even acknowledge their work?

yup, we got him folks

If by "we" you mean nobody besides yourself, and by "nobody" I mean "nobody in their right mind is going to give you an ounce of credit for getting me by creating a fake scenario and expecting me to comment on it."

But here is a comment:

You don't want to acknowledge the project's findings because they don't fit your narrative yet would be happy to acknowledge them if they did fit your narrative.

I am sure you feel the same way about Hart and Conn Smythe voting too.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Yes, it does. Ovi would give up his Cup for a Golden goal.

Laughable assertion and considering he is the first Russian Captain in the history of the NHL to win the Cup, you're completely incorrect.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

He had two other seasons that were arguably superior to OV's best.

I mean you could argue it but you'd be laughed out of the room you made it in.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Sub ppg winger vs consistent top 5 scorer