OT: Who was the better player Fedorov or Datsyuk?

[Johnz96*]

All I see are fans that probably were fans after 2000, who never really got to see the dominance that Fedorov was. If tomorrow I could take either one at 18 to build a team around it would be Feds 11 times out of 10, that's what you have to ask yourself, if you had to pick one player at 18 to build a team around, who would it be?

Any player that has won a Selke and been a top 20 scorer is dominant player. Fedorov was a top 20 scorer 3 times Pavel has been a top 20 scorer 4 times. Fedorov wan the Selke twice, Datsyuk 3 times. Fedorov had the benefit of playing before the cap on a stocked team, Datsyuk hasn't. Fedorov has often been criticized for his effort, no one would ever criticize Datsyuk for that.
Datsyuk is a classy quiet leader who leads by example.
I have been a Wings' fan since 77 and it's a no-brainer for me. Datsyuk.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Any player that has won a Selke and been a top 20 scorer is dominant player. Fedorov was a top 20 scorer 3 times Pavel has been a top 20 scorer 4 times. Fedorov wan the Selke twice, Datsyuk 3 times. Fedorov had the benefit of playing before the cap on a stocked team, Datsyuk hasn't. Fedorov has often been criticized for his effort, no one would ever criticize Datsyuk for that.
Datsyuk is a classy quiet leader who leads by example.
I have been a Wings' fan since 77 and it's a no-brainer for me. Datsyuk.

Guess you're going to completely ignore the post-season and the fact he was the best player on those stacked cap teams.

Fedorov had 163 points in 162 games in the playoffs games with the Wings
Datsyuk has 103 points in 140 games in the playoffs all with the Wings

That is a huge difference. I don't think he has been better than Fedorov in the regular season anyway at least it is closer, but Fedorov hammers him in terms of how the players played in the post-season.

 

[Point Shot]

It's closer than you think. Nostalgia always adds shine to the guy who's no longer here.

Still, I'd give it to Fedorov. He could literally do anything. You could put him on defense and he'd be an elite defenseman, for God's sake. Datsyuk is more fun to watch and in a lot of ways they're both in that elite level and closely matched, but Fedorov still gets a very slight edge.

 

[Nordic*]

People let nostalgia cloud their judgements to a ridiculous level.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Pav is my favorite Wing of all-time, but Sergei was just absolutely dominant when he was in his prime.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

And what if he simply wasn't? If his peak play was his norm he'd be a top 10 player of all time.

I don't see anyone questioning Zetterberg's play because he cranks it up a notch when the team needs it. Yet that's exactly what Feds did.

What's frustrating about it? Didn't pad his stats enough? Fedorov is a winner.

Who said Fedorov wasn't a winner? Being a winner doesn't mean you couldn't have been better.

When people talk about Fedorov the first thing that'll get talked about was his natural ability and gifts. Just read this thread. And rightfully so. The man was blessed with one of the greatest skill sets the game has seen. He was one of the greatest skaters the NHL has ever seen, had a 100+ mph shot, great hockey IQ and vision, and was a shutdown defensive forward. Wanting more isn't out of the question and isn't a rare belief from Fedorov. Whether you like it or not his legacy will be that of a ridiculously talented winner, but one who many think could have been better. Like I've said, Datsyuk already has a better regular season resume in terms of top 10 point finishes.

And regarding Zetterberg, look no further than the Swedish Chris Drury thread. Why don't you hear about that right now? Because Z is playing at a high level. If you don't think people haven't been a little down on Z at times in past seasons you haven't been paying attention. But the difference between Fedorov and Z is once again that Fedorov possessed physical tools that Z could only dream of.

 

[guinness]

My gut said Fedorov.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Who said Fedorov wasn't a winner? Being a winner doesn't mean you couldn't have been better.

When people talk about Fedorov the first thing that'll get talked about was his natural ability and gifts. Just read this thread. And rightfully so. The man was blessed with one of the greatest skill sets the game has seen. He was one of the greatest skaters the NHL has ever seen, had a 100+ mph shot, great hockey IQ and vision, and was a shutdown defensive forward. Wanting more isn't out of the question and isn't a rare belief from Fedorov. Whether you like it or not his legacy will be that of a ridiculously talented winner, but one who many think could have been better. Like I've said, Datsyuk already has a better regular season resume in terms of top 10 point finishes.

And regarding Zetterberg, look no further than the Swedish Chris Drury thread. Why don't you hear about that right now? Because Z is playing at a high level. If you don't think people haven't been a little down on Z at times in past seasons you haven't been paying attention. But the difference between Fedorov and Z is once again that Fedorov possessed physical tools that Z could only dream of.

I am curious when is it okay to start asking for more out of Datsyuk come post-season time? We would have crucified Fedorov if he disappeared like Pavel did in the Chicago series, heck we got after him when he was productive in a lot of post-seasons.

 

[InjuredChoker]

datsyuk was getting a lot of flack for his playoff performance earlier in his career.

i wasn't around back then but many of my wings fan friends wanted to ship him out. i assume it was pretty much the same around here.

 

[PelagicJoe]

This is so close, it's not even funny. I'll go with Feds since he put up better numbers offensively.

 

[Frk It]

Can we start drafting Russian forwards again? Seriously.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Can we start drafting Russian forwards again? Seriously.

i'm still mad about kuznetsov.

 

[norrisnick]

Guess you're going to completely ignore the post-season and the fact he was the best player on those stacked cap teams.

Fedorov had 163 points in 162 games in the playoffs games with the Wings
Datsyuk has 103 points in 140 games in the playoffs all with the Wings

That is a huge difference. I don't think he has been better than Fedorov in the regular season anyway at least it is closer, but Fedorov hammers him in terms of how the players played in the post-season.

No kidding.

Fedorov played through 13 playoffs with the Wings. He had the most points 8 times and finished with the 2nd most 4 more times. Only once finishing out of the top 2. Pavel has led once and finished 2nd 3 times out of 11 playoffs. Sure getting to the playoffs is important, but what you do once you get there is even more important...

 

[Johnz96*]

i'm still mad about kuznetsov.

Yea Maxim didn't really pan out but not all first rounders do. At least he helped the Wings get Stuart.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I am curious when is it okay to start asking for more out of Datsyuk come post-season time? We would have crucified Fedorov if he disappeared like Pavel did in the Chicago series, heck we got after him when he was productive in a lot of post-seasons.

Selective memory on two accounts:

1) Datsyuk does receive a fair share of criticism for some of his playoff struggles. You can't possibly ignore or deny that.

and

2) Fedorov wasn't always the playoff monster we recall. Most people probably don't remember his 1997 first round against St. Louis where he had 2 assists and was a -2 despite Detroit winning in 6 games. What if Fedorov is playing on a team like the 2010-2013 Red Wings. Do they win a round if Fedorov plays like that? Is it safe to say that Fedorov typically played on a better squad (both teammates and coach)?

Another example: 1998 WCF vs Dallas. Fedorov 2 points, -3 in 6 games. Who remembers that though since Detroit went on to win that series and the Cup.

Different circumstances. Datsyuk really can't afford to have a poor statistical series or Detroit likely doesn't win unless it's the 2009 squad.

Lastly, Fedorov and Datsyuk are completely different in their physical talent and development. From day 1 in the NHL Fedorov had elite talent. His skating allowed him to translate to the NA game smoothly and he was already defensively responsible. Datsyuk had elite skill, but he wasn't nearly filled out enough to be the impact player that he would later develop into. There was a much bigger gap in 2001 Datsyuk to 2007 Datsyuk than there was in 1990 Fedorov to 94-96 Fedorov. So looking at Datsyuk's pre lockout postseasons are obviously looking at a different player than the player who put on a bunch of muscle and weight.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yea Maxim didn't really pan out but not all first rounders do. At least he helped the Wings get Stuart.

was talking about different kuznetsov .

evgeni. mad that wings took sheahan over him.

and do you mean schneider?

 

[Frk It]

was talking about different kuznetsov .

evgeni. mad that wings took sheahan over him.

and do you mean schneider?

Still a lot of doubt if Kuznetsov will even come over. And if he does, if he'll stay, or go back home early.

Wouldn't be too mad about it.

Kucherov is a guy I would be mad about not taking. Kid is legit.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Still a lot of doubt if Kuznetsov will even come over. And if he does, if he'll stay, or go back home early.

Wouldn't be too mad about it.

Kucherov is a guy I would be mad about not taking. Kid is legit.

even if there was only like 10% chance of him coming over, i'd take him over sheahan. he has elite potential.

and yeah kucherov is legit. but i'm pretty happy with wings 11 draft as of now.

both were in russia at the time they were drafted. no way anyone could tell back then at time when they drafted if they come over or not.

 

[Johnz96*]

was talking about different kuznetsov .

evgeni. mad that wings took sheahan over him.

and do you mean schneider?

Oh yeah that's right it was Schneider.

 

[Brick Top]

Lastly, Fedorov and Datsyuk are completely different in their physical talent and development. From day 1 in the NHL Fedorov had elite talent. His skating allowed him to translate to the NA game smoothly and he was already defensively responsible. Datsyuk had elite skill, but he wasn't nearly filled out enough to be the impact player that he would later develop into. There was a much bigger gap in 2001 Datsyuk to 2007 Datsyuk than there was in 1990 Fedorov to 94-96 Fedorov. So looking at Datsyuk's pre lockout postseasons are obviously looking at a different player than the player who put on a bunch of muscle and weight.

Full credit to Pavel for adjusting to the NA game and putting on some weight and working on his skating in his first few years w/ Detroit. But I don't see how it can be a negative for Feds to be able to hit the ground running much faster than Datsyuk in the NHL game. He came to NA as a better, more physically mature player and that's completely to Sergei's credit. It gave him a headstart vs Pavel's start to his career, and IMO Fedorov maintained the gap as the better player as each guy hit their prime.

Pavel is the flashier player who probably makes more jaw-dropping plays with the puck, but Sergei was the smoother, more efficient player who often made the game look easy. Feds was the best player on those Wings Cup teams in the '90's and add in that he was the better overall playoff performer- sticking w/ Sergei here.

 

[Johnz96*]

Full credit to Pavel for adjusting to the NA game and putting on some weight and working on his skating in his first few years w/ Detroit. But I don't see how it can be a negative for Feds to be able to hit the ground running much faster than Datsyuk in the NHL game. He came to NA as a better, more physically mature player and that's completely to Sergei's credit. It gave him a headstart vs Pavel's start to his career, and IMO Fedorov maintained the gap as the better player as each guy hit their prime.

Pavel is the flashier player who probably makes more jaw-dropping plays with the puck, but Sergei was the smoother, more efficient player who often made the game look easy. Feds was the best player on those Wings Cup teams in the '90's and add in that he was the better overall playoff performer- sticking w/ Sergei here.

No Conn Smythes.
Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Vernon/Osgood/Hasek, and other HoFers were all just as important and impressive in their playoff runs and contributed to Feds impressive stats as did the greatest coach in hockey history, the fact that there was more net to shoot at with smaller goalie equipment for the first half dozen years of Fedorov's career.
Average goals per game in the NHL by year
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...=9dIZuzkmyLfuDSIdqWcIFQ&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cGU

 

[icKx]

Can we start drafting Russian forwards again? Seriously.

Grigorenko would only be 30 this season

 

[Retire91]

Fedorov for me, and that is not taking anything away from Daytsuk. Both elite players Fedorov was just more elite.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

My heart says Datsyuk. My brain says Fedorov.

I would love to see a Prime Fedorov on a line with Datsyuk.

 

[Brick Top]

No Conn Smythes.
Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Vernon/Osgood/Hasek, and other HoFers were all just as important and impressive in their playoff runs and contributed to Feds impressive stats as did the greatest coach in hockey history, the fact that there was more net to shoot at with smaller goalie equipment for the first half dozen years of Fedorov's career.
Average goals per game in the NHL by year
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...=9dIZuzkmyLfuDSIdqWcIFQ&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cGU

No Conn Smythes for Datsyuk either. Feds was the best and most versatile player on those Cup teams- he did play with world class players, but so has Datsyuk. Sergei was the better playoff performer and I don't think that's debatable. Not saying that Datsyuk has been a no-show in the playoffs by any stretch, just not as good as Fedorov.