It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there are way fewer goals scored now than for most of Fedorov's career, take a look at scoring leaders or goalie leaders
In 92-93 Fedorov's most productive season 7311 goals were scored over 1008 games an average of 7.25 goals per game
In 08-09 Datsyuk's most productive season 7010 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.7 goals per game
In 11-12 6543 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.32 goals per game
Bettman allowed the goalie equipment to get bigger and bigger to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity so weaker teams have a better chance of winning.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...vGd9NmSfnPlZOkA&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cWc&cad=rja
So many grass is greener on the other side people here. if Datsyuk played then and fedorov now most of you who say Fedorov would say Datsyuk.
There is more of a talent pool to choose from now and with the progress of the science of training and nutrition players are bigger, faster, stronger and better than they were even 10 years ago.
Datsyuk is arguably the best there is now and therefore possibly the best to ever lace up a pair of skates.
I think a lot of Wings' fans are taking it for granted that we may be watching the best that ever lived and Bettman is taking away one of his last years from us and he already took another.
From 90-96 goal scoring was at or over 6 goals a game since then it's always been well under so Fedorov had 6 years with a lot more net to shoot at than Datsyuk has had. Best way to compare their stats would be how many times they were in the top 3, top 5, top 10 and top 20 in scoring. Because they're both great defensively (Pavel's got more Selkes) this could be a fair comparison. Fedorov also had the advantage of playing for the Wings before the salary cap.
I guess there is no way to prove if a player from one era is better than one from another (there's no way to prove it about players playing in the same era, I am sure most Penguins fans would disagree that Datsyuk is the best) but it certainly was a lot easier to score for at least 6 of Fedorov's season than it is now because they had a lot more net to shoot at. That's obvious, I thought everyone who is old enough knew that, even if you aren't old enough to have watched hockey before Bettman it is obvious by the stats
By the a goal a game difference is a total of 1260 goals divided by 30 teams is 42 goal. Since Detroit has most often been a top 5 goal scoring team in most of the years that Fedorov or Datsyuk have played you can easily bump that up to 50. Fedorov and Datsyuk are in on more than a third of the Wings' goals so a goal a game difference in league scoring adds to about a 17 point difference for Fedorov or Datsyuk.
Another way to compare their stats and factor in the larger goalie equipment now is how many times were they top3, top5, top 10, and top 20. I think statistically considering the goalie equipment Datsyuk will have a slight advantage even though Fedorov had better teammates in the pre cap days
But I think the biggest advantage Datsyuk has is as a leader. I know he is a quiet but he sets an example of how to conduct oneself with class on and off the ice and he works hard to be the best he can be, one of the best conditioned athletes in the league he has made his deficiencies his strengths. His first year in the NHl he was weak and skinny and easily knocked off the puck (I loved watching him make plays as he was falling or sprawled out on the ice) terrible on face-offs (he won less than 40% of his face-offs his rookie year). He is the shiftiest most fun to watch hockey player I have ever seen
I am very surprised by the poll results, I thought he would walk away with it
I did the math in the 13 yrs that Fedorov played for the Wings the NHL averaged 6.094 goals a game in the 10 that Datsyuk has played so far the NHL averaged 5.494 goals per game a 0.6 difference or 738 goals per year divided by 30 teams =24.6 pump iy up to 30 because Detroit scores a lot more than the average team and because Datsyuk and Fedorov factor in in about 1/3 of the Wings goals, Fedorov should average 10 points more per season than Datsyuk to be equal factoring in the difference made by the goalie equipment. I will figure those averages shortly
In 13 seasons with the Wings, Fedorov was in the top 20 scorers 3x ( 93-94 he was 2nd, 95-96 he was 9th, and 02-03 he was 12th)
In 10 seasons with the Wings, Datsyuk was in the top 20 scorers 4x (05-06 he was 17th, 06-07, he was 15th 07-08 he was 4th and 08-09 he was 4th)
Slight edge Datsyuk statistically. But when you factor in better teammates for Fedorov in the cap free days and the fact that Datsyuk has won 3 Selkes to 2 for Fedorov and Datsyuk's class, quiet leadership, i really can't believe that there is any question
Fedorov scored 954 points in 908 games with the Wings averaging 1.05 points per game or 86.1 points over 82 gmes
Datsyuk has scored 718 points in 732 games averaging 0.98 points per game or 80.43 over 82 games. Add 10 points per season to Datsyuk for the bigger goalie equipment difference and he is slightly ahead of Fedorov and you don't even need to factor any difference for goaltending equipment if you include Fed with other teams Datsyuk has a higher career NHL PPG than Fedorov
in his first 6 years when the NHL allowed 6.69 goals a game Fedorov scored 529 points in 432 games, a 1.22 PPG (100.4 pace over 82 games) but when the goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's production plummeted. In his next 7 years when the NHL allowed 5.57 goals a game (much closer to the 5.494 allowed during Datsyuk's career), Fedorov scored 425 points in 477 games a 0.89 PPG (72.98 pace over 82 games which is significantly lower than Datsyuk's 0.98 PPG or 80.43 pace over 82 games )
it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.
I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)
Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his.
In 92-93 Fedorov's most productive season 7311 goals were scored over 1008 games an average of 7.25 goals per game
In 08-09 Datsyuk's most productive season 7010 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.7 goals per game
In 11-12 6543 goals were scored over 1230 games an average of 5.32 goals per game
Bettman allowed the goalie equipment to get bigger and bigger to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity so weaker teams have a better chance of winning.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...vGd9NmSfnPlZOkA&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cWc&cad=rja
So many grass is greener on the other side people here. if Datsyuk played then and fedorov now most of you who say Fedorov would say Datsyuk.
There is more of a talent pool to choose from now and with the progress of the science of training and nutrition players are bigger, faster, stronger and better than they were even 10 years ago.
Datsyuk is arguably the best there is now and therefore possibly the best to ever lace up a pair of skates.
I think a lot of Wings' fans are taking it for granted that we may be watching the best that ever lived and Bettman is taking away one of his last years from us and he already took another.
From 90-96 goal scoring was at or over 6 goals a game since then it's always been well under so Fedorov had 6 years with a lot more net to shoot at than Datsyuk has had. Best way to compare their stats would be how many times they were in the top 3, top 5, top 10 and top 20 in scoring. Because they're both great defensively (Pavel's got more Selkes) this could be a fair comparison. Fedorov also had the advantage of playing for the Wings before the salary cap.
I guess there is no way to prove if a player from one era is better than one from another (there's no way to prove it about players playing in the same era, I am sure most Penguins fans would disagree that Datsyuk is the best) but it certainly was a lot easier to score for at least 6 of Fedorov's season than it is now because they had a lot more net to shoot at. That's obvious, I thought everyone who is old enough knew that, even if you aren't old enough to have watched hockey before Bettman it is obvious by the stats
By the a goal a game difference is a total of 1260 goals divided by 30 teams is 42 goal. Since Detroit has most often been a top 5 goal scoring team in most of the years that Fedorov or Datsyuk have played you can easily bump that up to 50. Fedorov and Datsyuk are in on more than a third of the Wings' goals so a goal a game difference in league scoring adds to about a 17 point difference for Fedorov or Datsyuk.
Another way to compare their stats and factor in the larger goalie equipment now is how many times were they top3, top5, top 10, and top 20. I think statistically considering the goalie equipment Datsyuk will have a slight advantage even though Fedorov had better teammates in the pre cap days
But I think the biggest advantage Datsyuk has is as a leader. I know he is a quiet but he sets an example of how to conduct oneself with class on and off the ice and he works hard to be the best he can be, one of the best conditioned athletes in the league he has made his deficiencies his strengths. His first year in the NHl he was weak and skinny and easily knocked off the puck (I loved watching him make plays as he was falling or sprawled out on the ice) terrible on face-offs (he won less than 40% of his face-offs his rookie year). He is the shiftiest most fun to watch hockey player I have ever seen
I am very surprised by the poll results, I thought he would walk away with it
I did the math in the 13 yrs that Fedorov played for the Wings the NHL averaged 6.094 goals a game in the 10 that Datsyuk has played so far the NHL averaged 5.494 goals per game a 0.6 difference or 738 goals per year divided by 30 teams =24.6 pump iy up to 30 because Detroit scores a lot more than the average team and because Datsyuk and Fedorov factor in in about 1/3 of the Wings goals, Fedorov should average 10 points more per season than Datsyuk to be equal factoring in the difference made by the goalie equipment. I will figure those averages shortly
In 13 seasons with the Wings, Fedorov was in the top 20 scorers 3x ( 93-94 he was 2nd, 95-96 he was 9th, and 02-03 he was 12th)
In 10 seasons with the Wings, Datsyuk was in the top 20 scorers 4x (05-06 he was 17th, 06-07, he was 15th 07-08 he was 4th and 08-09 he was 4th)
Slight edge Datsyuk statistically. But when you factor in better teammates for Fedorov in the cap free days and the fact that Datsyuk has won 3 Selkes to 2 for Fedorov and Datsyuk's class, quiet leadership, i really can't believe that there is any question
Fedorov scored 954 points in 908 games with the Wings averaging 1.05 points per game or 86.1 points over 82 gmes
Datsyuk has scored 718 points in 732 games averaging 0.98 points per game or 80.43 over 82 games. Add 10 points per season to Datsyuk for the bigger goalie equipment difference and he is slightly ahead of Fedorov and you don't even need to factor any difference for goaltending equipment if you include Fed with other teams Datsyuk has a higher career NHL PPG than Fedorov
in his first 6 years when the NHL allowed 6.69 goals a game Fedorov scored 529 points in 432 games, a 1.22 PPG (100.4 pace over 82 games) but when the goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's production plummeted. In his next 7 years when the NHL allowed 5.57 goals a game (much closer to the 5.494 allowed during Datsyuk's career), Fedorov scored 425 points in 477 games a 0.89 PPG (72.98 pace over 82 games which is significantly lower than Datsyuk's 0.98 PPG or 80.43 pace over 82 games )
it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.
I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)
Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his.
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I would be very interested in how he would compare to a prime Larinov (probably mispelled sorry folks) very much so. Thats the player I have seen in interviews whose game pavel modeled after. Unfortunately Most of Lari's prime was solely in russia so their isn't much to go on unless you can find footage of him from those days.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
you just made fetisov, kharlamov, tretiak and makarov mad.
Yes, I should have qualified Russian in the NHL. I don't have any input, outside of reading 2nd or 3rd hand reports, on players that didn't play their careers in North America.
It's quite possible one of those old school Russians would have ripped it up even more than Feds or Dats in the NHL.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Fedorov had insane amounts of talent, so he could be a frustrating player. He did win an MVP award so it's defensible to select him over Datsyuk. I just have great appreciation for a guy who has worked his butt off to become one of the best guys in the league.
Feds also played with some insanely talented guys while Pavs has often been paired with dreck like Dan Cleary and Justin Abdelkader.
I just love watching #13 play while I could either love or loathe watching #91 play. So for me it really just comes down to that distinction.
Feds also played with some insanely talented guys while Pavs has often been paired with dreck like Dan Cleary and Justin Abdelkader.
I just love watching #13 play while I could either love or loathe watching #91 play. So for me it really just comes down to that distinction.
Shoalzie
Trust me!
Fedorov was/is the most physically gifted player ever to wear this uniform but if he had Pavel's creativity and work ethic, he would've been unstoppable. Fedorov could do it all...when he wanted to.
Agreed.
Fedorov's "A" game was better than Datsyuk's, as Fedorov was blessed with physical tools (skating, size, and stamina) that Datsyuk could only dream of. But you know what you're getting more often from Datsyuk.
For as gifted as Fedorov was, you just knew that he was capable of so much more. And as a fan of him that's frustrating. Because he had the ability to dominate every single night. And he didn't.
Two top 10 point finishes for Fedorov is disappointing to me. Datsyuk has more than him and probably would have had a couple more if not for significant injuries in 11 and 12.
But Fedorov did obviously step up his game in the playoffs. No one questions that.
Fedorov gets the edge for playoff success, but this is closer than it appears. Fedorov played on better teams and with a better coach.
Shoalzie
Trust me!
Fedorov was an effortless talent...his skating was beautiful...but you can see how hard Pavel works out there. Pavel has gotten everything from his ability and he's remarkably tough for being a smaller player. Fedorov wasn't considered big but he had enough size and he was next to Jagr and Forsberg in this last era as far as being hard on the puck. His breakaway move where he used his knee to shield defenders was brilliant. I was completely in the bag for the guy so that's why is hurt when he left for Anaheim.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Is this asking who had the higher peak or the better career? Feds easily had the highest peak but the latter question is TBD depending how much longer Pavel stays at an elite level. Feds dropped off drastically after he left the Wings and his days as an elite talent were over by the time he reached Datsyuk's current age.
Fedorov was, Datsyuk still is.
No question, Pavel Datsyuk is the better overall player. Sergei Fedorov was great defensively and certainly could fly. However, Datsyk is still playing and, dependent upon his being healthy and playing the next three seasons in full, he'll definitely have over 900 pts. While that is 200 or so points less than Fedorov, taking into account Datsyuk's extra intangibles (hard-hitting, strong center of gravity, puck taker, dangling par excellence, and just plain domination with or without the puck, etc.), I'd rather have Pavel Datsyuk in his primes than Sergei Fedorov. As Babcock once said: "Pavel doesn't have bad games, just bad shifts." (Or something to that equivalent.) The same could not be said for Mr. Fedorov. But there's no reason he shouldn't be in the HOF. If Pavel Bure, a one-dimensional player can make it, Fedorov should be a sure thing.
No question, Pavel Datsyuk is the better overall player. Sergei Fedorov was great defensively and certainly could fly. However, Datsyk is still playing and, dependent upon his being healthy and playing the next three seasons in full, he'll definitely have over 900 pts. While that is 200 or so points less than Fedorov, taking into account Datsyuk's extra intangibles (hard-hitting, strong center of gravity, puck taker, dangling par excellence, and just plain domination with or without the puck, etc.), I'd rather have Pavel Datsyuk in his primes than Sergei Fedorov. As Babcock once said: "Pavel doesn't have bad games, just bad shifts." (Or something to that equivalent.) The same could not be said for Mr. Fedorov. But there's no reason he shouldn't be in the HOF. If Pavel Bure, a one-dimensional player can make it, Fedorov should be a sure thing.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
It's Fedorov; the guy could do everything at an elite level. Most amazing skater I've ever seen. Datsyuk can do it all, but most of it Fedorov can do better, no slight at all on Datsyuk to pick Sergei in this poll; two amazing players, but Sergei Fedorov has the edge.
BinCookin
Registered User
Johnz96 Great statistical Break down in your post.
I think I came to the same conclusion just using the "gut feel" test.
I feel Datsyuk is more Dominant and Federov was in a comparative worth to the team.
Both are great players though. Its a "fun" debate. We are lucky to have them both play for us.
Also I feel like a lot of people here are giving too much weight towards "strong skating", "size"…
Like these are real factors.
I would argue Gretzky at his prime didn't have size, or especially strong skating.
Simply being an athletic marvel does not the best hockey player make!
Datsyuk I think is the best puck handler
Federov is the better shooter.
Datsyuk a better passer.
But still.
Its a nice debate for our fans..
I think I came to the same conclusion just using the "gut feel" test.
I feel Datsyuk is more Dominant and Federov was in a comparative worth to the team.
Both are great players though. Its a "fun" debate. We are lucky to have them both play for us.
Also I feel like a lot of people here are giving too much weight towards "strong skating", "size"…
Like these are real factors.
I would argue Gretzky at his prime didn't have size, or especially strong skating.
Simply being an athletic marvel does not the best hockey player make!
Datsyuk I think is the best puck handler
Federov is the better shooter.
Datsyuk a better passer.
But still.
Its a nice debate for our fans..
FabricDetails
HF still in need of automated text analytics
- Mar 30, 2009
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Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
I thought this was a who is better datsyuk zetterberg and was like what does it matter both are great?
So wasnt going to vote on that.
My favorite all time player is stevie.
Federov was the best player ive ever seen. When he played up to his capabilities. He had three years where he wasnt a forward he was more defense lol. Unreal his skill level and I mean that. So fast smooth dangerous seemed to be easy for him.
Scoring you can argue as one guy did in this. The defense? Federov could have lined up as number one D and competed with Lidstrom and konny for the norris. I mean this.
He was something just different lol. Now did he dog it when left got pay? Was it injuries? I dont know dont want to go into it.
I saw something which was WOW,,, just like Konny was WOW to think something as good or better then lidstrom? Just crazy,,,, We were soooooo good sooo enjoyable to watch
Datyuk might be one of best today D wise forwards,, Federov was best ive seen for a few years. Just a whole nother league. Board play both ends back checking the speed panicking other teams into shooting to quick turning over the puck lol.
So I take Federov yet going by career if entire career as a wing? Stats etc.. who is most important? Is a draw as you see when federov becomes more and more solid on d side his stats drop to play that style as we have shanny and hull to handle scoring etc.. he becomes more responsible etc... Same thing with datsyuk he could score more.
I doubt is a huge difference honestly. The size difference? and will say people were scared more in offensive zone with sergie it seemed than are with paval.
Both first team hall of famers and great wings Paval was better two way game from start of career. Is sad lost years etc..
So wasnt going to vote on that.
My favorite all time player is stevie.
Federov was the best player ive ever seen. When he played up to his capabilities. He had three years where he wasnt a forward he was more defense lol. Unreal his skill level and I mean that. So fast smooth dangerous seemed to be easy for him.
Scoring you can argue as one guy did in this. The defense? Federov could have lined up as number one D and competed with Lidstrom and konny for the norris. I mean this.
He was something just different lol. Now did he dog it when left got pay? Was it injuries? I dont know dont want to go into it.
I saw something which was WOW,,, just like Konny was WOW to think something as good or better then lidstrom? Just crazy,,,, We were soooooo good sooo enjoyable to watch
Datyuk might be one of best today D wise forwards,, Federov was best ive seen for a few years. Just a whole nother league. Board play both ends back checking the speed panicking other teams into shooting to quick turning over the puck lol.
So I take Federov yet going by career if entire career as a wing? Stats etc.. who is most important? Is a draw as you see when federov becomes more and more solid on d side his stats drop to play that style as we have shanny and hull to handle scoring etc.. he becomes more responsible etc... Same thing with datsyuk he could score more.
I doubt is a huge difference honestly. The size difference? and will say people were scared more in offensive zone with sergie it seemed than are with paval.
Both first team hall of famers and great wings
Paval was better two way game from start of career. Is sad lost years etc..
RockemSockemProberts
Stevie's home!
I don't have to much to add to all of the points given in this thread, so I'll just say that it would've been amazing to have Fedorov and Datsyuk on the same line at their respective primes. Just plain sick.
(Mini rant: I really can't stand it when Red Wings fans talk about "Federov." I mean, seriously. Did Federov ever get paired with Lindstrom when he got moved back to D?
)
(Mini rant: I really can't stand it when Red Wings fans talk about "Federov." I mean, seriously. Did Federov ever get paired with Lindstrom when he got moved back to D?
)
icKx
Vanek 4 Prez
It's odd to me that so many consider Feds a "frustrating" player.
"Frustrating" is watching your best players falter when it matters most, whereas Fedorov always elevated his game: the higher the stakes the better he became.
That's the epitome of sporting greatness.
"Frustrating" is watching your best players falter when it matters most, whereas Fedorov always elevated his game: the higher the stakes the better he became.
That's the epitome of sporting greatness.
You have a weird definition of "frustrating."
There's nothing odd about wanting and expecting more consistency from a player who had all the tools and the ability (as shown in 94-96 and many playoffs) to dominate. What if Wayne Gretzky only really put it together for a couple regular seasons.. Do you think his legacy would be identical? Fedorov seemed capable of much more and there's nothing wrong with questioning that. In fact, it's letting his ability off the hook if it wasn't questioned IMO.
icKx
Vanek 4 Prez
And what if he simply wasn't? If his peak play was his norm he'd be a top 10 player of all time.
I don't see anyone questioning Zetterberg's play because he cranks it up a notch when the team needs it. Yet that's exactly what Feds did.
What's frustrating about it? Didn't pad his stats enough? Fedorov is a winner.
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
If Gretzky only had a few great regular seasons it would definitely change the narrative on his career. I guess I don't see how that's relevant to a discussion about Fedorov as both Gretzky and Feds put up numerous great seasons. Sergei was a superior type of player in each of his 13 seasons for the Wings, beginning with his 31G/48A rookie season.
I love Pavel but IMO Sergei was the better goal scorer, overall offensive player, overall defensive player, and better skater. Not to mention a better and more consistent playoff performer. I'll take 91 if I had to choose between the two players.
If you factor in the bigger goalie equipment and less scoring in hockey these days, Datsyuk's production is a little better than Fedorov's was but Fedorov had the advantage of playing before the cap on a stocked team.
Fedorov was often criticized for his effort. Datsyuk is a much classier teammate and better leader by example. He worked hard to make his deficiencies his strengths (leg strength, faceoffs...)
If Fedorov worked as hard, he was blessed with the athletic ability to be better than Datsyuk is but he didn't.
Fedorov was often criticized for his effort. Datsyuk is a much classier teammate and better leader by example. He worked hard to make his deficiencies his strengths (leg strength, faceoffs...)
If Fedorov worked as hard, he was blessed with the athletic ability to be better than Datsyuk is but he didn't.
Shaman464
No u
All I see are fans that probably were fans after 2000, who never really got to see the dominance that Fedorov was. If tomorrow I could take either one at 18 to build a team around it would be Feds 11 times out of 10, that's what you have to ask yourself, if you had to pick one player at 18 to build a team around, who would it be?
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