I agree. But there were a lot of Lindros fanatics (like Crosbyites) who projected their guy as the best of the era before the case was fully made.
Well actually it's a lot of group think and different measures here unless one is only measuring actual peak play.
in reality there is no way that he ahd the msot impact (using that defintion of who was actually the best player in the 90's or whose actual GP and resume would you build a team around) 318 regular season games doesn't cut it using that defintion.
I actually thought about the top center to build a team around for that entire decade and that's why I probably ahve feds higher than most.
Consistent excellent 2 way game regular season and killer in the playoffs too, funny there hasn't been a single mention of him yet.
Well actually it's a lot of group think and different measures here unless one is only measuring actual peak play.
in reality there is no way that he ahd the msot impact (using that defintion of who was actually the best player in the 90's or whose actual GP and resume would you build a team around) 318 regular season games doesn't cut it using that defintion.
I actually thought about the top center to build a team around for that entire decade and that's why I probably ahve feds higher than most.
Consistent excellent 2 way game regular season and killer in the playoffs too, funny there hasn't been a single mention of him yet.
No love for Fedorov and his 93-94 season and four consecutive 20 pt playoffs? No love for Bure?
And I don't think Lemieux was "significantly better" than Hasek.
Forward's regular season total points should be an extremely small part of the big picture and doesn't include the playoffs or dmen and goalies so I'm not trying to make some big profound point at all, but just for the record during this period Gretzky and Yzerman were 1st and 2nd, Sakic and Lemieux were 5th and 6th, Messier was 9th, and Jagr was 12th in regular season total points among forwards....I think with Fedorov the competition is just too tough and he was a guy who coasted too often in the regular season. Plus, as I said with Lindros, who do you take off this list from 1989-'99?
Lemieux, Hasek, Roy, Bourque, Jagr, Gretzky, Messier, Yzerman and then a string of guys like Sakic, Oates, Chelios, even Leetch, among others.
I'm surprised Messier is so high on most of the lists. I remember him bieng dominant in the 80's and early 90's, but not so good in the mid to late 90's. Remember his stint with the Canucks?
Well he was always the "Next One" and we assumed he would pick up that mantle, but he didn't.
I think with Fedorov the competition is just too tough and he was a guy who coasted too often in the regular season. Plus, as I said with Lindros, who do you take off this list from 1989-'99?
Lemieux, Hasek, Roy, Bourque, Jagr, Gretzky, Messier, Yzerman and then a string of guys like Sakic, Oates, Chelios, even Leetch, among others.
Best players by decade: 1990-00
Player
POS
"HHOF Monitor" PTS
Jaromir "Jags" Jagr RW 2642,00
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek G 2151,00
Mario "Super Mario" Lemieux C 2139,50
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky C 1637,70
Ray "Bubba" Bourque D 1633,20
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull RW 1408,45
Teemu "The Finnish Flash" Selanne RW 1365,50
Ed "The Eagle" Belfour G 1243,00
Patrick "St Patrick" Roy G 1214,50
Steve "Stevie Wonder" Yzerman C 1213,00
As for spilts: 1990-95
1990-95 Lemieux Mario C 1214.00
1990-95 Gretzky Wayne C 1184.00
1990-95 Bourque Ray D 1147.85
1990-95 Hull Brett RW 1044.00
1990-95 Belfour Ed G 899.00
1990-95 Roy Patrick G 867.00
1990-95 Jagr Jaromir RW 780.00
1990-95 Stevens Kevin LW 755.50
1990-95 Fedorov Sergei C 716.00
1990-95 Chelios Chris D 663.90
1995-00
1995-00 Jagr Jaromir RW 1862.00
1995-00 Hasek Dominik G 1538.50
1995-00 Selanne Teemu RW 994.00
1995-00 Kariya Paul LW 927.00
1995-00 Lemieux Mario C 925.50
1995-00 Lidstrom Nicklas D 890.60
1995-00 Yzerman Steve C 720.00
1995-00 Forsberg Peter C 670.50
1995-00 Leclair John LW 653.50
1995-00 Brodeur Martin G 627.00
2 Cups and 2 Conn Smythe trophies kind of are a massive argument in Mario's favour. He might have missed a lot of time in the 1990's... but he was so utterly dominant that it just doesn't matter.
Based on this, it would have to be Jagr, Hasek and then Lemieux for the top 3.
HHOF Monitor" PTS is an interesting metric but it doesn't account for defensive play.
I respect the guy who set up the metric but it's more indicative of offensive dominance than it is off overall play.
Jagr is quite clearly the best offensive guy of that decade though.
All three I recall as being other worldly, Mario a hockey god when healthy, Hasek with unparallelled dominance in net for a few seasons, and Jagr a demi-god on everyone's top-3 list for years on end.Based on this, it would have to be Jagr, Hasek and then Lemieux for the top 3.
Well actually it's a lot of group think and different measures here unless one is only measuring actual peak play.
in reality there is no way that he ahd the msot impact (using that defintion of who was actually the best player in the 90's or whose actual GP and resume would you build a team around) 318 regular season games doesn't cut it using that defintion.
I actually thought about the top center to build a team around for that entire decade and that's why I probably ahve feds higher than most.
Consistent excellent 2 way game regular season and killer in the playoffs too, funny there hasn't been a single mention of him yet.
Yeah, that would kinda be like calling someone the best player in the world over the last 3 years despite missing 113 of 212 games.
Who could possibly consider such a thing I wonder?
Oh and just for the record it was 377 games, not 318.
Messier. What a leader.
1990-00
Player | POS | "HHOF Monitor" PTS Jaromir "Jags" Jagr | RW | 2642.00 Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek | G | 2151.00 Mario "Super Mario" Lemieux | C | 2139.50 Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky | C | 1637.70 Ray "Bubba" Bourque | D | 1633.20 Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull | RW | 1408.45 Teemu "The Finnish Flash" Selanne | RW | 1365.50 Ed "The Eagle" Belfour | G | 1243.00 Patrick "St Patrick" Roy | G | 1214.50 Steve "Stevie Wonder" Yzerman | C | 1213.00
LW | "HHOF Monitor" PTS | C | "HHOF Monitor" PTS | RW | "HHOF Monitor" PTS Paul "The Sharpshooter" Kariya | 961.50 | Mario "The Magnificent" Lemieux | 2139.50 | Jaromir "Jags" Jagr | 2642.00 John "Johnny Vermont" Leclair | 921.00 | Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky | 1637.70 | Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull | 1408.45 Kevin "Artie" Stevens | 845.00 | Steve "Stevie Wonder" Yzerman | 1213.00 | Teemu "The Finnish Flash" Selanne | 1365.50 Brendan "Shanny" Shanahan | 795.50 | Sergei "FedEx" Fedorov | 1131.00 | Pavel "The Russian Rocket" Bure | 940.00 | | Mark "Mess" Messier | 1067.00 | |
DEF | "HHOF Monitor" PTS Ray "Bubba" Bourque | 1633.20 Chris "Cheli" Chelios | 1141.40 Brian "Leetchie" Leetch | 1107.85 Nicklas "Lidas" Lidstrom | 1055.75 Scott "Captain Crunch" Stevens | 945.05 Al "Chopper" Macinnis | 777.85 Chris "Prongs" Pronger | 648.20
G | "HHOF Monitor" PTS Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek | 2151.00 Ed "The Eagle" Belfour | 1243.00 Patrick "St Patrick" Roy | 1214.50
Cant for the life of me understand how I forgot Selänne and Lidström
Was Lidstrom really a superstar in the 90's? I always felt that he really got great after 96/97. Granted, two years of excellent elite play and I know he was underrated in beginning of his career. I am just not sure Lidstrom exploded early enough to make my top-10. Selanne is a borderline and he had three years of excellent elite play and few more great/elite play.
From 97-11 Lidstrom is easily the best player on planet tough. No contest.
Yeah, that would kinda be like calling someone the best player in the world over the last 3 years despite missing 113 of 212 games.
Who could possibly consider such a thing I wonder?
Oh and just for the record it was 377 games, not 318.