Who should the Canucks target as their next GM?

[Horse McHindu]

Aaaaand nothing but silence

@MadaCanuckle
@The Extrapolater
@ErrantShepherd

I don’t think Gillis was a bad GM, but I don’t see him as a God either (as I do Yzerman for instance ).

The good that Gillis did here is well documented, and I’ve echoed those sentiments repeatedly:

1) brought in an awesome cast of complementary players to complement the main core players that Burke had brought in,
2) recognized and implemented sleeping and meal regimens to help accommodate the relative brutal travel schedules that the Canucks always face.
3) helped players sign in Vancouver at discounted cap hits (big double-edged sword here as has been proven over time with guys like the twins and Edler, but ownership’s mandate to Gillis was to build a cup winner and so I’ll give this one to Gillis).
4) Some major Pro Scouting wins pre 2011 (ie see point #1).
5) Encouraging defensemen to get in on the rush and implementing an innovative style of hockey.

For all those reasons, I thought Gillis did a good job while he was here. However - this is where I thought he failed......which is why my ultimate grade of Gillis is that of a “good” GM and not a “great” one.

1) Drafting. The Canucks has absolute zero in the way of prospects during Gillis’ time. Ben Hutton. That’s pretty much it. We got Horvat by trading a premium asset in Schneider. Robbing Peter to pay Paul (or as my fellow Hindu’s would say, robbing Pranesh to pay Parjivan). Want to know why we beat San Jose in 2011 while getting swept by them two years later? It’s because San Jose reinvented themselves and had prospects from the system come up. Vancouver? Was as stale as a wet fart.

2) Mishandling of Luongo/Schneider. If Gillis recognized a need to rebuild after the 2012 loss to the Kings, then one of these guys should have been traded that summer. If teams weren’t biting on Luongo’s contract (largely because Gillis’ asking price was insanely high), then Schneider should have been moved. Period. Instead - this management regime extended Schneider and then said, “don’t worry Corey - we’ll get rid of the ‘other guy.’ You’re our number one now.” The way this management group treated Luongo was ridiculous and insulting.

3) We can’t move Edler right now because of that NTC.

Those are just a few of my gripes that I’ve already mentioned before.

I thought the Hodgson for Kassian deal was “weird,” and I wasn’t a fan of the David Booth trade or the 2nd for Derek Roy trade when it was clear that the Canucks were a jaded group at that time.

Now having said all that - I listened to Gillis on Team 1040 last (November?) and he seems to have learned from his mistakes (ie he should have replaced our amateur scouting much earlier). That is one reason why I wouldn’t mind seeing Gillis come back here.

1) Could be a great PR move if Vancouver fans are told, “we’re going back to our glory days.”
2) Gillis seems to have learned from his mistakes and so it’s possible that he’d be a “great” GM this time around instead of a “good” one.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I hope they think a little bit outside the box whoever they end up hiring, don't keep recycling all these donkeys who somehow keep getting hired despite horrendous track records.

Watch Frankie hire Chiarelli lol

Aquilini has yet to hire a GM that was a GM before coming to VAN.

For him, hiring a tenured GM is thinking outside of the box.

Ken Holland might be the most overrated GM in the league. He inherited a President Trophy calibre team in 1997, and also inherited his European Scouting Guru Hakan Andersson who was responsible for the Wings drafting Tomas Holmström, Valtteri Filppula, Jiri Hudler, Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Johan Franzén, Niklas Kronwall, Jonathan Ericsson, Gustav Nyquist, and Tomáš Tatar amongst others.

The stars aligned for Ken Holland. There is no reason to think that they would again if he was hired by the Canucks.

Who hired Hakan and who emphasized European scouting during that era again...?

Ken Holland made the stars align for himself. To go 20+ years without missing the playoffs is no small feat. It takes aptitude.

Recognize competence when you see it.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

@MadaCanuckle
@The Extrapolater

For all those reasons, I thought Gillis did a good job while he was here. However - this is where I thought he failed......which is why my ultimate grade of Gillis is that of a “good” GM and not a “great” one.

1) Drafting. The Canucks has absolute zero in the way of prospects during Gillis’ time. Ben Hutton. That’s pretty much it. We got Horvat by trading a premium asset in Schneider. Robbing Peter to pay Paul (or as my fellow Hindu’s would say, robbing Pranesh to pay Parjivan). Want to know why we beat San Jose in 2011 while getting swept by them two years later? It’s because San Jose reinvented themselves and had prospects from the system come up. Vancouver? Was as stale as a wet fart.

2) Mishandling of Luongo/Schneider. If Gillis recognized a need to rebuild after the 2012 loss to the Kings, then one of these guys should have been traded that summer. If teams weren’t biting on Luongo’s contract (largely because Gillis’ asking price was insanely high), then Schneider should have been moved. Period. Instead - this management regime extended Schneider and then said, “don’t worry Corey - we’ll get rid of the ‘other guy.’ You’re our number one now.” The way this management group treated Luongo was ridiculous and insulting.

3) We can’t move Edler right now because of that NTC.

Those are just a few of my gripes that I’ve already mentioned before.

I thought the Hodgson for Kassian deal was “weird,” and I wasn’t a fan of the David Booth trade or the 2nd for Derek Roy trade when it was clear that the Canucks were a jaded group at that time.

Now having said all that - I listened to Gillis on Team 1040 last (November?) and he seems to have learned from his mistakes (ie he should have replaced our amateur scouting much earlier). That is one reason why I wouldn’t mind seeing Gillis come back here.

1) Could be a great PR move if Vancouver fans are told, “we’re going back to our glory days.”
2) Gillis seems to have learned from his mistakes and so it’s possible that he’d be a “great” GM this time around instead of a “good” one.

1) Can we compare the quality of the draft picks Benning had/has at his disposal than those Gillis had? The higher one was 9 and he absolutely nailed it. Benning has 6,5,5 and 7, and this year will be similar. 5 top 8 picks. Gillis picked outside of top 8 in his entire tenure. He missed a lot in the middle/late round picks, but how much do we have to show right now? Gaudette! A 5th rounder, like Hutton. Taken into perspective, I don't know how do you can make it as a huge negative. Period.

By the way, other goalies who fetched a 1st rounder are Martin Jones and Varlamov. That says a lot.

2) It was widely reported that Luongo was almost in Toronto so, for some reason, that trade went sideways. And you should have a high asking price to negotiate a fair deal, not like the moron we have as a GM right now, who always appear to settle for the first offer that he receives.
However, it is funny that you point out two things that you use as an excuse for Benning:
- Asset management, which Benning is horrendous, and this is not for debate.
- Aquilini Meddling : it is common sense to justify the inability of Benning's proper rebuild with Aquilini's meddling. DId ever occur to you that Gillis had the same problem?
About the player's treatment, i wonder how Hamhuis or Tryamkin feel... but if you choose to ignore some clear cases, it is your choice.

3) Bieksa had a NMC. Garrisson had a NMC. That's a poor excuse, period.

Your post must be incompleted because there's a lot of unanswered questions. As usual, you will ignore those you can't find asinine excuses to justify Benning's shortcomings.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Bieksa and Garrison...are we still talking about these guys...Yawn...!

 

[NeoCanuck]

GIVE ME FERRARO OR GIVE ME DEATH

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I love Ferraro!! He’s likeable, says it how it is and knows what he’s talking about it. If he was involved in some way, shape or form I’d be onboard!

 

[Bubbles]

GIVE ME FERRARO OR GIVE ME DEATH

I'll take Death.

You might as well make Pierre McGuire and Nick Kypreos as assistant GMs...

 

[tantalum]

I'll take Death.

You might as well make Pierre McGuire and Nick Kypreos as assistant GMs...

Death would still be better than Benning....

I think Ferraro has some decent insights and I enjoy listening to him. But unless there is something I'm not seeing in his resume he isn't qualified to be GM.

 

[Peter10]

Death would still be better than Benning....

I think Ferraro has some decent insights and I enjoy listening to him. But unless there is something I'm not seeing in his resume he isn't qualified to be GM.

He said himself that he would not take a GM job but is rather interested in an assistant position to learn the trade.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I know Yzerman is a pipe dream, even if Frankie threw a boatload of cash at him. So please bring back Gilman. We need to bring intelligence back to this team.

 

[vanarchy]

GIVE ME FERRARO OR GIVE ME DEATH

I like this guys passion. NeoCanuck for GM.

Also, what are people's thoughts on Bowman? Too old school of a mindset for the current league?

 

[Krnuckfan]

I love Ferraro!! He’s likeable, says it how it is and knows what he’s talking about it. If he was involved in some way, shape or form I’d be onboard!

No to ferraro. I mean Benning is such a moron that a guy like ferraro would be a massive upgrade but he just doesn't have the resume to be a GM. He has zero experience working in the front office of any hockey organization, let alone in the NHL. He's not a scout, doesn't deal with agents, doesn't understand the CBA, doesn't have negotiating experience, etc. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in the front office in some capacity but definitely not as the head guy.

 

[brokenhole]

No to ferraro. I mean Benning is such a moron that a guy like ferraro would be a massive upgrade but he just doesn't have the resume to be a GM. He has zero experience working in the front office of any hockey organization, let alone in the NHL. He's not a scout, doesn't deal with agents, doesn't understand the CBA, doesn't have negotiating experience, etc. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in the front office in some capacity but definitely not as the head guy.

How do you know Ferraro doesn't understand a lot of those things? bit of a reach there. Christ Benning had front office time in Boston and most of your post described him to a tee.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

No to ferraro. I mean Benning is such a moron that a guy like ferraro would be a massive upgrade but he just doesn't have the resume to be a GM. He has zero experience working in the front office of any hockey organization, let alone in the NHL. He's not a scout, doesn't deal with agents, doesn't understand the CBA, doesn't have negotiating experience, etc. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in the front office in some capacity but definitely not as the head guy.

I didn’t say as GM... just involved in some way. But we need someone who others respect. To me it seems like Benning is a joke to others too.

 

[MikeK]

I know Yzerman is a pipe dream, even if Frankie threw a boatload of cash at him. So please bring back Gilman. We need to bring intelligence back to this team.

Absolutely. I'm all for fresh blood but we need to bring some level of competence back into the front office. No more learning on the job candidates. Give us people who know what the F* their doing.

 

[Krnuckfan]

How do you know Ferraro doesn't understand a lot of those things? bit of a reach there. Christ Benning had front office time in Boston and most of your post described him to a tee.

Because he's had zero experience doing any of those things? How is that a reach? He's been working for TSN and calling games.

Benning only had experience with the amateur scouting side. He wasn't involved in any of contract negotiations or understanding the CBA at all when he became GM and it clearly shows.

 

[RandV]

I like this guys passion. NeoCanuck for GM.

Also, what are people's thoughts on Bowman? Too old school of a mindset for the current league?

I don't know, as GM he'd be an upgrade on Benning at least and sometimes you can put these dinosaurs in new positions and they succeed. But if you're talking about someone like Bowman it's probably better to make them President with the directive of hiring a younger/more progressive GM.

 

[4Twenty]

Death would still be better than Benning....

I think Ferraro has some decent insights and I enjoy listening to him. But unless there is something I'm not seeing in his resume he isn't qualified to be GM.

Do you think he would do any worse than Benning has? Ray is at least intelligent and understands the league, it's trends and how good teams are built. I don't want him as GM, but he'd be better than Benning just based on not being stuck in 1987.

 

[RandV]

Because he's had zero experience doing any of those things? How is that a reach? He's been working for TSN and calling games.

Benning only had experience with the amateur scouting side. He wasn't involved in any of contract negotiations or understanding the CBA at all when he became GM and it clearly shows.

I haven't paid much attention to him but I think what you see with Ferraro is a former NHL player/TV analyst saying the right things that make a lot of sense to the modern fan. But that's just doing the things that any of us can do from the peanut gallery, it doesn't mean though you could throw him straight into the GM hot seat and he'd be able to effectively manage an entire organization.

And it sounds like he knows it if he's saying if he got the opportunity he'd prefer to start with a lower placed role in management.

 

[MikeK]

Do you think he would do any worse than Benning has? Ray is at least intelligent and understands the league, it's trends and how good teams are built. I don't want him as GM, but he'd be better than Benning just based on not being stuck in 1987.

This is the perfect example of just how low the bar and expectations are for this team that we're arguing in favor of Ferraro because he couldn't possibly be worse than Benning.

In no way shape or form is Ferraro qualified to be a GM. I don't care how good his ideas sound on TSN. There is far more that goes into being a GM than just having good ideas. The last thing we need is another person learning the job on the fly and needing the NHL office to flat out ask if we need expalining or know the rules... like what literally happened to Benning 2 years ago.

 

[4Twenty]

This is the perfect example of just how low the bar and expectations are for this team that we're arguing in favor of Ferraro because he couldn't possibly be worse than Benning.

In no way shape or form is Ferraro qualified to be a GM. I don't care how good his ideas sound on TSN. There is far more that goes into being a GM than just having good ideas. The last thing we need is another person learning the job on the fly and needing the NHL office to flat out ask if we need expalining or know the rules... like what literally happened to Benning 2 years ago.

Oh, for sure. I agree with everything you've written here. But I just think Ferraro would be smart enough to insulate himself with people who know what they're doing....like Shanahan.

I'm not advocating for Ferraro as GM at all, just to be clear.

 

[MikeK]

Oh, for sure. I agree with everything you've written here. But I just think Ferraro would be smart enough to insulate himself with people who know what they're doing....like Shanahan.

I'm not advocating for Ferraro as GM at all, just to be clear.

The problem I have with this is that Shanahan isn't the GM and wasn't a TV personality when he was hired. He held a position within the NHL head office and at least had some idea on how the day to day operations were. Ferraro has none of that.

Ferraro is the type of guy a qualified GM brings in. Not the other way around.

 

[tantalum]

Do you think he would do any worse than Benning has? Ray is at least intelligent and understands the league, it's trends and how good teams are built. I don't want him as GM, but he'd be better than Benning just based on not being stuck in 1987.

I don’t think he’d be worse. He’d likely be better just like a potato or a forum poll would be better than Benning. Still wouldn’t be qualified IMO.

Btw I really want to see a team run based on polls from knowledgeable posters. It’d be an interesting though impossible experiment.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Who hired Hakan and who emphasized European scouting during that era again...?

Ken Holland made the stars align for himself. To go 20+ years without missing the playoffs is no small feat. It takes aptitude.

Recognize competence when you see it.

I’m not sure who hired Hakan, but it wasn’t Ken Holland. Hakan joined the Redwings in 1990.

You do realize that Ken Holland became GM of the redwings after they won a Stanley Cup in 1997 and two President Trophies the two years previous?

Ken Holland didn’t build that dynasty and he maintained it by drafting the players a scout he didn’t hire recommended.

You should look deeper than a candidate’s win/loss record in a previous job when considering this topic. Sather in New York and Chiarelli in Edmonton are the type of hires that result from your simplistic type of evaluation.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I’m not sure who hired Hakan, but it wasn’t Ken Holland. Hakan joined the Redwings in 1990.

You do realize that Ken Holland became GM of the redwings after they won a Stanley Cup in 1997 and two President Trophies the two years previous?

Ken Holland didn’t build that dynasty and he maintained it by drafting the players a scout he didn’t hire recommended.

You should look deeper than a candidate’s win/loss record in a previous job when considering this topic. Sather in New York and Chiarelli in Edmonton are the type of hires that result from your simplistic type of evaluation.

How much do you think your opinion is worth when you attribute Holland's entire success to luck? Regardless of what he inherited, to keep a team in the playoffs for over 20 years speaks to his talent. Only SJ has been able to repeat that feat in recent times.

Before being promoted to GM, Holland was the Director of Amateur Scouting for 7 years and the AGM for 3 years, prior to becoming GM in 1997. Which means, he was Director of Amateur Scouting in 1990... Are you still sure it wasn't Ken Holland who hired Hakan Andersson, per the recommendation of Christer Rockstrom?

It doesn't matter what a GM is given, it's what a GM does with what he is given that matters. On that front, Ken Holland towers over many GMs in the game today. Recency bias doesn't overturn that opinion for me. Maybe it does for you?