Speculation: Who Should Detroit Pick at 4th?

[newfy]

If the answer is no, I don't want him at 4th.

WHat if the answer was theres a 65% chance hes a center? or 75%?

Just curious what the number is to risk his skill level vs him being a winger in order to pick him?

Wouldn’t dislike Perfetti, but to me Rossi is the safer pick for center, and has a higher ceiling

Definitely safer pick, definitely not higher ceiling though

 

[MBH]

WHat if the answer was theres a 65% chance hes a center? or 75%?

Just curious what the number is to risk his skill level vs him being a winger in order to pick him?

It's a good question.
But you go with your gut. So that's on Stevie and his staff.
I personally don't know enough about Perfetti, his history, his family build, his commitment levels, etc.
I have heard he's more effective at center than wing.
But does that mean he should be a center in the NHL? Or does that mean he'll be a less effective version of himself if he shifts to wing.

Something about Perfetti reminds me a little bit of Nyquist.
I always wondered of Nyquist should have been a C.

 

[MBH]

Who do you think would provide a greater impact in this draft? Nylander did score 31 goals and put up 59 pts in 68 games this year. I mean... realistically... it's kind of hard to expect a lot more than that when you are drafting in the 4 slot.

Nylander gets shit on a lot.
But that play he made on the 3-3 goal in game 4... not a lot of guys can make that play.

If I was Toronto, I'd trade Matthews and go Tavares-Nylander as my 1-2 centers.

 

[Gniwder]

Huge over-exaggeration. His coach would not have lined up at as many games at center as he did if his defense was as bad as you suggest,

In juniors the coach takes the best forwards and sticks them at center. AA was a center.

 

[Bench]

Something about Perfetti reminds me a little bit of Nyquist.
I always wondered of Nyquist should have been a C.

Nyquist was considered on the smaller size physically and thus played wing even in college. That is to say, he played a more skilled perimeter game than the kind of work a center usually does. Or at least the kind of work a coach WANTS the center to do.

That should help frame some of the discussion around all these 5'11" and smaller guys we're debating at center. I don't think it's as easy a transition as folks think at the NHL level.

Smaller frame boys can survive at NHL center, but I don't know if I want Mike Ribeiro out there for the Wings. Doesn't feel like like a winning play, even if the offense is great. That's where so much of my hesitation comes from.

 

[raymond23]

Perfetti is a winger at the next level but his offensive potential is just too elite for me to pass up on him. He is going to be an ELITE offensive catalyst, regardless of which position he ends up playing. At least that's what I see when I watch him.

 

[Frk It]

It's a good question.
But you go with your gut. So that's on Stevie and his staff.
I personally don't know enough about Perfetti, his history, his family build, his commitment levels, etc.
I have heard he's more effective at center than wing.
But does that mean he should be a center in the NHL? Or does that mean he'll be a less effective version of himself if he shifts to wing.

Something about Perfetti reminds me a little bit of Nyquist.
I always wondered of Nyquist should have been a C.

Stutzle reminded me of Nyquist the first time I saw him play.

 

[Frk It]

Nyquist was considered on the smaller size physically and thus played wing even in college. That is to say, he played a more skilled perimeter game than the kind of work a center usually does. Or at least the kind of work a coach WANTS the center to do.

That should help frame some of the discussion around all these 5'11" and smaller guys we're debating at center. I don't think it's as easy a transition as folks think at the NHL level.

Smaller frame boys can survive at NHL center, but I don't know if I want Mike Ribeiro out there for the Wings. Doesn't feel like like a winning play, even if the offense is great. That's where so much of my hesitation comes from.

Unless he makes pretty significant steps with his skating, Perfetti should be played on the wing. I don’t have issues he will only play on the perimeter. He can manipulate defenders really well and plays super fast, even if his feet aren’t. He can get to the high danger areas a good amount.

 

[Bench]

He can manipulate defenders really well and plays super fast, even if his feet aren’t. He can get to the high danger areas a good amount.

Yeah, I absolutely love that in a player. He's undeniably an exciting prospect.

 

[Dotter]

Nylander gets shit on a lot.
But that play he made on the 3-3 goal in game 4... not a lot of guys can make that play.

If I was Toronto, I'd trade Matthews and go Tavares-Nylander as my 1-2 centers.

Sure you would.... this just proves why "keyboard GMs" are just that.

 

[deca guard]

hoping to trade back with jersey for the 7th and 20th , dont know what we would have to add though . then draft either sanderson or lundell 7 , holloway 20 . i want a power team , thats what wins in playoffs . and theres no power type guy at 4

 

[FabricDetails]

Unless he makes pretty significant steps with his skating, Perfetti should be played on the wing. I don’t have issues he will only play on the perimeter. He can manipulate defenders really well and plays super fast, even if his feet aren’t. He can get to the high danger areas a good amount.

Could just start out on the wing like the last few awesome centers the Wings have had.

 

[MBH]

Sure you would.... this just proves why "keyboard GMs" are just that.

You've got 40M tied up in 4 forwards.
3 of them can play center (maybe even 4).
Tavares has an NMC. He's not going anywhere.
So now it's down to Matthews, Marner, Nylander.
Nylander doesn't save you much cap space.

So now, Matthews and Marner.
Which guy do you think brings back the huge return?

 

[lilidk]

hoping to trade back with jersey for the 7th and 20th , dont know what we would have to add though . then draft either sanderson or lundell 7 , holloway 20 . i want a power team , thats what wins in playoffs . and theres no power type guy at 4

Not going to happen. I am sure Yzerman , just like other GM, will know who is the best at 4. They will have time to figure out before draft

 

[Bench]

You've got 40M tied up in 4 forwards.
3 of them can play center (maybe even 4).
Tavares has an NMC. He's not going anywhere.
So now it's down to Matthews, Marner, Nylander.
Nylander doesn't save you much cap space.

So now, Matthews and Marner.
Which guy do you think brings back the huge return?

This is basically what Boston did with Kessel. And then again with Seguin.

In the long run, Boston came out ahead, although that Seguin trade was a little dicey. But I think they had the right idea.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

All in on Perfetti. So I'm prepared for the heart break of when we take Sanderson or something.

 

[Killerjas]

Fairly sure Ottawa selects Stutzle with the 3rd overall pick. I am fine with Perfetti, eventhough I don't think he projects and as a centre. Then Ottawa selects Drysdale with the 5th overall pick.

If by some miracle Ottawa does not select Stutzle, we HAVE to select Stutzle.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Fairly sure Ottawa selects Stutzle with the 3rd overall pick. I am fine with Perfetti, eventhough I don't think he projects and as a centre. Then Ottawa selects Drysdale with the 5th overall pick.

If by some miracle Ottawa does not select Stutzle, we HAVE to select Stutzle.

Indeed.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You've got 40M tied up in 4 forwards.
3 of them can play center (maybe even 4).
Tavares has an NMC. He's not going anywhere.
So now it's down to Matthews, Marner, Nylander.
Nylander doesn't save you much cap space.

So now, Matthews and Marner.
Which guy do you think brings back the huge return?

Matthews brings back a better return, sure, but good luck selling that trade to your fanbase of dealing your #1OA pick who has been nothing but your best player since you took him. And also, Matthews was quite possibly the only player in that CBJ series who wasn’t an embarrassment of soft hockey. He was the best player on the ice most nights.

That said also, I think Marner might actually return something close. Both are signed long term, with Marner having an extra year at about a million less per year. Both are in the stratosphere where you would get a huge return if they were available.

I think even though Matthews undeniably would pull more assets in a trade, his value to Toronto over Marner’s overshadows the difference in what the respective returns would be.

Trading Marner probably puts you in the top pairing D range in a pure hockey trade but more likely multiple firsts and a prospect or two as you are trading them to save cap, not get equal talent. Matthews adds what to that trade over Marner? Another first maybe?

 

[jkutswings]

Matthews brings back a better return, sure, but good luck selling that trade to your fanbase of dealing your #1OA pick who has been nothing but your best player since you took him. And also, Matthews was quite possibly the only player in that CBJ series who wasn’t an embarrassment of soft hockey. He was the best player on the ice most nights.

That said also, I think Marner might actually return something close. Both are signed long term, with Marner having an extra year at about a million less per year. Both are in the stratosphere where you would get a huge return if they were available.

I think even though Matthews undeniably would pull more assets in a trade, his value to Toronto over Marner’s overshadows the difference in what the respective returns would be.

Trading Marner probably puts you in the top pairing D range in a pure hockey trade but more likely multiple firsts and a prospect or two as you are trading them to save cap, not get equal talent. Matthews adds what to that trade over Marner? Another first maybe?

Then shop both and see if you get any offers you can't refuse. Yes, dealing Matthews would be painful, but if it's Cup or bust and you find a team that throws the sun and moon at you to build a better overall roster, I'd do it, as opposed to another 5-10 years of 1st/2nd round exits before rebuilding again anyway.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Then shop both and see if you get any offers you can't refuse. Yes, dealing Matthews would be painful, but if it's Cup or bust and you find a team that throws the sun and moon at you to build a better overall roster, I'd do it, as opposed to another 5-10 years of 1st/2nd round exits before rebuilding again anyway.

This is just where I'd disagree. I think trading Matthews is more than painful. He's the only one of the four who isn't Charmin soft. Tavares would have been the best piece to deal if he wasn't NTC'd. Of course you listen. You listen on literally any player you ever have on your roster. But as GM, I'd do whatever to hold onto Auston Matthews. Marner would be an easier get from me.

 

[jkutswings]

This is just where I'd disagree. I think trading Matthews is more than painful. He's the only one of the four who isn't Charmin soft. Tavares would have been the best piece to deal if he wasn't NTC'd. Of course you listen. You listen on literally any player you ever have on your roster. But as GM, I'd do whatever to hold onto Auston Matthews. Marner would be an easier get from me.

I don't disagree with any of that. Just making the point that, no matter how lofty my trade requirements are, that's still different than saying anybody is completely untouchable. And Toronto isn't winning anything without a shake up, so for me nobody is completely untouchable.

Had the Leafs gotten Lafreniere, I would have prepacked Marner's bags and traded for a defenseman ASAP, but you play the hand you're dealt, so I'd at least listen to offers for anybody.

 

[Winger98]

You've got 40M tied up in 4 forwards.
3 of them can play center (maybe even 4).
Tavares has an NMC. He's not going anywhere.
So now it's down to Matthews, Marner, Nylander.
Nylander doesn't save you much cap space.

So now, Matthews and Marner.
Which guy do you think brings back the huge return?

The thing with Matthews and Marner is that they will likely force the Leafs to take some cap back in a deal. Nylander doesn't have a small deal, but it's a lot more movable than the other two. Outside of just going out and getting a couple of contracts to bury on LTIR and artificially raise their cap ceiling, I don't see any move for Toronto that doesn't involve one of their top forwards.

Of course, they could just say to hell with it and run a D of Reilly, Muzzin, and some kids.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Fairly sure Ottawa selects Stutzle with the 3rd overall pick. I am fine with Perfetti, eventhough I don't think he projects and as a centre. Then Ottawa selects Drysdale with the 5th overall pick.

If by some miracle Ottawa does not select Stutzle, we HAVE to select Stutzle.

I'm sure this will upset people, but even if Stutzle falls, I'm still taking Perfetti.

I can't get over how one dimensional Stutzle looks offensively to me personally. He really demands the puck on his stick, he often follows the path of least resistance directing him to the perimeter, and often holds the puck as long as it takes him to find a passing lane. I don't see enough of a shooting mentality, and I don't see enough desire from him to cut to the center of the ice in the offensive zone. I can see someone who potentially can have a lot of possession die on his stick when defenders are able to take away his time and space, close lanes, and the ice shrinks taking away his escape routes. Just my two cents.

 

[Henkka]

The thing with Matthews and Marner is that they will likely force the Leafs to take some cap back in a deal..

Matthews for Nielsen and Abdelkader for Marner.

Done deal.